Stargate game halted
by Josef Jahn · in General Discussion · 12/17/2002 (7:18 am) · 64 replies
The freeware game Stargate SG1, based on the Torque engine will never be finished. Shortly before entering the public beta phase, the development team received a letter from an MGM attorney, demanding the immediate removal of all copyrighted material from the website. This is the end of this freeware game, and puts a big question mark on the various Stargate-MODs currently in development for Half-Life and Elite Force.
While we understand MGM's desire to protect it's intellectual property, we feel that this step only hurts themselves by killing valuable and free advertising for their products and the whole Stargate franchise as such. It's safe to assume that other fan-works based on the TV series or the movie will see their demise pretty soon.
As a rather dark side notice, the ISP hosting the game's website received a letter in which the attorneys demanded all personal information about the development team to be handed over, which the ISP refused. This is a rather disturbing twist.
While we understand MGM's desire to protect it's intellectual property, we feel that this step only hurts themselves by killing valuable and free advertising for their products and the whole Stargate franchise as such. It's safe to assume that other fan-works based on the TV series or the movie will see their demise pretty soon.
As a rather dark side notice, the ISP hosting the game's website received a letter in which the attorneys demanded all personal information about the development team to be handed over, which the ISP refused. This is a rather disturbing twist.
#2
12/17/2002 (7:39 am)
Chances are that we will continue, but without any visual or name references to the original show. It's sad because of some really excellent models (Especially the Goa'uld models) but there's nothing we can do. We don't want to make a simple plagiat that "just uses different names and slightly different shapes for everything".
#3
Anyhoo, look at this as an opportunity for some extra creativity, now that you're free to create your own characters and settings.
12/17/2002 (8:00 am)
I'm surprised you guys didn't see this was coming. You can't just grab a license and run with it, and plenty of other internet projects illegally based on various TV and movie licenses have been shut down.Anyhoo, look at this as an opportunity for some extra creativity, now that you're free to create your own characters and settings.
#4
You should go on with your project, with an easter egg where a group of rebels must kill the Golden Evil Lion and their attorney minions.
If you need a beta tester, count on me.
12/17/2002 (8:06 am)
Everybody should know this happened.You should go on with your project, with an easter egg where a group of rebels must kill the Golden Evil Lion and their attorney minions.
If you need a beta tester, count on me.
#5
12/17/2002 (8:09 am)
I agree with Mark. I'm always surprised when people start projects based on films or TV shows and then act surprised and outraged when they're contacted by hard hitting lawyers. Take what you have and change the content to be something other than Stargate. 
#6
Just kidding, yeah, this is really useless to start project on TV shows or things like that...
I'm just hoping you will keep working on something else, good luck!
12/17/2002 (8:53 am)
Yeah, perhaps you could make a character with long ears, a captain of a giant spaceship, some strange hairy alien fighting them and... what??? Startrek? really?! Shit!!Just kidding, yeah, this is really useless to start project on TV shows or things like that...
I'm just hoping you will keep working on something else, good luck!
#7
12/17/2002 (9:00 am)
Same thing happend with Funamation and the Dragonball Z mod for Quake 3. From what i hear they were just about to release it to the public when funamation told them to get rid of any and all dragonball reference or be sued.
#8
Um, excuse me, did I sound surprised? Did I sound outraged? Well I certainly wasn't. We lived with the possibility of this happening. I clearly stated that it's unquestioned that creating a game based on a TV show is basically dericative work, which per-se is a copyright violation.
Our hope was to go unnoticed. We gambled, and got caught red-handed. Please don't interprete naiveness into a posting where there is none. I was just stating facts, partly to warn others to not fall into the same pitfall.
The bottom line is: They ignore you until you pose a threat. Which in this case means that as soon as they start making a game about their show, you're toast.
12/17/2002 (9:04 am)
Quote:I'm surprised you guys didn't see this was coming.
