Torque 3D Art Pipeline - Best DTS Exporter
by Hokuto · in Torque 3D Professional · 07/08/2009 (7:08 am) · 10 replies
Hi,
I have been reading around the forums searching for Blender, Houdini, etc... DTS, and so on. Some were old posts/blogs some more recent.
I was looking at the DTS Feature Chart here
FeatureChart
but this chart does not include Houdini or XSI
I am aware of the license limitations, for example XSI mod tool is non commercial (actually I am using a MAC so I can't use XSI anyway, I'm not running Windows on MAC) and Houdini 10 Apprentice $99 version matched the usual Torque Indie license. Of course Blender is free.
Both Houdini and Blender run on MAC and I think/assume/hope the DTS exporter for both Blender and Houdini works with the MAC version.
What I am trying to find out is, which art tool pipeline (excluding more costly options like software that costs $1000s), gives you the best export to DTS experience, as in it just works, smooth, it is up to date and supported and importatnly is fully compatible with Torque 3D (now in Beta 3). Of course I am talking about both static objects, textures, animated obejcts/characters... everything you need.
I have downloaded and installed Blender 2.49 and the DTS exporter 0.97; it took some time to get the exported installed because instructions for this version of the DTS exporter are out of date/missing from the exporter-site, but got it installed in the end. I am worried that the cumbersome experience I had to just get this DTS exporter installed could be a sign of how things will be with Blender/DTS
I have installed the free version of Houdini 10 Apprentice, but of course this version does not have the Torque exporter. Therefore all I will be able to compare here between Blender and Houdini is modelling/texture/animating workflow, but I won't be able to see how good the DTS built in exporter is for Houdini.
I am open to other options... for example using Silo-->Houdini-->DTS.
Is there a general opinion, a GG informed opinion, user experience-based opinion, on which pipeline is the one that offers the best, more efficient, most trouble-free experience to create art assets for Torque 3D?
I have been reading around the forums searching for Blender, Houdini, etc... DTS, and so on. Some were old posts/blogs some more recent.
I was looking at the DTS Feature Chart here
FeatureChart
but this chart does not include Houdini or XSI
I am aware of the license limitations, for example XSI mod tool is non commercial (actually I am using a MAC so I can't use XSI anyway, I'm not running Windows on MAC) and Houdini 10 Apprentice $99 version matched the usual Torque Indie license. Of course Blender is free.
Both Houdini and Blender run on MAC and I think/assume/hope the DTS exporter for both Blender and Houdini works with the MAC version.
What I am trying to find out is, which art tool pipeline (excluding more costly options like software that costs $1000s), gives you the best export to DTS experience, as in it just works, smooth, it is up to date and supported and importatnly is fully compatible with Torque 3D (now in Beta 3). Of course I am talking about both static objects, textures, animated obejcts/characters... everything you need.
I have downloaded and installed Blender 2.49 and the DTS exporter 0.97; it took some time to get the exported installed because instructions for this version of the DTS exporter are out of date/missing from the exporter-site, but got it installed in the end. I am worried that the cumbersome experience I had to just get this DTS exporter installed could be a sign of how things will be with Blender/DTS
I have installed the free version of Houdini 10 Apprentice, but of course this version does not have the Torque exporter. Therefore all I will be able to compare here between Blender and Houdini is modelling/texture/animating workflow, but I won't be able to see how good the DTS built in exporter is for Houdini.
I am open to other options... for example using Silo-->Houdini-->DTS.
Is there a general opinion, a GG informed opinion, user experience-based opinion, on which pipeline is the one that offers the best, more efficient, most trouble-free experience to create art assets for Torque 3D?
#2
thank you for your reply
I have an 8 core Mac Pro 2.8ghz and 10 GB of Ram. I had XSI Foundation 4.5 on PC and I loved it. But did not upgrade from there and I don't have a decent PC to run XSI now, but I guess I could look into running windows on a different disk, but the annoying thing would be to have to switch OS X to see changes to the models/anims in torque.. or of course run Torque 3D on the windows hard disk as well. If I want to use XSI yes it will cost too much now because I think they don't do the Foundation version anymore
I will look into 3D-Coat, to see if it also has good poly modelling on top of zbrush type of surface detailing.
