Torque 3D Vs Unity

#1 From what I've read, the main difference between Unity and Torque is Unity does not allow you to modify the source code so your game can only be as extensive as the source. Beyond that those who have actually used it will have to comment...

#2 If you search the forums for Unity you should find a healthy dose of threads devoted to the use of Unity. Granted, not in comparison to T3D, but you should get some ideas from them.

#3 I have not tried Unity, but I suggest you stick with T3D. The Unity plug-in may be cheaper for browser games, but it does NOT run as fast as T3D... I have played Unity games before, and it lags alot.

#4 @Tyler - how many T3D games have you played?

If you see a game that's "laggy" then quite likely it's the game developer's fault, not the game engine.

@Gonzalo -

T3D and Unity are pretty much neck and neck in this race, but in all fairness you should compare TGEA to Unity.

It's unfair to compare an unreleased product to a released product.

I suspect Unity and Torque will be leap-frogging each other for the next few years.

The winners will be Indie game developers. :P

My choice... I say support them all if you can afford it, and if not then pick one and stick with it.

#5 What Torque 3D Matches Unity In:

1. Smooth art pipeline thanks to COLLADA
2. PhysX Implementation
3. Web Publishing
4. Integrated editors
5. Free support via community and documentation
6. Simple deployment
7. Shaders
8. Scripting
9. Intuitive user experience

What Torque 3D has over Unity 3D:

1. Superior rendering capabilities which rival Crytek or Unreal. This includes effects that are not even possible with Unity such as post processing effects.

2. More control over your environment and level editing

3. More powerful and varied tools (all WYSIWYG)
* Real Time Terrain Editor
* Real Time Terrain Painter
* River Editor
* Mesh Road Editor
* Decal Road Tool
* Decal Editor
* Material Editor
* Datablock Editor, which reduces the amount of manual scripting you have to perform
* Shape Editor, which allows you to custom build your animated objects and their animations from within Torque 3D
* ToolBox

4. Based off an engine with far more published games and a stronger track record

5. Way more employee to user interaction and support

6. A stronger, veteran community (I love the GG.com community)

7. Superior documentation: more content, higher quality, more features (dynamic docs), and more video tutorials

8. Torque 3D's networking is so much faster than what Unity offers, it's not even funny.

9. Full source code access

10. Frontline Award for Engine of the Year...hmm, that means far more people use our engine and found it to be the best you could use out of a competitive list. That includes Unity or Gamebryo

Should I keep going? I think I could hit the post limit if I do.

#6

Quote:From what I've read, the main difference between Unity and Torque is Unity does not allow you to modify the source code so your game can only be as extensive as the source.

This is definitely a very strong difference between Unity Pro ($1499 a license) and Torque 3d ($1000 a license). I've heard that even their special partners and developers (i.e. the equivalent of Torque 3D's Studio licenses, or $3000 and above) only get "read-only" source code access, meaning that they can submit bugs and fixes to Unity, but can't modify the source themselves. You can see an example from one Unity's flagship games, Zombieville USA, and how the developer has to submit their entire project to Unity to get things fixed in this thread. It works the first time, but in the recent Apple Update, it crops up again, and this time, with no resolution.

I sympathize with Unity here because keeping up with Apple is tough. However, their DRM causes issues from those who might benefit from modifying Unity's source. PirateNinjaAlliance is spending a lot of time on this one issue, rather than focusing time on making his game more fun. One might argue that this happens with Torque, but the irony here is that PirateNinjaAlliance even notes some solutions that would work if he had source code access, but scratches that off in favor of working within the sandbox.

And I think professional developers speak for themselves on how they use Torque. These developer interviews will give you an understanding of how Torque is used to make commercially successful games. If you have a question for any particular developer, I'd be more than happy to pass that question along! E-mail me at deborahm@garagegames.com.

#7 The shape editor is an unbelievably great time saver. Honestly, I think a lot of people don't yet realize how great it is. Where is the datablock editor? Did I overlook it or is that beta4?

