Next drop of iTGB
by Simon Golding · in iTorque 2D · 01/29/2009 (10:59 am) · 30 replies
Anyone know when the next drop of iTGB is going to happen? Hoping for for more optimizations that will allow iTGB to be really used for publishing a title.
Simon
About the author
#2
02/03/2009 (2:21 am)
I'd like to know this as well. I recently purchased iTGB and right now I am very disappointed. It seems the editor settings are buggy, settings don't seem to stick and I can't get my game to run in landscape mode at all. The whole process seems very convoluted and took a lot of time to figure out. 
#3
If you are daydreaming that you do not need to use sources for a complex game: I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but the iPhone is of no use as dev platform for you then, unless you change your game design to meet your capabilities, which in case of pure script means a simple shooter with few objects only, puzzle or alike.
Anything above that will require source usage to create components etc
What thought is a pretty large problem right now is the problems with the editors and workflow.
- pvr compression in editor: not present unless its a magically nowhere accessable functionality
- Stability of editor: Serious problem
- Compile scripts from editor: There is some pretty strange issue that makes the editor run not work on various systems. those have to manually compile TGBGame to be able to create DSO
- Some usefull statics in the debug banner: skip it. Still the same trash from TGB which is pretty much worthless for the iPhone development as the really important stuff is the number of batches (the iphone is pretty allergic to many object switches), used texture space and similar.
Not 10 incarnations of how many FPS and how long took the physics to happen.
- As for me, the other problem is that the performance is exactly the same in 1.0.1 as it is in 1.1 so I've not seen the script performance gains that were advertised.
02/03/2009 (2:35 am)
The performance of iTGB actually is pretty good.If you are daydreaming that you do not need to use sources for a complex game: I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but the iPhone is of no use as dev platform for you then, unless you change your game design to meet your capabilities, which in case of pure script means a simple shooter with few objects only, puzzle or alike.
Anything above that will require source usage to create components etc
What thought is a pretty large problem right now is the problems with the editors and workflow.
- pvr compression in editor: not present unless its a magically nowhere accessable functionality
- Stability of editor: Serious problem
- Compile scripts from editor: There is some pretty strange issue that makes the editor run not work on various systems. those have to manually compile TGBGame to be able to create DSO
- Some usefull statics in the debug banner: skip it. Still the same trash from TGB which is pretty much worthless for the iPhone development as the really important stuff is the number of batches (the iphone is pretty allergic to many object switches), used texture space and similar.
Not 10 incarnations of how many FPS and how long took the physics to happen.
- As for me, the other problem is that the performance is exactly the same in 1.0.1 as it is in 1.1 so I've not seen the script performance gains that were advertised.
#4
The iTGB games are rolling into the app store now, and I'm impressed with their performance and quality. I also know of a few more that will be dropping over the coming month.
With the release of the Platformer Kit Pro, I bet a even more fun games will start trickling in to the store.
02/07/2009 (12:23 pm)
@Simon - We haven't nailed down a date for 1.2 yet, but we have a feature list for the devs to work through.The iTGB games are rolling into the app store now, and I'm impressed with their performance and quality. I also know of a few more that will be dropping over the coming month.
With the release of the Platformer Kit Pro, I bet a even more fun games will start trickling in to the store.
#5
What is disappointing however is that simple, but serious bugs that were introduced in the last release (breaking of multi-touch capability, breaking of the editor's saved settings) were not immediately patched.
I feel sorry for anyone who has bought iTGB recently. Without having carefully read every forum discussion there's no way anybody could make a game with this engine as many critical steps in the development process are not covered in any documentation.
Garage Games should seriously consider increasing their staff count on iTGB if they wish to stem the flow of developers switching to other, more mature iPhone engines.
02/09/2009 (4:22 am)
I can understand GG not wanting to give a release date for new versions, as locking down a release date for the initial iTGB forced it to be released long before it was ready.What is disappointing however is that simple, but serious bugs that were introduced in the last release (breaking of multi-touch capability, breaking of the editor's saved settings) were not immediately patched.
I feel sorry for anyone who has bought iTGB recently. Without having carefully read every forum discussion there's no way anybody could make a game with this engine as many critical steps in the development process are not covered in any documentation.