Um, excuse me, did I sound surprised? Did I sound outraged? Well I certainly wasn't. We lived with the possibility of this happening. I clearly stated that it's unquestioned that creating a game based on a TV show is basically dericative work, which per-se is a copyright violation.
Our hope was to go unnoticed. We gambled, and got caught red-handed. Please don't interprete naiveness into a posting where there is none. I was just stating facts, partly to warn others to not fall into the same pitfall.
The bottom line is: They ignore you until you pose a threat. Which in this case means that as soon as they start making a game about their show, you're toast.
#9
12/17/2002 (9:08 am)
@Josef: Mark wasn't saying you were surprised. He's saying that he was surprised.
#10
12/17/2002 (9:14 am)
He wrote that he was surprised about us not seeing this coming. I wasn't running around shouting "Oh my god, the evil corporate monsters made us shut down our precious game". If my posting made that impression, I'm sorry as it wasn't intended to sound like that.
#11
I think our wires are crossed. You complained that he'd said that you were surprised, yet he wasn't saying you were surprised, he was saying that he was sur...... oh never mind... :)
12/17/2002 (9:16 am)
Quote:Um, excuse me, did I sound surprised?
I think our wires are crossed. You complained that he'd said that you were surprised, yet he wasn't saying you were surprised, he was saying that he was sur...... oh never mind... :)
#12
Other companies have embraced fan fiction, even including movies (The Force)--as long as no money is being made.
This skirts the whole IP fad we're going through. As a country (USA, and likely others too) we're over-valuing intellectual property's worth. Sure, it means total control of Stargate and better ensures movies like the pornographic anime' Starballz (clean news site), 'inspired' by Star Wars, aren't made, but the law is not a fine scalpel's edge but rather a sweeping sword. That means excellent fan-fic movies like Troops or the Mell Brooks parody Spaceballs would have never been made either!
Weedkiller kills flowers, too. :)
--Eric Forhan
Trajectory Zone
edit: error patrol
12/17/2002 (9:54 am)
What should surprise you is that MGM doesn't want fans to make such things. If nothing else, it's free advertising and may even generate extra interest in the show itself.Other companies have embraced fan fiction, even including movies (The Force)--as long as no money is being made.
This skirts the whole IP fad we're going through. As a country (USA, and likely others too) we're over-valuing intellectual property's worth. Sure, it means total control of Stargate and better ensures movies like the pornographic anime' Starballz (clean news site), 'inspired' by Star Wars, aren't made, but the law is not a fine scalpel's edge but rather a sweeping sword. That means excellent fan-fic movies like Troops or the Mell Brooks parody Spaceballs would have never been made either!
Weedkiller kills flowers, too. :)
--Eric Forhan
Trajectory Zone
edit: error patrol
#13
On a related issue...
Guys, this isn't about free advertising, or MGM being jerks, or anything of the sort.
Trademark law is a 'defend it or lose it' system. If MGM didn't shut this game (and any mod they know about) down, they could lose the ability to protect their stargate trademarks at all. This is what happened to Hoover and their vacuum cleaner brand, to cite a well known example.
They are required by US law to do this, so bitch at congress, not at MGM.
12/17/2002 (10:05 am)
My logic had led me to believe that people wouldn't knowingly expend effort on a project that was virtually guaranteed to be shut down, hence my thought that you guys were surprised by this.On a related issue...
Guys, this isn't about free advertising, or MGM being jerks, or anything of the sort.
Trademark law is a 'defend it or lose it' system. If MGM didn't shut this game (and any mod they know about) down, they could lose the ability to protect their stargate trademarks at all. This is what happened to Hoover and their vacuum cleaner brand, to cite a well known example.
They are required by US law to do this, so bitch at congress, not at MGM.
#14
@Mark: That's not completely true. I agree that silently allowing it would undermine their interests, and create problems in case of a trial because of us being a precedence case for the other side.
