New beta tomorrow

#1 Nice one David,

Do you have a list of thing you would like us to test specifically ?

I have had a couple of issues, but not found the time to write them
down effectively (in an easy to reproduce way).
I'll do my best to get that done once you release the next beta.

Cheers,

Hewster.

#2 Really, at this point we are just looking for show stoppers. There is a known issue with the Max Collada exporter that messes up sub-materials, but if you are using Max then export as .ASE and you'll be fine.

#3 Well, let us know of anything large or small that you encounter.

As for specifics:
-Give importing in collada into preLIGHT another try. It should work considerably better now. The smoothing group information can now be recovered from the collada files, so that is no longer an issue. The single matrix option shouldn't be necessary anymore.

If you run into any problematic meshes, send us a copy of the collada file and let us know which modelling program/exporter you used. An ase or obj file to compare against would be helpful as well.

-Let us know of any scaling issues. These should all be worked out now. You can set a default scene scale now in preLIGHT, so you should only have it set it up once.

-Try importing your baked pureLIGHT scene into Torque3D.

-Try combining lightmaps and dynamic lighting within Torque3D. Though this falls more in the realm of Torque3D itself than pureLIGHT, we are very interested in making sure that it works correctly and we can help you out with any related issues.


If you have suggestions for improvement/new features those are always welcome too. (enjoy your mouse wheel movement support Hewster :) )

#4 New beta is being sent out. If I miss you let me know.

#5 Hi guys,

Got the latest beta, will give it a though whirl tonight :)

@Thomas.. loving the mouse wheel movement , thankyou, I would say
however, its sensitivity is a magnitude larger than the normal movement,
If, for instance, I have my normal speed set to 5, to get a comparable
speed on the wheel, I have to set to 1.(admittedly my mouse is set to scroll
3 lines at once)

Also, a bug I noticed a while ago, but haven't posted, is that it
seems if you press 'half lightmapsize' twice in succession, Prelight
will crash, and will continue to crash on that lightmap when restarting
and attempting to half lightmap, until you manually adjust the texel
size.

Also, it seems the displayed lightmap data in prelight isn't correct.
It seems, sometimes, if I press 'find optimal texel size', and lets say
it selects 10, if I change that to 20 and then back to 10 again, the
lightmap preview is different, and sometimes a different lightmap size
all together.

I am prepared to video capture the above, if you need better info
(always hard describing something, much better to watch :) )

hmm.. maybe I should have made a separate post with the above.

Cheers,

Hewster

#6 Hmm, I'll take a look at those Hewster. I can tune the sensitivity of the mouse wheel movement a bit.

Update:
-The half lightmap size bug is fixed now.

#7 missed me David!

#8 @Thomas... that was a quick fix... missed you update there.

Could I possibly request a feature ?

I think it would be nice to be able to set a mesh to NOT receive ambient
lighting.
I can supply shots of why I think it would be a nice feature, but
wonder if you might be able to guess why (think house with windows in
strong midday sunlight + ambient = washed out shadows outside the house,
when you up ambient enough to get enough lighting inside the house)

Cheers,

Hewster

#9 Actually...after playing with the models in T3D a bit...I need to record a
vid to explain... will try do that later...

#10 Hmm, I wonder what a mesh would look like without any ambient lighting. I suspect it would look out of place with everything else.

You could try turning up the number of indirect bounces to allow. That should get some more light bouncing around inside the house itself, brightening it up.

#11 ok..

Here is a pic of 6 models, rendered in T3D with advancedLightmapSupport on,
the value of ambient used in PL is overlayed on each model.
The only lighting in the scene is the sun (not skattersky) with a value of 1.5
and set as not represented in lightmap
Note the overbright terrain (bug in advancedLightmapSupport .. to be reported)


Next image is with the sun AS represented in lightmap



The models look very 'flat' when the sun is represented in lightmap.


Ok, now for how these models look in PL:

Ambient = 0.. from outside...

Ambient = 0.. from inside...


Ambient = 1.. from outside...

Ambient = 1.. from inside...


Ambient = 8.. from outside...

Ambient = 8.. from inside...


Ambient = 12.. from outside...