Garage Games should seriously consider increasing their staff count on iTGB if they wish to stem the flow of developers switching to other, more mature iPhone engines.
#6
I've already redesigned my project to use Unity iPhone for the current project as I don't intend to fix issues with the technology myself if I am forced to show the iTGB logo even if it was my work that made the tech work correctly at all.
Get some realistic license there or the staff to backup the current license terms.
The next version of iTGB will be GGs last chance to finally deliver what should have been & was advertised to be there with 1.0 for which I payed, a working TGB spinoff iPhone targeted technology. If it will not be met again, I'll request a refund as I've no interest in a technology that is dead again for the next 6-12 months till someone feels that it is worth to really support it, as with TGEA.
And just to mention that: I would be pretty sad to be forced to drop iTGB for the other project as well as iTGB be the best tech for it if it finally did what it was meant to do in Sept already
02/09/2009 (6:01 am)
I fully agree with thatI've already redesigned my project to use Unity iPhone for the current project as I don't intend to fix issues with the technology myself if I am forced to show the iTGB logo even if it was my work that made the tech work correctly at all.
Get some realistic license there or the staff to backup the current license terms.
The next version of iTGB will be GGs last chance to finally deliver what should have been & was advertised to be there with 1.0 for which I payed, a working TGB spinoff iPhone targeted technology. If it will not be met again, I'll request a refund as I've no interest in a technology that is dead again for the next 6-12 months till someone feels that it is worth to really support it, as with TGEA.
And just to mention that: I would be pretty sad to be forced to drop iTGB for the other project as well as iTGB be the best tech for it if it finally did what it was meant to do in Sept already
#7
02/12/2009 (8:13 am)
[Edit] Not going to add fuel to the fire, I'm sure GG has noticed and is working on it as we speak.
#8
Our current team does not have a real programer at this time to try and work on and around engine issues. No one engine is perfect. We bought iTGB because I could work with the editor and understand the scripting in TGB. The fact that the two are practically the same thing is perfect, except for the issues it has here and there. We were hoping that it would be a simple pass on to the compiler. Which it almost is.
What Garage Games is trying to do for indie gamers is great.
I know you guys are still working on it. But this feels like it is still in beta. As a paying customer I'm looking forward to the next release and hope it addresses a lot of the issues.
02/12/2009 (11:32 am)
The Price structure in my opinion is great. But the problems im having are not. We just formed a business and paid for the TGB pro and iTGB. We have no money coming in right now so the money is coming from our pockets. Our current team does not have a real programer at this time to try and work on and around engine issues. No one engine is perfect. We bought iTGB because I could work with the editor and understand the scripting in TGB. The fact that the two are practically the same thing is perfect, except for the issues it has here and there. We were hoping that it would be a simple pass on to the compiler. Which it almost is.
What Garage Games is trying to do for indie gamers is great.
I know you guys are still working on it. But this feels like it is still in beta. As a paying customer I'm looking forward to the next release and hope it addresses a lot of the issues.
#9
Nothing says the iTGB logo has to be first, we use our logo for the deault.png, then show the iTGB screen once the program loads (about 14 seconds in) and continue loading datablocks while the iTGB logo is up, thus shortening the whole process to about 18 seconds. GG is fine with this. Frankly, if they insisted their logo would be first, I wouldn't use the product, but they don't. All you have to do is ask, they are very agreeable people.
We had tons of crashing until we moved a lot of graphics to 8bit (looks fine for what we are doing) and moved to iTGB 1.1. Since then it doesn't crash at all. BUT, we re-wrote the program to minimize memory usage at any one time, load optional things only right before they are needed, delete things we won't need again, etc, etc. Memory is going to be an issue on the iPhone no matter what engine you are using, but it can be managed.
We are really psyched that in 5 months we got a game done and submitted to Apple, even while working on the bleeding edge! Next week we start on two new iPhone games! Whoo Hoo!
@ Brian - yes, it feels like beta, but I would rather be working on the beta and get a game out, that not get a game out until much later. It's frontier days here, and all our comments and findings are making it a better product.