#8 @Steve - Next Beta

#9 I tried a lot of engines including unity, T3D is much better. I didn't like unitys material editor (buggy too) and unity's lighting wasn't as good as T3D.

#10 I wanted to add one thing to Michael's list that I think is a big win for T3D:

1. Normal/Parallax mapped terrain

The rendering quality of T3D is far superior to any indie engine I've used so far. The new terrain system kicks butt, the additional tools have made it much easier to use, and the addition of Physx is really great. I'm also really excited about the progress being made in the documentation department.

I have been a customer of GG since 2001 and have been very critical of the engine in the past. When T3D was announced I was very skeptical about how things would turn out. I have to admit that I'm pretty impressed so far and getting more and more excited with each new beta release.

I too went through the process of considering Unity vs T3D but decided to stick with T3D instead for the following reasons:

1. Higher quality rendering, shadows, etc. Compare the ork town demo to that of the Unity island demo. The rendering quality looks so much better in T3D and T3D is still in beta!

2. Better terrain system with normal/paralax mapping...big win IMO

3. Best networking capability of any engine i've worked with.

4. Scatter Sky, I don't know of an indie game engine on the market that has this out of the box.

5. Road/River/Decal Tools.

6. Shape editor tools.

7. The post processing effects are excellent (light rays are amazing).

8. Source code included in 1000$ price. Unity is $1500 with no source. I am a C++ developer but not in the gaming industry and I still always find myself needing something that requires modifications to the source code.

9. Documentation - The documentation is shaping up to be the best i've seen for a game engine. This is very important. Other game engines I've used simply have a wiki with a bunch of dated and unorganized tutorials. The easier a game engine is to use the more people will use and keep on using it for their projects.

I could probably list 20 more things i'm really excited about...

The only cricism I can think of at this point is this:

It is still sometimes hard to follow the source code or know where to go when you want to make changes. I recognize documentating every nook and cranny of something as large as T3D is unrealistic. However, hopefully the docs will provide some insight into the core components of the engine, even if it's at a high level.

As I said before, I was a big GG skeptic and have come full circle back to being a GG fan. IMO, GG has done a great job with T3D so far and I highly recommend it if you haven't made a decision yet.

#11 Hi Gonzalo. I've used Unity briefly. I haven't purchased a license for T3D so I wont give my opinion of it. I've used TGE and TGEA and Ive test driven a number of other engines. most of the responses so far have been biased. here's an unbiased opinion.

I don't need to speak about the pros of T3D as others have done a good job of that so far. IMO, as far as rendering capabilities go, theyre about equal. However, there's one HUGE advantage Unity has over T3D, and all of GG's engines really; ease of use. unless you're a hardcore programmer...like me:) you will find Unity much easier to use to actually get your project up and running.

I'll be happy to give more detailed reasons why Unity is easier to use than T3D if anyone really wants to know. :)

#12 How can you give reasons why something is easier when you haven't used it? I mean.. I guess the more you limit a person's choices and abilities of making changes, it would naturally be "easier". I'm confused really. Unity does have a great editor though, but that by itself doesn't cut it.

As far as rendering..they are not the same. Not even close imo.

#13 As far as source code access goes its pretty much needed with T3D to make anything unique. You don't need it as much with Unity because the scripting layer is implemented at a lower level allowing you to write gameplay and movement code at the frame level. in most cases, the only reason you may need access to Unity's source is if you want to make big changes to Unity's rendering code.

Quote:
As far as rendering..they are not the same. Not even close imo.

well who's the winner in your opinion?

#14 @Sean H. - Unity 3D is a game design tool, not a game engine. This is straight from a Unity rep. It's a good tool, but the real power is in Torque 3D.

"As far as source code access goes its (sic) pretty much needed with T3D to make anything unique."

That's a good thing, right? Making a unique game that is fun? Name any one thing you want to do, and you can do it. The source is there. You cannot say the same for Unity 3D. You can eventually hit a feature you will never get without source access, and then you are shelling out more for their source access. That's not just talking rendering code.