Ambient = 12.. from inside...


Ambient = 18.. from outside...

Ambient = 18.. from inside...


Ambient = 2.5 with faked OL ambient in some windows.. from outside...

Ambient = 2.5 with faked OL ambient in some windows.. from inside...


And now a short vid showing all the models as rendered in T3D, with a sun
value of 1.5 and NOT represented in lightmap..


As you can see the difference between what is rendered in PL and T3D
is very different.

Having the sun as not represented in lightmap works quite well, but
still looks quite flat compared the the PL render.

Increasing ambient to a value that lights the interior to a degree that
is acceptable, looks horrid in PL, but sort of works in T3D.

faking ambient with OL in the windows works very well, except, this
cannot be done where the transition occures from outside to inside
(the entrance to the bank.)

My only thought, regarding the ambient, would maybe to have a per mesh
setting of ambient bounce strength.. I guess PL looks at the colour/
darkness of the texture on the mesh to decide bounce strength, but
an option to increase of decrease this default might be very useful ?

Thanks for reading, and I hope I've put over clearly what I mean.

Cheers,

Hewster

#12 Here is some feedback from our Technical Director.


Also, it seems the displayed lightmap data in prelight isn't correct.
It seems, sometimes, if I press 'find optimal texel size', and lets say
it selects 10, if I change that to 20 and then back to 10 again, the
lightmap preview is different, and sometimes a different lightmap size
all together.

Optimal is a bit loose / abstract - not quite sure what he's seeing, but thats probally not so much a bug as just a limitation of the "optimal" functionality.

I think it would be nice to be able to set a mesh to NOT receive ambient lighting.

I can supply shots of why I think it would be a nice feature, but
wonder if you might be able to guess why (think house with windows in
strong midday sunlight + ambient = washed out shadows outside the house,
when you up ambient enough to get enough lighting inside the house).

That would be a difficult solution - if only because we looked at that over a year ago, and the results are painful. He is far better off controlling the number of indirect bounces, the indirect filtering, and or using shadow blockers (that don't get published into the file scene) to selectively block lighting. He can also use modules to isolate sections - ie one set of lights in module A, another set of lights in module A. The ambient strength is interesting, but that fundementally changes things - again though, he could use modules to drastically change things. Also, notice how blurry the lighting inside is (even when scaled up) - he is FAR better using an OL in the windows, you get far better lighting in that regard. He could also burn the sections at different times (modules would be useable in this case).

As for the terrain lightmap that may be a T3D bug. You might want to have the GG folks look at than.

Hope that helps a bit.

#13 Hi David,

Yes that answers all but my previous post, although I had already decided
that simply ignoring ambient on a mesh might not be the best way forward..
And so I spent a lot of time formulating my last post to best express
the issues I am having with ambient lighting.

Note, I already have used OL for windows, and done separate burning for
outside and inside meshes (this was my first try at getting ambient to
a level I was satisfied with, see the Ambient = 2.5 with faked OL ambient
in some windows, examples in my last post).. which works, except for when
the mesh transitions from outside to inside (the bank entrance).

So may I ask again, would it be possible to have a per mesh setting of
ambient bounce strength.

I know this would distract from mathematically perfect lighting
calculations,but I have often found that exposure to tweaking levels
like this can get better / more aesthetically pleasing results, if given
the time and effort to find the best set-up for each scene.

Thanks again,

Hewster

#14 Well, if you remove the textures entirely from the inside of the bank, it gets plenty of indirect illumination bouncing in, with the background ambient and sun left at a power of 1. So, this seems to entirely be a case of the textures absorbing more of the indirect lighting than we want them to.

#15

Quote:So, this seems to entirely be a case of the textures absorbing more of the indirect lighting than we want them to.

Yes :)... and I suppose a completely matt surface WILL absorb more light than
a semi-reflective or glossy surface.. so a method of adjusting this
absorption, exposed to the artist, would be a good addition to PL ?

#16 Yeah, I'm trying to determine now if its absorbing more than its supposed to or not. Adding in some sort of adjustable parameter is definitely a possibility, its a matter of figuring out what the best adjustment would be and what the best way of implementing it would be.