They could however grant us an exclusive, limited permission to use their copyrighted materials and trademarks. By doing that, they could still control who uses it. They would not create a precedence case that would result in them loosing the grip on their belongings.
Anyway, it's useless to contemplate over it. There's is a disturbing trend, yes. I don't know if Stargate is another example for it, or just happening alongside though.
12/17/2002 (10:07 am)
@Eric: That's my point. If someone abducts a tv show for tasteless parody or simple plagiatism, I'd understand such a reaction. This, however, is like swatting flies with a bulldozer.@Mark: That's not completely true. I agree that silently allowing it would undermine their interests, and create problems in case of a trial because of us being a precedence case for the other side.
They could however grant us an exclusive, limited permission to use their copyrighted materials and trademarks. By doing that, they could still control who uses it. They would not create a precedence case that would result in them loosing the grip on their belongings.
Anyway, it's useless to contemplate over it. There's is a disturbing trend, yes. I don't know if Stargate is another example for it, or just happening alongside though.
#15
You'll almost certainly get shut down and lose all your work. Plus, once it has been established that your game is based on a work, it is much harder to then go change a few things and release it because if they want to sue you for infringement because they feel your end game is "too close" to their IP, their case is SO MUCH easier when they can point to the fact that your project USED to bill itself as something directly tied to the IP. Draw inspiration from other's works, sure, but don't use them in total without permission.
Also, unlike many other people (from what I've read on the net) I actually don't have issues with companies doing this sort of thing. Like it or not, end consumers who play the game are going to associate the game with the existing IP. If the game sucks for some reason, you are diminishing the value of the original work in the minds of those who play your game even if you had good intentions while making it.
Also, if the company is shown to not protect its IP when it is used by unauthorized people, it lessens the legal weight of their IP. If the company just let anyone run wily nily with their property, soon their competitors might even be abusing them with the original company having no legal way to stop it.
12/17/2002 (10:20 am)
I've mentioned this in the past, on the developer snapshots of the unauthorized GI Joe game, but IMO people should never, ever start a game based on existing IP without having proper authorization, it just isn't worth it. You'll almost certainly get shut down and lose all your work. Plus, once it has been established that your game is based on a work, it is much harder to then go change a few things and release it because if they want to sue you for infringement because they feel your end game is "too close" to their IP, their case is SO MUCH easier when they can point to the fact that your project USED to bill itself as something directly tied to the IP. Draw inspiration from other's works, sure, but don't use them in total without permission.
Also, unlike many other people (from what I've read on the net) I actually don't have issues with companies doing this sort of thing. Like it or not, end consumers who play the game are going to associate the game with the existing IP. If the game sucks for some reason, you are diminishing the value of the original work in the minds of those who play your game even if you had good intentions while making it.
Also, if the company is shown to not protect its IP when it is used by unauthorized people, it lessens the legal weight of their IP. If the company just let anyone run wily nily with their property, soon their competitors might even be abusing them with the original company having no legal way to stop it.
#16
But if they make an exception for one group and license everything to you legally, they'll be deluged with requests from other indie teams wanting to make Stargate games. Why should your project be the exception? How can they be sure your project won't be horrible when finished? (Not that I'm saying it will be, just that they have no way of knowing). Making an exception for one person almost always opens up the floodgates. I completely understand why companies do not do this generally.
12/17/2002 (10:25 am)
Quote:
They could however grant us an exclusive, limited permission to use their copyrighted materials and trademarks. By doing that, they could still control who uses it. They would not create a precedence case that would result in them loosing the grip on their belongings.
But if they make an exception for one group and license everything to you legally, they'll be deluged with requests from other indie teams wanting to make Stargate games. Why should your project be the exception? How can they be sure your project won't be horrible when finished? (Not that I'm saying it will be, just that they have no way of knowing). Making an exception for one person almost always opens up the floodgates. I completely understand why companies do not do this generally.