Since you asked, the winner is Torque 3D when it comes to rendering. If you want to pull off half of the stuff Torque 3D can do, you will need Unity 3D's source code and implement it yourself.

As Andrew pointed out, you have not used Torque 3D (yet). It's hard to speak about the usability, and this thread is about Torque 3D vs Unity 3D. I think Torque 3D is far easier to use.

#15 Sean, I would direct you to the Show Off thread in the Torque 3D private forums, but since you aren't actually in the beta and have not actually used the engine yet, it's probably kinda a moot point.

"I haven't purchased a license for T3D so I wont give my opinion of it."

"As far as source code access goes its pretty much needed with T3D to make anything unique."

Needless to say, you are entitled to your opinion, but I question where it is coming from. If you favor Unity, great! But that doesn't make the facts any less true. :)

#16 @Sean H.: You're not unbiased because you say you are. Only facts are. From what I can tell, you don't have yours straight either. You mention that Unity gives you script level access to frame-level computations. While this *might* be strictly true in some cases, engine systems that require per frame updates should almost *never* be handled in script. Rendering, collision, and networking are very performance sensitive subsystems of any engine and doing these in anything other than C++ is almost certainly a mistake. Torque gives you the option. If you want to expose these to script, you can, but the C++ code is there to make adjustments / optimizations to the bare metal as needed. For these performance sensitive systems, you won't often need to, but at least you have the choice.

Game engines also have systems which perform computations / updates at the "per tick" level. These are less performance sensitive of course, so in some cases they can be handled in script. Unity forces users to perform most per tick computation (like most game play) in script. Torque offers a mix. Some portions are available in script, others are only implemented in code. With Torque, at least you have the option to address performance bottlenecks if they appear in your game. Torque is *very* fast, so you won't find many. With Unity, if you have a "per tick" computation that could really use source level optimization (there are plenty sample cases here), you better have a source code license if you hope to address it.

The last, least performance sensitive tier for game engine computations and updates are those which are event / trigger based. These almost universally should be done in script for maximum productivity. Both Unity and Torque handle this level in script, as does every game engine with a scripting language.

So, your point about Unity's script access going deeper than Torque's is correct. However, I think you'll find that most game teams prefer to a level of control which lets them choose whether per frame or per tick level computations be done in script or code. You don't have that choice with Unity.

#17

Quote:well who's the winner in your opinion?

Well, I'll say that it's name does not begin with a "U". ;)

Don't get me wrong, I respect Unity very much, and think it's got alot of things going for it but at the same level as T3D it is not.. of course imo.

#18 @Sean:

Quote:you will find Unity much easier to use to actually get your project up and running.

T3D is heads and tails above TGE and TGEA in this regard, and it's only getting better. Beyond all the new flash and glitter, there has also been a big push for ease of use - You really need to use it before dismissing it.

The only thing that I feel that would make it better is an integrated project/script editor for GUI's, System events, Shapes, etc. It would be great to select a button and be able to generate a function for the Command event and edit it directly, or select a trunk, and edit the "OnCollision" event (etc).

#19 To be fair you might want to go ask on the other side of the fence as well. Most people are posting on this forum are going to side with GG. I think most on the other side are going to note their art/tool pipeline and their scripting. Will be hard to compare T3D without getting a license or waiting till release. I am a happy customer so far though with T3D and I think a lot of people will be once it is released.

Would be nice if there was read only access for the show off thread to non owners as there is some nice early work done already for an engine that is in Beta :-).

#20 Personally, I'd go with T3D, my reasons:

Unity feels very 'ancient' in how it handles certain tasks, such as skyboxes, precipitation and object placement. Since T3D handles very much like the CryEngine editor (which is fantastic), it is super easy to make great terrains with little effort.

Of course I haven't got T3D (I wish) but I've seen enough video tuts to spot a great design when I see it.