Missing Feature: Video Playback
by A. Saratow · in Torque 3D Professional · 06/12/2009 (8:00 am) · 28 replies
Hi Folks,
I know there are many much more important things to do in Torque 3D than plain video playback, but when will this feature be available (it was on the feature list in the preorder phase ;)? As far as i know it has gone west since TGE 1.4.2 and never resurrected until now.
There is still a Theora GUI control in the sources (in a "#if 0" block), as well as a theora library (which is not included or built by default) - but i guess i miss some background knowledge to make it run using the old tutorials.
I know there are many much more important things to do in Torque 3D than plain video playback, but when will this feature be available (it was on the feature list in the preorder phase ;)? As far as i know it has gone west since TGE 1.4.2 and never resurrected until now.
There is still a Theora GUI control in the sources (in a "#if 0" block), as well as a theora library (which is not included or built by default) - but i guess i miss some background knowledge to make it run using the old tutorials.
About the author
#2
06/18/2009 (3:19 pm)
Had hoped for this to make it into B3 but it apparently won't. Next release/beta then. 
#3
I've seen the work, lot's of hard serious work, Rene has done for SFX in general and this very feature.
06/18/2009 (10:06 pm)
Patience is good :DI've seen the work, lot's of hard serious work, Rene has done for SFX in general and this very feature.
#4
06/20/2009 (1:58 am)
The longer it takes the better it gets... or how was that saying? ;) 
#5
07/08/2009 (12:03 pm)
is the Video in Torque 3D still going to be theora? I had hoped for something a little more modern and less obscure.
#6
Theora is on par with MPEG-4. Being obscure or not is irrelevant: its your game playing the movies, the user couldn't care less about what format it's using (see: Bink video). Also, encoders (many with GUIs) are available for all platforms: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theora#Encoding
07/08/2009 (12:53 pm)
Anything less "obscure" would require codecs to be installed in the user machine, interfacing with platform-specific multimedia APIs or licensing of commercial 3rd party libraries.Theora is on par with MPEG-4. Being obscure or not is irrelevant: its your game playing the movies, the user couldn't care less about what format it's using (see: Bink video). Also, encoders (many with GUIs) are available for all platforms: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theora#Encoding
#8
07/08/2009 (1:51 pm)
Theora is certainly not "obscure".
#9
07/08/2009 (2:12 pm)
Quote:Would bink work for T3D?Considering it costs way more than T3D to license Bink, I assume they have a nice SDK that allows you to integrate it with any 3D application.
#10
What I have in mind and already partly implemented is direct-to-texture video streaming, i.e. no more specialized GUI controls. Instead, any texture can be a dynamic texture fed from a video source.
Theora unfortunately indeed isn't that much of a mainstream format. Codec support for certain other formats is significantly better and technically the codec itself has a hard time competing with its rival formats (not to speak of the abysmal junk code coming out of Xiph). But it is a usable format and the fact that it is freely available code with no licensing issues is definitely a value.
Still, I will look into adding support for other formats as this thing gets further along.
Disclaimer: no promises of any kind.
07/09/2009 (10:21 am)
Unfortunately, video playback will likely not make it for the 1.0 release of Torque 3D but rather be in the follow-up release. It came pretty late in the game and had a stable, working SFX update as a prerequisite. Also, there is quite a bit of polishing and fixing still to be done on Torque 3D and I'm not a big fan of just hacking some sort-of-working thing together. I want to do this properly.What I have in mind and already partly implemented is direct-to-texture video streaming, i.e. no more specialized GUI controls. Instead, any texture can be a dynamic texture fed from a video source.
Theora unfortunately indeed isn't that much of a mainstream format. Codec support for certain other formats is significantly better and technically the codec itself has a hard time competing with its rival formats (not to speak of the abysmal junk code coming out of Xiph). But it is a usable format and the fact that it is freely available code with no licensing issues is definitely a value.
Still, I will look into adding support for other formats as this thing gets further along.
Disclaimer: no promises of any kind.
#11
Does it mean there will be a bugfix/featurefix update that follows shortly after release that is free?
Or does this mean the paid release that is due in 12-18 months?
07/09/2009 (11:53 am)
@Rene: What does "Followup release" mean in this context?Does it mean there will be a bugfix/featurefix update that follows shortly after release that is free?
Or does this mean the paid release that is due in 12-18 months?
#12
Nope, I meant the immediate next point release. I'd like to pick up work again on this as soon as Torque 3D has that shiny "Available in stores NOW!" tag on its box.