#17
IP protection is important, but I agree to Eric, this protection would have more wisdom and intelligence.
12/17/2002 (10:34 am)
You guys may use your main character model in a McGyver based game...IP protection is important, but I agree to Eric, this protection would have more wisdom and intelligence.
#18
They have to protect their IP the same as you should protect yours.
If anyone is considering anything like this, they should approach the owners of the IP in question, in the very first place, if they blow you out the door, at least your hard work isnt a waste.
Just move on, and remember that you still have a lot of work done for a game, ie scripting,programming and such, although i geuss most of your content art is now of no use.
Sorry for your bad news though.
12/17/2002 (10:44 am)
MGM simply had no choice in this matter, many mods for games have had the same treatment, Lucas Arts are noturious for shutting down mods, amongst others.They have to protect their IP the same as you should protect yours.
If anyone is considering anything like this, they should approach the owners of the IP in question, in the very first place, if they blow you out the door, at least your hard work isnt a waste.
Just move on, and remember that you still have a lot of work done for a game, ie scripting,programming and such, although i geuss most of your content art is now of no use.
Sorry for your bad news though.
#19
Having worked on(still workin on it) on a game based on tv series, it is bring created as personal requests by many fans i decided to do it, it won't be released to the public or anything like that without specific premission from the owners of the show.
It will be worked on for my pleasure as i loved the series, and so do many of my friends.
So with my thinking, if it is not released to the public what are they going to do, i can create anything i like, as long as i don't sell it or goes to public!
What am i affecting it! This is clearly a very sensitive subject.
To me it really depends what you are doing with it, for me it is a distraction, i have already been in contact with them but have received no response, because of that it is not being released to anyone it will just run on my pcs and be shared with friends.
Anyways i hope i made, sense i'm a bit tired after having 3 exams so i can't really think of anything else to add.
12/17/2002 (10:57 am)
let me add my thought to this!Having worked on(still workin on it) on a game based on tv series, it is bring created as personal requests by many fans i decided to do it, it won't be released to the public or anything like that without specific premission from the owners of the show.
It will be worked on for my pleasure as i loved the series, and so do many of my friends.
So with my thinking, if it is not released to the public what are they going to do, i can create anything i like, as long as i don't sell it or goes to public!
What am i affecting it! This is clearly a very sensitive subject.
To me it really depends what you are doing with it, for me it is a distraction, i have already been in contact with them but have received no response, because of that it is not being released to anyone it will just run on my pcs and be shared with friends.
Anyways i hope i made, sense i'm a bit tired after having 3 exams so i can't really think of anything else to add.
#20
-Star Wars has made it through alot of fanfic, fan films, parodies, and that Ewok TV show without losing even a bit of their trademark
-Human genome copyright--what a lark
I believe IP rights are important. As I had said before, I also believe we're going through a phase where, like "dotcoms", they are overvalued. In the case of art: all art is based on previous art, and will/should be the basis of future. The same could be said of inventions.
Of course, this is the same argument that has filtered from generation to generation for years: Does everything have a price?
--Eric "ask me about how IP rights could be the end of the world as we know it" Forhan :)
12/17/2002 (11:04 am)
-Developers should definately inquire before creating anything-Star Wars has made it through alot of fanfic, fan films, parodies, and that Ewok TV show without losing even a bit of their trademark
-Human genome copyright--what a lark
I believe IP rights are important. As I had said before, I also believe we're going through a phase where, like "dotcoms", they are overvalued. In the case of art: all art is based on previous art, and will/should be the basis of future. The same could be said of inventions.
Of course, this is the same argument that has filtered from generation to generation for years: Does everything have a price?
--Eric "ask me about how IP rights could be the end of the world as we know it" Forhan :)
Associate James Urquhart
Still, If you really wanted to continue with the game, you could alter it to such an extent that nobody would think "Ah, isn't item X in stargate?" or "This sounds too much like stargate"