T3D Basic Release

#1 A database with Torque Script commands? What you mean Jaimi?

#2 Sorry - That's what I get for typing in a hurry.
What I mean is, just as an example, is the user adding Database support (for example, to postgres, sql server, etc), and then having the ability to add torquescript functions to access them - or adding new GUI controls, etc.

#3 Ah! right, got it now.
Yes, a Basic, yet extendable version sounds interesting!

#4 From what the list mentiones on the page and on a few threads, no expanding capabilities or anything alike for Basic Users. They also can't use Genre Kits.

Fixed construct for modding only.

#5 Last I heard the Basic version was looking less likely to see the light of day.

Also I'm not sure how it would work anyway I mean How are you going to have it pre-compiled? Would that require moving all of the Editor Code to a separate DLL or something? I don't think that is the way it is now. Is it?

#6 @James - It wouldn't require much change at all to ship it that way. Right now, we compile a DLL with our App, and our new source is supposed to be in our main project. The only difference would be that they would ship the lib and DLL prebuilt. It seems like they left it open to ship the Basic version that way on purpose, if they so chose.

#7 Basic is indeed being considered for entry into the wood chipper, at least in it's planned incarnation. Alternatively, we're considering a binary only, but full featured option at a bit higher price point ($500). I was actually thinking of taking a survey on some of the options we've brainstormed next week.

#8 Would this binary only, but full featured license allow those of us who have the source code distribute our EXEs based on modified source with editors to those with that license? My main concern is not having to make my artists that need to be able to edit missions and terrain but wont have anything to do with coding have to buy a professional license.

#9 I'm interested to see what GG does with this but the way in which the "basic" option is implemented won't deter me from using T3D however it's done.

I would be very interested in seeing some kind of modeler / level designer version, not intended for publishing a game but to act as a stand-alone artist / level design package. DSO generation could be disabled in the exe and the package could be shipped with only the compiled scripts (the .dso files), as well as a license restriction of not being able to distribute any of the included code files (exe, dlls or compiled scripts) for use in a game.

#10 Bring on the survey. Binary only option sounds interesting. Upgrade option on that one as well I guess would be the next question. (To it and then from it to the full)

#11 basic or "full" version, I still feel we should be able to release a game with tools included.
the exe's that we release, plus the dso's, will label/brand the product that we release, and allow our customers to create mods that could not concievably be called "their own game", they would just be mods of the labeled/branded original.
mod-ability is a huuuuge selling point for many games.
maybe there is some way to put the tools all into a dll?
dunno,
but the stance of not being able to release our product with tools should really be reconsidered.

#12 yep, yep. If you want someone to finally make a real Blockbuster of a game with T3D, you *need* to have modability!

#13 If any of you need to ship tools with your game, I'm sure GarageGames can do something for you.
It has been stated many times, that they are looking forward to work with us (customers), so I think it would be nice idea to contact them for a special license (licensing [at] garagegames [dot] com).
I know that special licenses works, so, if you need it (for shipping tools) badly, ask for it. It doesn't hurt.

#14 thats the whole point.
we shouldn't HAVE to ask for it, it should idealy, be available.

#15

About tools

there's nothing preventing anyone from creating new "modding" tools or even forward porting the old Creator is there? I can understand GG's desire to protect their new awesome Tools, and as Fyodor mentioned it certainly doesn't hurt to ask....

About Basic versus Professional

Why not have two Basic versions? One having limited functionality/feature-set (eg, not having all of the tools), no source code, and priced significantly less than Professional. Then also have another which would be an "Artist" version, full tools, no source, and priced midway between Demo and Professional (the $500 that Brett mentions). Anyone with a "Artist" version would be able to use a new exe/dll from a programmer on a team. A "cheap" artist could still get by with the "Demo" version if their only need is to test assets in-game. Programmers would still be required to have the full "Professional" version per seat.

Perhaps some other nomenclature altogether to differentiate between the differing versions?

#16 Or perhaps let us go back to the original model for the professional version - We can distribute tools to our artist without having a separate license.
I personally couldn't give a ..um hoot.. About distributing modding tools to end users. 99% of games don't come with them, and I personally don't have the time or resources to support their usage anyway. Team members come and go, especially when you're an indie, and I'm not particularly keen on purchasing a license just to never hear from them again after a week or a month.

#17 @Jaimi - you make a good point about indie team members. Before I linked up with the art team I have working for me now I tried working with many different artists (ALWAYS on paid contracts) -- all of them (with the exception of the current team) either never completed the work, didn't complete the work on time, or, most often, simply disappeared or stopped responding to emails. Fortunately I didn't lose much money on these guys since nearly all agreed to the work and then simply disappear before doing anything or getting paid.

This isn't necessarily GG's concern, but to accomodate (I'm assuming) a large part of their customer base it would be good to keep this in mind.

#18

Quote:thats the whole point.
we shouldn't HAVE to ask for it, it should idealy, be available.

Would potentially add more confusion if there was another $5000+ license on the store that allowed you modding redistribution.
Also it would be kind of troublesome as you likely need to sign a specific contract on what you share and what not, because since T3D has no free modding version anymore, you are likely not allowed to just open up its scripting end to end users.