07/09/2009 (12:10 pm)
Nope, I meant the immediate next point release. I'd like to pick up work again on this as soon as Torque 3D has that shiny "Available in stores NOW!" tag on its box.
#13
07/09/2009 (9:09 pm)
I am reading from these responses, that since the SFX layer isnt working properly with Theora, its not a priority, Theora plays fine in TGEA/T3d, but without sound. Its boils back into the now lengthy wait and see, which we have been recieving *fill in blank* months now, since SFX was introduced. Its nice we have all these other features. But having the sound working fully (and then back ported with at the very least TGE level capability as a standard) YES i know beta 3 now has streaming fixed. All i see is some nibbling on the edges. Lets see a major Sound push, for all relative areas, and a sfx update for offical TGEA release. And Yes i know the Employees official response is we will possible backport it after T3d is 1.0 release.. which will be when? 6 months? A year? Consider what has been said. Or do i need to reference the posts from the last full year now. 
#14
I know it might be a bummer not to have this feature, but there are so many other features we were not expecting. On the other hand, he's going to do video direct-to-texture. How cool is that? Think huge video ads in Fantasci! This is definitely something big, that's worth waiting for, no?
On the other hand, if things work out fine, you will be able to play flash video through the built-in browser feature if that makes it in time.
Also, Rene.. the new 2d streaming really rocks. I love it. Thanks.
07/10/2009 (4:18 am)
@Edward: Lower the pitchfork, Rene's working on this. Finally, someone is working on this! That should be pretty good news in itself.I know it might be a bummer not to have this feature, but there are so many other features we were not expecting. On the other hand, he's going to do video direct-to-texture. How cool is that? Think huge video ads in Fantasci! This is definitely something big, that's worth waiting for, no?
On the other hand, if things work out fine, you will be able to play flash video through the built-in browser feature if that makes it in time.
Also, Rene.. the new 2d streaming really rocks. I love it. Thanks.
#15
@Konrad
Thanks for the support and your kind words.
Keep up your great work. Want to see more giant turtles in great looking quick stills :)
B4 will have some more improvements/fixes to SFX and even some minor new features (like volume fades).
@Edward
I know that whatever I say, there's gonna be negative backlash from you, so yeah. I do hope that in the end you will be satisfied but I'm not counting on it.
07/10/2009 (6:50 am)
@Konrad
Thanks for the support and your kind words.
Keep up your great work. Want to see more giant turtles in great looking quick stills :)
B4 will have some more improvements/fixes to SFX and even some minor new features (like volume fades).
@Edward
I know that whatever I say, there's gonna be negative backlash from you, so yeah. I do hope that in the end you will be satisfied but I'm not counting on it.
#16
I've actually been using the "music player" as a Music Player :D
07/10/2009 (10:16 am)
Quote:Yes, me likes it too.
Also, Rene.. the new 2d streaming really rocks. I love it. Thanks.
I've actually been using the "music player" as a Music Player :D
#17
Will i be satified? You are asking apples and oranges questions. The Torque engine is very good, i have been promoting TGE, TGEA, T3d, and AFX (particularly AFX) to anyone that asks. However the shortcomings Sounds, lack of AI materials, number of bugs, cpu/gpu issues.. stuff like that, has made me have to make the point that while we love the graphical stuff, Someones gotta take responsiblity for the work. not if im satisfied, but if GG is satisfied with the other aspects. Im just a consumer, GG doesnt honestly care about 1 or 3 consumers, they cater to the mass(you cant please everyone) but these issues and others still get passed on from 1 person to another, 1 version to another. How many bugs get passed one through all these versions? I bet some of the knowledgeable of yourself can point out one or 2. Engine breaking, no. Fixable, yes. Do some fixes need to be backports to the previous release. T3d to TGEA. Yes.
