My concerns about TGEA
by Eric den Boer · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 06/11/2009 (3:09 pm) · 57 replies
Hi,
No.. not another n00b question from me, that you're all used to by now... but rather I'd like to express a concern I've been having. Let me explain it a bit, though.
I go to college (yay for me) and I follow a course called International Game Architecture & Design. Its called International because I go to an international university in the Netherlands. Anyway... our college recently purchased licenses for TGEA, especially for us. So in college, I'm allowed to work with TGEA only (and any other engine as long as its not T3D, get it?). I myself also bought T3D because I fell in love with Torque, Garage Games and its community during the development of our project game. So in the end, I'm stuck with TGEA for college. T3D is looking amazing, but I can only use it in private as the college isn't going to buy T3D licenses because I think its so amazing - we had trouble getting them to buy TGEA as it was (long story, ask me again some times)
And this is also where my concern starts... To me, GG seems to be concentrating on T3D (who can blame 'em, right?) however I feel that TGEA - that one version of the engine that I'm allowed to use in college, legally - is being abandoned. Now I'm seeing more and more threads in the forum where users are finding bugs, or missing features and what not that get fixed.. but only in T3D and not in TGEA. One example is the streaming audio thread here recently, where its being fixed in T3D, rather than TGEA. I can imagine that this is pissing off users and I'm probably not the only one with this concern.
So my concern is that TGEA will not get anymore patches / fixes. Can anyone elaborate on this? Where is TGEA 1.8.2 or TGEA 1.9? Are there any fixes planned for the current TGEA?
Thanks!
PS: Thanks for being an awesome community - never have I encountered such a helpful community before in my life!
No.. not another n00b question from me, that you're all used to by now... but rather I'd like to express a concern I've been having. Let me explain it a bit, though.
I go to college (yay for me) and I follow a course called International Game Architecture & Design. Its called International because I go to an international university in the Netherlands. Anyway... our college recently purchased licenses for TGEA, especially for us. So in college, I'm allowed to work with TGEA only (and any other engine as long as its not T3D, get it?). I myself also bought T3D because I fell in love with Torque, Garage Games and its community during the development of our project game. So in the end, I'm stuck with TGEA for college. T3D is looking amazing, but I can only use it in private as the college isn't going to buy T3D licenses because I think its so amazing - we had trouble getting them to buy TGEA as it was (long story, ask me again some times)
And this is also where my concern starts... To me, GG seems to be concentrating on T3D (who can blame 'em, right?) however I feel that TGEA - that one version of the engine that I'm allowed to use in college, legally - is being abandoned. Now I'm seeing more and more threads in the forum where users are finding bugs, or missing features and what not that get fixed.. but only in T3D and not in TGEA. One example is the streaming audio thread here recently, where its being fixed in T3D, rather than TGEA. I can imagine that this is pissing off users and I'm probably not the only one with this concern.
So my concern is that TGEA will not get anymore patches / fixes. Can anyone elaborate on this? Where is TGEA 1.8.2 or TGEA 1.9? Are there any fixes planned for the current TGEA?
Thanks!
PS: Thanks for being an awesome community - never have I encountered such a helpful community before in my life!
Thread is locked
#42
I wonder if its possible to have TGEA supported by the community, via submissions. Bug fixes and new features would be implemented after approval by GG. Looking over code submissions I think is easier than making code. So, there'd be a small, part-time team on behalf of Garage Games deciding what submissions/fixes to implement in the next release.
This way there'd be continued support and updates for TGEA without consuming as many development hours, and community members can take part in TGEA's development. A lot of colleges use TGEA, could be something to think about...
06/16/2009 (11:43 am)
I remember years back, some community members made "how-to" submissions that ended up becoming integrated into TGE.I wonder if its possible to have TGEA supported by the community, via submissions. Bug fixes and new features would be implemented after approval by GG. Looking over code submissions I think is easier than making code. So, there'd be a small, part-time team on behalf of Garage Games deciding what submissions/fixes to implement in the next release.