So it looks like Houdini could be a solid cheaper alternative on OSX and XSI could be a nice alternative if one can afford it. I need to check current prices for XSI.
I do have an old Wacom A4 tablet, have not tried to install it on the MAC, need to see if OS X drivers exist for my old Wacom :)
Thank you very much for your reply
07/08/2009 (9:28 am)
Hi Jamesthank you for your reply
I have an 8 core Mac Pro 2.8ghz and 10 GB of Ram. I had XSI Foundation 4.5 on PC and I loved it. But did not upgrade from there and I don't have a decent PC to run XSI now, but I guess I could look into running windows on a different disk, but the annoying thing would be to have to switch OS X to see changes to the models/anims in torque.. or of course run Torque 3D on the windows hard disk as well. If I want to use XSI yes it will cost too much now because I think they don't do the Foundation version anymore
I will look into 3D-Coat, to see if it also has good poly modelling on top of zbrush type of surface detailing.
So it looks like Houdini could be a solid cheaper alternative on OSX and XSI could be a nice alternative if one can afford it. I need to check current prices for XSI.
I do have an old Wacom A4 tablet, have not tried to install it on the MAC, need to see if OS X drivers exist for my old Wacom :)
Thank you very much for your reply
#3
It may seem weird, but it doesn't allow this because of its non-commercial nature. You will only get DTS export from Houdini Apprentice HD.
07/08/2009 (10:29 am)
Just to note something here. Houdini Apprentice does not allow you to export Collada.It may seem weird, but it doesn't allow this because of its non-commercial nature. You will only get DTS export from Houdini Apprentice HD.
#4
07/08/2009 (4:48 pm)
Hmm. I wonder if Derek Bronson will chime in on weather Houdini will be updating their Exporter for the new DTS features of Torque 3D? IE polycount limit. 
#5
As far as polycount stuff I will do my best (I'm a business guy, not a tech/artist). Chris originally changed the memory allocation in Torque to allow a 32bit index. This made the polycount limit exponentially higher (so much so that it wouldn't be an issue). However, we found out that some graphic cards don't support the 32 bit and we had to revert back to 16 bit which has the 10k poly limit that James is referring to. That being said you can still get an object into Torque that is higher than 10k, for instance the Houdini Dragon you see in the screens on the Houdini page is somewhere around 50k if my memory serves me correctly.
What you have to do is break up any single mesh object into several pieces, each piece no more than 10k polys. It is kind of a hassle but I was able to break up the Dragon, with super limited experience in Houdini, in a matter of 30 mins or so. This allowed me to export a single Dragon.dts file and bring it into Torque, displaying it in its full 50k glory.
That being said I know thats a work around and not a complete solution. I am working with Chris to see if we can do some smart stuff in terms of auto breaking up meshes when importing them into Torque so people didn't have to do it in their art app.
07/08/2009 (5:31 pm)
@James and Hokuto - We will be looking into updating the Houdini exporter once Torque 3D releases. The main dev behind the exporter is the same one responsible for the Collada loader and Shape Editor so he has his hands full at the moment.As far as polycount stuff I will do my best (I'm a business guy, not a tech/artist). Chris originally changed the memory allocation in Torque to allow a 32bit index. This made the polycount limit exponentially higher (so much so that it wouldn't be an issue). However, we found out that some graphic cards don't support the 32 bit and we had to revert back to 16 bit which has the 10k poly limit that James is referring to. That being said you can still get an object into Torque that is higher than 10k, for instance the Houdini Dragon you see in the screens on the Houdini page is somewhere around 50k if my memory serves me correctly.
What you have to do is break up any single mesh object into several pieces, each piece no more than 10k polys. It is kind of a hassle but I was able to break up the Dragon, with super limited experience in Houdini, in a matter of 30 mins or so. This allowed me to export a single Dragon.dts file and bring it into Torque, displaying it in its full 50k glory.
That being said I know thats a work around and not a complete solution. I am working with Chris to see if we can do some smart stuff in terms of auto breaking up meshes when importing them into Torque so people didn't have to do it in their art app.
#6
07/08/2009 (5:41 pm)
Thanks Derek.