02/12/2009 (11:41 am)
@ Dave and Marc - Not to say that you guys don't have valid complaints, that is going to happen when living on the bleeding edge, but let me present a different take on two items, to be fair:Nothing says the iTGB logo has to be first, we use our logo for the deault.png, then show the iTGB screen once the program loads (about 14 seconds in) and continue loading datablocks while the iTGB logo is up, thus shortening the whole process to about 18 seconds. GG is fine with this. Frankly, if they insisted their logo would be first, I wouldn't use the product, but they don't. All you have to do is ask, they are very agreeable people.
We had tons of crashing until we moved a lot of graphics to 8bit (looks fine for what we are doing) and moved to iTGB 1.1. Since then it doesn't crash at all. BUT, we re-wrote the program to minimize memory usage at any one time, load optional things only right before they are needed, delete things we won't need again, etc, etc. Memory is going to be an issue on the iPhone no matter what engine you are using, but it can be managed.
We are really psyched that in 5 months we got a game done and submitted to Apple, even while working on the bleeding edge! Next week we start on two new iPhone games! Whoo Hoo!
@ Brian - yes, it feels like beta, but I would rather be working on the beta and get a game out, that not get a game out until much later. It's frontier days here, and all our comments and findings are making it a better product.
#10
@1.1 Bugs - The multi-touch and editor not saving settings bugs have been submitted to the repo. I'm going to see if we can go ahead and release that for now.
@Stability - I haven't had any crashes in TGB or iTGB. What crashes have you come across?
@Support - I would like it if there was a larger team for iTorque, just as I wish that for every other engine we have. Right now you have me and the devs in the forums answering questions, responding directly to e-mails, and working on docs/vid tutorials to be released with the next iTGB.
@Logo Requirement - This has been a requirement for all the Torque engines for a long time. It's not like we imposed this just with iTorque.
- pvr compression in editor: If you have a PVR texture in the directory that is the same name as the .jpg or .png you are using, it will be loaded automatically. Sort of like how a DSO is used instead of a .cs.
- Stability of editor: Are you talking about the editor not saving settings? That is a problem and I think we'll do a minor point release for this.
- Compile scripts from editor: That is a problem and I think we'll do a minor point release for this with the above fix.
- Some useful statics in the debug banner: Passing this on to devs for feedback
02/12/2009 (11:42 am)
@Licensing - We are going to make an announcement of this, but we decided not long ago that we are removing the per title fee from the iTorque licenses.@1.1 Bugs - The multi-touch and editor not saving settings bugs have been submitted to the repo. I'm going to see if we can go ahead and release that for now.
@Stability - I haven't had any crashes in TGB or iTGB. What crashes have you come across?
@Support - I would like it if there was a larger team for iTorque, just as I wish that for every other engine we have. Right now you have me and the devs in the forums answering questions, responding directly to e-mails, and working on docs/vid tutorials to be released with the next iTGB.
@Logo Requirement - This has been a requirement for all the Torque engines for a long time. It's not like we imposed this just with iTorque.
- pvr compression in editor: If you have a PVR texture in the directory that is the same name as the .jpg or .png you are using, it will be loaded automatically. Sort of like how a DSO is used instead of a .cs.
- Stability of editor: Are you talking about the editor not saving settings? That is a problem and I think we'll do a minor point release for this.
- Compile scripts from editor: That is a problem and I think we'll do a minor point release for this with the above fix.
- Some useful statics in the debug banner: Passing this on to devs for feedback
#11
02/12/2009 (12:54 pm)
[Edit] Ranting and raving removed out of respect.
#12
iTGB has some of the best functionality out there. Especially in terms of GUI controls! That's what makes it a tool of choice for certain types of projects.
And nothing has anything compared to iTGB power for 2D game development. It's way more than capable and if it wasn't as good as it is now, I couldn't use it for a major game coming out in March.
There, now you know I sit on both sides of the fence :)
02/12/2009 (1:48 pm)
I will add this to my rant, because I really am a GG fan:)iTGB has some of the best functionality out there. Especially in terms of GUI controls! That's what makes it a tool of choice for certain types of projects.
And nothing has anything compared to iTGB power for 2D game development. It's way more than capable and if it wasn't as good as it is now, I couldn't use it for a major game coming out in March.
There, now you know I sit on both sides of the fence :)
#13
Look forward to more info.
02/12/2009 (2:06 pm)
@michael - Thanks for touching base with the vent thread. Look forward to more info.