This way there'd be continued support and updates for TGEA without consuming as many development hours, and community members can take part in TGEA's development. A lot of colleges use TGEA, could be something to think about...
#43
06/17/2009 (12:04 pm)
@Don: That would be amazing! Especially for our college since the upcoming years and project teams are going to be using this engine on a great(er) scale. 
#44
06/17/2009 (1:56 pm)
@Don and Eric: That is indeed a great idea, and is, in fact, how the Torque 3D betas are being run, albeit informally (people submit bugs and fixes quite briefly in the private forums). We will definitely put some thought into this suggestion.
#45
Actually, with TGEA reaching a "finished" version point (with only bug fixes that can be ported down from T3D), community resources get a much more stable base to work on.
06/19/2009 (11:20 am)
Something similar to how Valve gathers some of the best Team Fortress 2 user maps and make them part of the game. That'd be nice, yes. There are already some resources that are mature enough that they could be part of the trunk to save new users the hassle of installing them (and with the collateral effect of making the demo version richer).Actually, with TGEA reaching a "finished" version point (with only bug fixes that can be ported down from T3D), community resources get a much more stable base to work on.
#46
Its called T3D, sadly
06/20/2009 (1:45 pm)
"There are already some resources that are mature enough that they could be part of the trunk to save new users the hassle of installing them"Its called T3D, sadly
#47
@Jeremiah
Are you suggesting that Torque 3D is basically nothing more than a packaging of community resources?
If so, this is one of the most insulting and ignorant comments I have read here in some time. Let alone the fact that it is utter nonsense.
06/20/2009 (2:03 pm)
@Jeremiah
Are you suggesting that Torque 3D is basically nothing more than a packaging of community resources?
If so, this is one of the most insulting and ignorant comments I have read here in some time. Let alone the fact that it is utter nonsense.
#48
That's talking about 1 or 2 features. The rest were designed specifically for Torque 3D and written internally.
06/20/2009 (2:23 pm)
@Jeremiah - You've been corrected on this before in another thread where you made a similar accusation. Maybe a couple of the additions were inspired by community resources, but we did not straight rip code from a free resource and put it in the engine.That's talking about 1 or 2 features. The rest were designed specifically for Torque 3D and written internally.
#49
=(
Thanks...
It's unfortunate to know that you can just spit acidic comments out like that so nonchalantly.
06/20/2009 (5:27 pm)
@Jeremiah =(
Thanks...
It's unfortunate to know that you can just spit acidic comments out like that so nonchalantly.
#50
You read the comment as a bash on Torque 3D. I read the same comment before yours, and got a different opinion.
From how I took his comments:
The things people want in tgea are the things in t3d. It's a shame this community has gone so far south. It's also why I normally stay away from threads. This was once a great community.
06/20/2009 (6:17 pm)
What is sad, is 1 person can make a comment, and 3 other jump to a conclusion and dump on him. You read the comment as a bash on Torque 3D. I read the same comment before yours, and got a different opinion.
From how I took his comments:
The things people want in tgea are the things in t3d. It's a shame this community has gone so far south. It's also why I normally stay away from threads. This was once a great community.
#51
I want the same things included in my 1999 Mustang as there are in the 2009 Mustang.
I'm not expecting to just magically get those things handed to me without paying for it. It wouldn't be fair to the people who worked hard to make those changes a reality.
This isn't a charity we run here, we have families, bills, and are not paid like rockstars.
He's implying that we are just taking community resources, wrapping them up, and selling them - and that's bullshit.
Having a great community is a 2-way street.
06/20/2009 (6:48 pm)
It *was* an offensive comment. I want the same things included in my 1999 Mustang as there are in the 2009 Mustang.
I'm not expecting to just magically get those things handed to me without paying for it. It wouldn't be fair to the people who worked hard to make those changes a reality.
This isn't a charity we run here, we have families, bills, and are not paid like rockstars.
