Request: Remove the "Select Arrow" Mode

#21 I believe you have to bind a specific alt key, like "ralt" or "lalt".

But I really don't think this is going to be that simple. For example, how do you handle one modifier key held means rotate but two modifiers held means scale?

This use to be handled in C++ by the worldeditor which can look at the current state of individual modifier keys. I have a feeling that doing this via actionmaps is just not going to work.

If you have any more questions on this topic please make a new thread.

#22 I dont scale THAT often, so could easily do without that hot-key function. But alt for rotation is ingrained deeply (camera pan/rotation in most all my other 3D apps).

The lalt bit did the trick, thanks much! Now i do the dance of joy!

Sorry for taking the thread on a tangent. It did seem the original subject was finished, and i was adding to Tom Spilman's request.

Here is the 100% working final, for future reference:

//rotate  
EditorMap.bindCmd( keyboard, "lalt", "EWorldEditorRotateModeBtn.performClick();", "EWorldEditorMoveModeBtn.performClick();" );

#23 I like the hotkeys the way it is currently. It is consistent with crysis, max, and maya key selections.I use the selection tool a lot because you can have an object selected and edit it without the gizmo getting in the way of viewing your object like it does when editing a material on a selected object. It also seems easy enough if you don't use the selection tool to not use it and only use 2 3 and 4.

#24 As an artist I have to disagree with removing select mode.. While I can see why this may seem redundant to others, it is really useful to me and other artists that want to be sure stuff isn't accidentally moved. When I have to work quickly, the last thing I want to worry about is a bunch of stuff I selected accidentally got moved. It's the same reason why every major modeling tool has a pick tool.

For the 1 key being bound to pick instead of 4.. This keybinding scheme is the closest we can get to having the standard QWER bindings in major 3d apps (where q is bound to pick) while still allowing wasd movement control. I think that it's important to have an editor that both coders and artists can use comfortably, but I think that it's better to favor the artist.. as they are the ones that have to use it to actually build the majority of the final missions.

I am pretty surprised this is actually an issue at all.

#25 Some truly good points.
Its an issue so people have a chance to share their opinions, and reasons.
I don't normal do random multi-selection in the 3D view, but use the TreeView object list(after modification to show the shape filename), so for me it never occurred that there was even a need for the Select Mode. Now that i read what Matt and Jason have to offer the discussion I can truly see value and usability for the Select Mode; thanks guys (im going to go play with it right now and see how it fits).

#26 We spent a bit of time making the decision to have a selection tool. Highlighting the pluses of the tool in the above post; we also opted for it for the familiarity of the tool, for a WYSIWYG feel.

The selection tool could definitely use some tweaking though; along the line of more obvious/ less obscured selections and more obvious mouse hovers.

#27 I'm not looking at it from a coders perspective.... just someone trying to use the tool.

And its an issue because as a user (and worse a coder on the project) the current way it is confuses me almost every time i accedentially get into pick mode.

I could deal with the inconvinece of selecting pick mode when i want move mode if the pick mode didn't look like a bug. It looks like a bug because i pick something and it looks unselected.

A concrete example....



... quick... what is the picked object in that scene?

I think James above suggested we draw a simple object axis when an object is picked (like 3dsmax does). We should also consder highlighting the icon in some way as well... transparency isn't enough.

I think that would at least make the pick mode not seem like a bug and ruin the flow when your trying to get stuff done.

#28 @Tom

Quote:The selection tool could definitely use some tweaking though; along the line of more obvious/ less obscured selections and more obvious mouse hovers.

I completely agree with you on the point you make. We are working towards this solution.

#29 Very good point Tom.. I also think that it should be more clear on what you have have selected.. Do you think if that was fixed the pick tool wouldn't be all that bad?

#30 @Matt - I'll still not like it and never use it, but at least i'll realize when i mistakenly got into it. ;)

#31 I personally don't have an issue here at all; I'm used to working with aps like 3DS which have a specific "select" tool. This tool exists to make it impossible to accidentally move something when working with complex scenes and precise object placement. You may accidentally drag an object a few inches when selecting it, and that can be a serious annoyance in some environments.

As far as the keys, just practice using it for a bit and you'll get used to using 2-3-4 instead of 1-2-3. Or you could always swap the bindings around yourself, it's all in script.

#32 I would prefer 123 for the ones I most often use, move/rotate/scale, although that might be equally anoying to others more use to the 3dsmax standard. Perhaps this is a good reason to get the editor bindings adjustable and saving properly via the settings dialog?

#33 Perhaps my confusion about the need for the function(Select Mode) stem from the fact that when i started in 3D computer graphics back in the days of the AMIGA, i was forced to learn how to select things without slopping all over the place with the mouse. Call me old fashion. New newfangled helper functions- who needs them!
Im actually starting to enjoy it very much now that someone pointed out a practical use for it (the number key not so much just cant get into the hang of it).

Luckily finding and changing the key bindings is really easy. What i like about Torque have always been its simple flexibility when changing something like that.

Im all for building it better for easy user configuration.

#34 @James - I'd rather personally deal with the 1 key than see adjustable bindings for the 1/2/3/4 shortcuts. That seems like it would make things more complex for very little reason.

#35 A system for exposing bound keys to the world editor settings dialog and allowing users to remap them is already implemented, I was just suggesting that if it was actually working maybe that would solve everyone's problem.