#14
And I felt your first post to be thoughtful and not an overly unfair rant. I just wanted to defend GG on the logo thing because I think too many people think it has to be first. Hell, I think they'd be okay with it at the end of the game, but you really can't do that on the iPhone. In conjunction with that, I wanted to point out how with a little work you can also REALLY reduce the perceived load time for a game. And I wanted to talk about stability, and share the tips that have made the product very stable for me.
However, I'm not attempting to invalidate any of the rest of your comments. I'm just pretty darn happy to be getting a game out there without learning a new language! No harm, no foul, I hope.
02/12/2009 (4:55 pm)
@ Dave - Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm really not trying to negate your troubles or feelings about iTGB, I just addressed 2 issues on which I think you needed to hear another point of view, that's all. And I felt your first post to be thoughtful and not an overly unfair rant. I just wanted to defend GG on the logo thing because I think too many people think it has to be first. Hell, I think they'd be okay with it at the end of the game, but you really can't do that on the iPhone. In conjunction with that, I wanted to point out how with a little work you can also REALLY reduce the perceived load time for a game. And I wanted to talk about stability, and share the tips that have made the product very stable for me.
However, I'm not attempting to invalidate any of the rest of your comments. I'm just pretty darn happy to be getting a game out there without learning a new language! No harm, no foul, I hope.
#15
This was promised on the second release, re-promised on 1.1, hopefully fulfilled in 1.2. I'm begging it'll be resolved for the love of god.
"Licensing - We are going to make an announcement of this, but we decided not long ago that we are removing the per title fee from the iTorque licenses. "
Atleast this little bit of news is positive and might actually stretch the thinning patience I have with promised performance of iTGB half a year ago.
Sorry for being harsh, you can check the old posts I have and comments on the old iTGB blog posts and see the change in my tone.
02/13/2009 (5:55 am)
"Stability of editor: Are you talking about the editor not saving settings? That is a problem and I think we'll do a minor point release for this."This was promised on the second release, re-promised on 1.1, hopefully fulfilled in 1.2. I'm begging it'll be resolved for the love of god.
"Licensing - We are going to make an announcement of this, but we decided not long ago that we are removing the per title fee from the iTorque licenses. "
Atleast this little bit of news is positive and might actually stretch the thinning patience I have with promised performance of iTGB half a year ago.
Sorry for being harsh, you can check the old posts I have and comments on the old iTGB blog posts and see the change in my tone.
#16
I'll post here when it goes up. Since I'm having trouble replicating the issue on my end, I'll have to rely on your testing. If the problem persists, I'll dig into the code myself to see what else is tripping us up.
This will also include a multi-touch fix.
02/13/2009 (10:28 am)
@Ed - Yeah, that bug has been tricky to track down. Every time we find one variable or function controlling that, another one seems to crop up based on feedback. I am pulling down the latest version of iTGB from the repo today, and will package it up as a .zip.I'll post here when it goes up. Since I'm having trouble replicating the issue on my end, I'll have to rely on your testing. If the problem persists, I'll dig into the code myself to see what else is tripping us up.
This will also include a multi-touch fix.
#17
02/13/2009 (2:10 pm)
yea I tried fixing the editor not saving settings also. Spent about 30 minutes trying to figure it out and gave up. Having the source is nice, but it's still a big time investment to learn it well enough to fix certain types of bugs. 
#18
02/16/2009 (8:00 am)
@Licensing - does this change apply to Commercial / iTorque Studio licenses as well?
#19
02/16/2009 (1:15 pm)
@Geoff - Yes, this applies to Commercial licenses as well.
#20
For more information on iTorque Studio Licensing please contact licensing@garagegames.com with "iToqrue Studio"' in the subject line.
02/25/2009 (1:04 pm)
@ Geoff- "iTorque Studio" licenses will emulate our console licenses which are a one-time fee for unlimited developers on a single title."Indie" and "Commercial" licenses will emulate our standard PC/Mac license which are a one-time, per-developer fee for unlimited titles.For more information on iTorque Studio Licensing please contact licensing@garagegames.com with "iToqrue Studio"' in the subject line.
Torque Owner Andrew Whittle
I have faith in them though and will just pick away at the engine until then.
Looking forward to it GG! Keep the updates coming.