He's implying that we are just taking community resources, wrapping them up, and selling them - and that's bullshit.
Having a great community is a 2-way street.
#52
That was from his last post about Torque 3D, and also included something about GG gobbling up talent and resources to put them in Torque 3D. I knew what he was saying. I was not jumping to conclusions. There was a reason to be offended.
I actually wasn't peeved about his comment as much as I am about your community comment, which is derailing this completely. I am going to disagree with you. Our community morale and activity is at a major high right now. The quantity and quality of the forum posts and blogs are fantastic. From employees (tripled in the past year), associates, and community members. Our IRC Hour hit 75 unique viewers last week.
If you think the community has gone down hill, start a separate thread about it and post some reasons why. We are always looking for ways to improve it. I'm sure the others will want to know why you think their community is in a poor state. I'll be waiting with about 50 unique links to threads, blogs, and IRC Hour transcripts to show you how much I think this community rocks.
As Kenneth stated, respect and support goes both ways.
06/20/2009 (7:29 pm)
@Mike - As I mentioned in my post:Quote:As for all of these new features, the fact is a large part of them we're started as community resources and some have been "in process" for a long time
That was from his last post about Torque 3D, and also included something about GG gobbling up talent and resources to put them in Torque 3D. I knew what he was saying. I was not jumping to conclusions. There was a reason to be offended.
I actually wasn't peeved about his comment as much as I am about your community comment, which is derailing this completely. I am going to disagree with you. Our community morale and activity is at a major high right now. The quantity and quality of the forum posts and blogs are fantastic. From employees (tripled in the past year), associates, and community members. Our IRC Hour hit 75 unique viewers last week.
If you think the community has gone down hill, start a separate thread about it and post some reasons why. We are always looking for ways to improve it. I'm sure the others will want to know why you think their community is in a poor state. I'll be waiting with about 50 unique links to threads, blogs, and IRC Hour transcripts to show you how much I think this community rocks.
As Kenneth stated, respect and support goes both ways.
#53
As for his previous comments, I didn't know about them.
06/20/2009 (7:43 pm)
I think I'll just crawl back under my rock. It isn't worth the argument.As for his previous comments, I didn't know about them.
#54
What's unfortunate is that one person can make a negative comment and immediately get 4 responses from GG employees while other threads like this one barely get any response at all.
As for community resources being integrated into T3D, I strongly feel that those who contributed resources which eventually made it into the engine, in one form or another, should be compensated for their contribution.
06/21/2009 (10:13 am)
Quote:
It's unfortunate to know that you can just spit acidic comments out like that so nonchalantly.
What's unfortunate is that one person can make a negative comment and immediately get 4 responses from GG employees while other threads like this one barely get any response at all.
As for community resources being integrated into T3D, I strongly feel that those who contributed resources which eventually made it into the engine, in one form or another, should be compensated for their contribution.
#55
Time was that posts like that would have GG staff reminding people to stay civil, not join in.
That aside, the mixed messages from GG posters over the last few months about the future of TGEA are disconcerting.
EDIT: And now a TGEA thread derailed by GG employees gets locked because it's derailed. The tinfoil hat wearers could have a field day with this. ;) TGEA... it's the hobbyist engine, it's a viable product, we won't be updating it, we won't be bug fixing it, but we'll continue selling it, but we won't be supporting it, but yea, we'll promise to maybe look at it in our spare time to shut people up, although at the end of the day we feel everyone should be using T3D, rinse, repeat.
06/21/2009 (10:50 am)
I'd have to echo Mike and Sean's thoughts to be honest, it's pretty dismal to see 4 GG employees so easily lured into trash talking and bitchery. It's bad enough that us "lower class" customers get trashed on by the T3D elitists without GG employees starting to go that way.Time was that posts like that would have GG staff reminding people to stay civil, not join in.
That aside, the mixed messages from GG posters over the last few months about the future of TGEA are disconcerting.