07/10/2009 (10:41 am)
@rene. Its not personally you. This issue has been handed off to 3 GG employees now. First with Micheal Perry, Then to Tom Spilman, and now yourself. I will be happy when i can use my material i have sitting from TGE and i can port it without a serious engine rewrite of TGEa of a feature that should have been in from the start. or Am i wrong to be satisfied with less the TGE features in my TGEa, much less TGE. I can see the love of all the graphical features and editors, all great and fun stuff. Now lets look at the rest of the stuff. AI, Sound, and Terrain options. Sound does have FMOD, but refering to a 3rd party pack rather then actually having it included at some standard, rather the material is simply unhooked and left for another day. Thats what has me unsatisfied. GG does alot of awesome things. And you will see me there on a few of them. But its something like the SFX where its not just affecting T3d, but affecting items like material thats all ready to be ported, but were getting a wait till release, its being worked on. If it was just 1 or 2 releases.. but where here 1.7X, 1.8.x, T3d betaX, waiting on several factors. Not the most of which Documentation, sound fixes, and the Theora player works visually, but its completely unusable without the reference. If i sold you a car, but i forgot to mention the horn doesnt work.. might you be a bit concerned? Paint job looks great, engine runs nice... (id say great.. but im reading over the bugs.. its a WIP, got that.) Will i be satified? You are asking apples and oranges questions. The Torque engine is very good, i have been promoting TGE, TGEA, T3d, and AFX (particularly AFX) to anyone that asks. However the shortcomings Sounds, lack of AI materials, number of bugs, cpu/gpu issues.. stuff like that, has made me have to make the point that while we love the graphical stuff, Someones gotta take responsiblity for the work. not if im satisfied, but if GG is satisfied with the other aspects. Im just a consumer, GG doesnt honestly care about 1 or 3 consumers, they cater to the mass(you cant please everyone) but these issues and others still get passed on from 1 person to another, 1 version to another. How many bugs get passed one through all these versions? I bet some of the knowledgeable of yourself can point out one or 2. Engine breaking, no. Fixable, yes. Do some fixes need to be backports to the previous release. T3d to TGEA. Yes.
#18
"F4V" is just the newest flash video format. It is h.264 based and also doesn't have the length limitations that FLV has.
I think that from a steaming content perspective Flash video would have the most appeal.
huh? so Theroa will run on any machine without codecs?
07/10/2009 (10:45 am)
I think that for ads the best possible solution would be having FLV and F4V support. This already the format of 90% of the video on the internet. I also know of 2 sites that will allow you to upload a video the server will convert to FLV and then you can download the resulting FLV file."F4V" is just the newest flash video format. It is h.264 based and also doesn't have the length limitations that FLV has.
I think that from a steaming content perspective Flash video would have the most appeal.
Quote:Anything less "obscure" would require codecs to be installed in the user machine, interfacing with platform-specific multimedia APIs or licensing of commercial 3rd party libraries.
huh? so Theroa will run on any machine without codecs?
#19
Also while this may work and actually would prolly be the recommended path for say a video display in a game but what about Full screen Video. light pre-rendered cut scenes and video splash screens?
07/10/2009 (10:57 am)
hmm if we could play to a texture would it not simply be a matter of playing the sound file separately? would it be that hard to keep these in sync?Also while this may work and actually would prolly be the recommended path for say a video display in a game but what about Full screen Video. light pre-rendered cut scenes and video splash screens?
#20
There's a few things I'd like to point out in response:
a) I have myself purchased quite a number of products from GG including TGE and TGEA. I've got what I paid for and even a whole lot more (several free updates) and in my eyes, the few hundred bucks I've spent on this entitle me to exactly nothing.
b) Agreed, there's been things in TGEA's development that definitely could have been done better and everyone at GG is aware of them. On the other hand, there's never before been such a massive development effort going on for Torque and I am absolutely confident that Brett, Deborah, and Matt are really steering this engine in a very good direction. And not just short-term. Torque 3D will not just be about pretty graphics (well, obviously it already isn't just about graphics since the editors were one of the major focal points). I am sure other things will follow.
@Michael
Hah! And I was going to name it tTunes :)
Thanks, Michael!
@James
Yes, the Theora codec is compiled into the engine and needs nothing to be installed on the user's end.
Direct-to-texture is not video-only. Synchronized sound playback is part of that.
07/10/2009 (11:09 am)
@EdwardThere's a few things I'd like to point out in response:
a) I have myself purchased quite a number of products from GG including TGE and TGEA. I've got what I paid for and even a whole lot more (several free updates) and in my eyes, the few hundred bucks I've spent on this entitle me to exactly nothing.
b) Agreed, there's been things in TGEA's development that definitely could have been done better and everyone at GG is aware of them. On the other hand, there's never before been such a massive development effort going on for Torque and I am absolutely confident that Brett, Deborah, and Matt are really steering this engine in a very good direction. And not just short-term. Torque 3D will not just be about pretty graphics (well, obviously it already isn't just about graphics since the editors were one of the major focal points). I am sure other things will follow.
@Michael
Hah! And I was going to name it tTunes :)
Thanks, Michael!
@James
Yes, the Theora codec is compiled into the engine and needs nothing to be installed on the user's end.
Direct-to-texture is not video-only. Synchronized sound playback is part of that.
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