#7
Which isn't a problem with the houdini exporter. On your detail panel you just add more objects to the detail level.
07/08/2009 (8:13 pm)
Yeah, you can only have 10k polys per sub-mesh. If you make one object out of multiple sub-meshes that are <10k you should be fine.Which isn't a problem with the houdini exporter. On your detail panel you just add more objects to the detail level.
#8
07/08/2009 (9:13 pm)
Could someone explain why 16bit indices means 10k poly and not 65536 per DTS file as it would commonly be the case within the 16bit index limitation?
#9
07/09/2009 (12:15 am)
The original DTS format used signed 16-bit values, giving 2^15 = 32768 maximum positive indices. Triangles need 3 indices, so you can fit 2^15/3 = 10922 max triangles into a DTS mesh before things start getting messed up.
#10
good to hear that the exporter for Houdini will be supported and updated with Torque 3D's progresses. The one thing I'm scared about is going any specific way (houdini, blender, xsi, etc...) to then get stuck with an exporter that will not keep up with Torque engine updates.
For example, active support for Houdini Apprentice DTS exporter keeping up with Houdini's new versions and Torque's new versions would make all the difference and fully justify paying for the initial $99 then further upgrade prices. If Houdini DTS exporter is activily and promptly supported than I would have no problems to pay these prices instead going the Blender Free way, sort of paying for peace of mind and to support development of a tool I invest time in.
In my specific case, at the moment XSI 7.5 is out of budget; I have started to play around with Houdini Apprentice free version and so far I am liking it, it makes sense to me, it feels easy to get started with. I will also try some tutorial for Blender to still compare the two, but for the first couple of hours Houdini feels nice (although too early to decide, I have not built anything with it yet).
07/09/2009 (1:06 am)
Hi Derek Bronsongood to hear that the exporter for Houdini will be supported and updated with Torque 3D's progresses. The one thing I'm scared about is going any specific way (houdini, blender, xsi, etc...) to then get stuck with an exporter that will not keep up with Torque engine updates.
For example, active support for Houdini Apprentice DTS exporter keeping up with Houdini's new versions and Torque's new versions would make all the difference and fully justify paying for the initial $99 then further upgrade prices. If Houdini DTS exporter is activily and promptly supported than I would have no problems to pay these prices instead going the Blender Free way, sort of paying for peace of mind and to support development of a tool I invest time in.
In my specific case, at the moment XSI 7.5 is out of budget; I have started to play around with Houdini Apprentice free version and so far I am liking it, it makes sense to me, it feels easy to get started with. I will also try some tutorial for Blender to still compare the two, but for the first couple of hours Houdini feels nice (although too early to decide, I have not built anything with it yet).
Torque Owner James Brad Barnette
3Dmotif LLC
Houdini is an Awesome application for animation and dynamics. It is relatively new to the games industry though. Its modeling tools leave a lot to be desired. but animation wise and And it's ability to work with ALL torque Engines is really top notch.
If I were running on a low budget with a intel mac my torque art Pipeline would be as follows. Silo for modeling. then I would take things into Houdini and do the rest from there as far as animating and exporting in to torque.
Now if you have a little bit more cash bout $50US you can get 3D-coat. I have not used it on a mac but they have a mac version that is feature complete so. If you want the highly detailed models like what you see people doing in z-brush. then 3D-Coat is you program. It uses voxels and is capable of doing things that zbrush and mudbox simpley cant do even though they cost more. Also I know on PC Silo can be a little unstable. not sure about on the mac though.
so for $300US you can get 3D-Coat, and your Houdini apprentice. From there you actually have two routes into Torque. Collada and DTS.
Of course if you can swing the Cash for it I have to say Softimage has a lot of game specific tools that are second to none. We run 8 core MacPros with Vista Business x64 here and Run Softimage. Softimage has a top notch Exporter for DTS and has one of the best out of the box Collada Exporters. Yes it is more expensive But I could not image working without it. But our needs are prolly different from your as we are primarily and animation company.
But as I said if I was looking for a solely mac low cost full featured route I would go with 3D-Coat and Houdini.
Also if you don't already have one you get gonna need to get a Tablet.