EDIT: And now a TGEA thread derailed by GG employees gets locked because it's derailed. The tinfoil hat wearers could have a field day with this. ;) TGEA... it's the hobbyist engine, it's a viable product, we won't be updating it, we won't be bug fixing it, but we'll continue selling it, but we won't be supporting it, but yea, we'll promise to maybe look at it in our spare time to shut people up, although at the end of the day we feel everyone should be using T3D, rinse, repeat.
#56
"If you think the community has gone down hill, start a separate thread about it and post some reasons why."
This thread has derailed to the point where it is no longer about the original topic.
06/21/2009 (10:58 am)
As Michael stated above :"If you think the community has gone down hill, start a separate thread about it and post some reasons why."
This thread has derailed to the point where it is no longer about the original topic.
#57
Was my statement "trash talk"? Hmmm...
But to better explain myself, I see the work that goes into Torque 3D. I see the daily commits, the hours that are being put into this product. I see the incredible work that the tech guys like Tom and his team do, the great work that is being done on the editors, Josh's amazing work on web tech, Chris' awesome Collada support, and the list goes on and on.
Having someone go and blurb out a comment like Jeremiah is pretty dismaying then but maybe I should have just ignored it.
But okay, as Ken stated, this thread is getting pretty off-topic and becoming less than useful.
06/21/2009 (11:02 am)
@RossWas my statement "trash talk"? Hmmm...
But to better explain myself, I see the work that goes into Torque 3D. I see the daily commits, the hours that are being put into this product. I see the incredible work that the tech guys like Tom and his team do, the great work that is being done on the editors, Josh's amazing work on web tech, Chris' awesome Collada support, and the list goes on and on.
Having someone go and blurb out a comment like Jeremiah is pretty dismaying then but maybe I should have just ignored it.
But okay, as Ken stated, this thread is getting pretty off-topic and becoming less than useful.
#58
However, I do honestly feel that members like Mike Rowley had no intention of making anyone upset and was just making an observation. So apologies from us if we offended, and if there are any suggestions you have, we are listening. Please start a new on-topic thread, or feel free to e-mail me personally: deborahm@garagegames.com.
06/21/2009 (12:18 pm)
I'm seeing tensions high on both sides of the fence on this thread, so we're locking this down. I cannot speak for how community members feel, but on the GG side of things, we've been working hard on Torque 3D for many months with good intentions towards making the best 3D game engine possible given all of our resources. It's sometimes hard to see people sounding so overly negative as to be critical without being constructive. It does, yes, feel a bit insulting at times, especially as we're crunching toward releasing Beta 3.However, I do honestly feel that members like Mike Rowley had no intention of making anyone upset and was just making an observation. So apologies from us if we offended, and if there are any suggestions you have, we are listening. Please start a new on-topic thread, or feel free to e-mail me personally: deborahm@garagegames.com.
Torque Owner TheGasMan
G.A.S. [+others]
//
I've only ever wanted what was advertised when I licensed the engine 2 years ago. Let's review:Old Website TGEA features page
This stuff is missing or broken:
- Users can drop in shaders from demos or tools such as FX Composer and RenderMonkey.
- Built-in Theora video codec playback
- 2D Sound, 3D Sound, Streaming Sound
- (self-shadowing objects) ..last I checked[been awhile] this is borked.
- I never noticed the "save-load system" that was listed. Interesting. Where's that ?
//
I don't care if some of that is not possible or was forgotten...it was ADVERTISED. If you want, you can reply and put any spin on this that you want as I don't expect anyone to admit fault(would have been done by now). So, go ahead and somehow blame me for any problems..I'll simply ignore the reply. :P
P.S. Andrew's point on the T3D discount is brilliant.
Also..I mentioned before that I feel that we are being politely forced into T3D. ..especially by the fanbois as if they've been turned to brainwashed drones.
edit: I fixed a few typos...and added this(I have posted similar to this line before): I'll upgrade to T3D once it is proven that it is not another TGEA by being feature complete.