Game Development Community

Status of TDN

by Michael Perry · in Torque Developer Network · 01/28/2009 (2:31 pm) · 94 replies

For anyone who has tried accessing TDN over the past month, you may have run into login issues. We are quite aware of the problem, however solving the issue is proving more difficult than we anticipated.

Tech Information

TDN was created quite a while ago:
* MediaWiki: 1.5.5
* PHP: 5.1.6 (apache2handler
* MySQL: 5.0.45-log

Compare that to the latest version of MediaWiki:
MediaWiki 1.15alpha (r46424)
PHP 5.2.4-2ubuntu5wm1 (apache2handler)
MySQL 4.0.40-wikimedia-log

TDN is outdated by 10 versions! This is a cause of concern because we are working with outdated functionality and outdated security measures. Late in 2008 TDN was compromised, which is why it was brought down temporarily. While the content was updated, the framework was neglected to the point where updating TDN to the latest version of MediaWiki is a major hurdle.

Short Term Solutions

For those of you who have access to all of TDN without any login problems, you are good to go.

If you have access to TDN, but cannot get into the starter kit pages (Adventure Kit, Platformer Kit, and RTS Kit), we will be downloading and converting the pages to work within our Doc System framework. A new download link will be added to your account page to download the docs.

The big problem is with users who cannot log into TDN. This is because TDN is unable to create new accounts in the database. If you are given a link that goes to TDN, you can contact me or post in this thread. I will manually grab the doc and send it to you.

Long Term Plans

I am going to be dedicating more and more of my time to creating new content for our official docs. Spending time maintaining TDN tech and trying to fix old content will be a detriment to the official docs. We are weighing our options right now.

I am definitely going to work out a solution to start grabbing the best of the TDN docs and rolling them into our official sources. That's a hefty task, but when complete this may result in not needing TDN anymore. Again, we are still working out a plan of action.

Using This Thread

This will be the place to post your need for specific tutorials. Also, whenever I have news about the status of TDN I will post it here. I'm locking down the other threads so we can start pushing more readers to this location. Feel free to send this link to anyone else who is experiencing TDN difficulties.

I appreciate the patience everyone has shown. I'll try to do my best to help get this content into your hands.
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Torque Owner Mike Rowley
Mike Rowley
#21
02/01/2009 (8:23 am)
If you need a temporary home for the wiki, I can provide that. I have plenty of bandwidth and can setup a wiki in a few minutes.

I can do proof reading of a wiki, but I'm not a wiki programmer and it's code makes my eyes go crossed. I can't even figure out how to add a link to code that already has a link. :-/

noticed I'm using php4, so am awaiting a responce from my host as to their plans to upgrade to php 5



Torque 3D Owner Frogger
#22
02/01/2009 (1:55 pm)
Hello,

I just sent you an email (I think through the contact us page), and I would be happy to dedicate time to slowly upgrading MediaWiki to the latest version. I would say that in order for this to happen, we will probably need to go from the current version and slowly update to the latest available version. Version 1.6 will be the first hurdle, and then we can continue from there. This is indeed quite painful, but I think it is entirely possible. Ben's Elixir extension and modifications to the login/logout functionality to match the website will be the primary places where the greatest concern will be.

I also think it would be great to directly have the wiki a part of the website, so that its use is transparent for users.

Like I said before, I don't mind tackling the beast that is MediaWiki. Just contact me here or through email. I also stick around on IRC, so you can find me there.

Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
#23
02/02/2009 (10:46 am)
@Carl - Send me an e-mail (michaelp@garagegames.com). I can give you the Forrest Kit pages/files.

@Everyone else - Awesome. I like this kind of support. I still want to get a few more volunteers to make sure we do not burn out.

I will be joining a small, internal meeting about long term TDN plans this week. I will draft out a more detailed plan about who would be willing to help if we revitalize TDN and how that would be accomplished within a time frame.

If you are still on board, take a few days to let your mind relax and breathe a little. When the bell rings, the match is *on*.

Torque 3D Owner Novack
CyberianSoftware
#24
02/02/2009 (11:01 am)
"Right! ... Where are we going...?"

Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
#25
02/02/2009 (11:29 am)
Update on TDN Kits:

I've saved the content for the Adventure Kit and Ben Garney's Forrest Kit. If you need these, please e-mail me directly.

I'll be moving on to the Platformer Starter Kit and RTS next. Someone offered to help with the RTS kit, so that will probably happen some time soon.


Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
#26
02/04/2009 (11:10 am)
Update on TDN Kits

You can find the new Forrest Pack TDN Links here:

Installation Article

Manual

If you would like to download these pages in a clean format, you can e-mail me directly.

Torque Owner CSMP
MP Studios
#27
02/06/2009 (3:40 pm)
We'll try and help as much as possible.

Torque Owner Andrea Fraboni
C4DGames
#28
02/07/2009 (5:53 am)
I can't access to TDN RTS too why ???

Torque Owner TheGasMan
G.A.S. [+others]
#29
02/07/2009 (6:18 am)
@MichaelPerry

I am interested in backing up AnyThIng I can legally host on a spare server of mine. ..as long as I am alive, the server will remain up and publicly accessible without viewing/read restrictions.( <<more to come on that note)

Perhaps I will catch you in IRC sometime soon and we can have a chat to see if something is viable.
I am using this for temp:torque.abigholeintheweb.com/public_system/artists/exporter_related/max/

// ======
This is not just directed to Michael, but to the public as well. If I can legally host your files (tutorials or resources/patches/exporters/scripts/etc.) for other developers, I will. I will blog about this as soon as I figure out some more details.

Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
#30
02/07/2009 (12:00 pm)
@Andrea - There is an internal error we are resolving by downloading the TDN files, converting them, and providing them to you directly when they are ready. The RTS kit is the last one to port, which we are working on right now. I'll post here when it is ready.

@eb - Much thanks =) I might call on you when when/if we get to that

Braedon "Ellimist" Hinchcliffe
#31
02/11/2009 (12:59 pm)
In the last 2+ years I have only ever found TDN to have little information and of that informations most of it is outdated usually. If GG is working on better official documentation then good riddence to TDN.

Torque Owner Eric Schuld
#32
02/15/2009 (3:56 pm)
Shot you an email Michael.

About kits I own - and - about help if you are still looking.

Torque Owner Dan Dias
#33
02/17/2009 (5:04 pm)
I'd like to help out. The TDN has been a great source for me as I learn. However, at times it has been an even greater frustration. I progress through the first few pages of a tutorial and see more to come. That is, after I've had to hunt down what functions were changed in the newest version of Torque.
I am a scripter/programmer first and an English nut second. I've done some minor editing on the TDN when I notice something. Had I known the TDN was in such a horrible state, I would have done more. So this is my chance to make up for that!

Eamonn Glass
#34
02/17/2009 (10:48 pm)
I have to say that as someone new trying ot learn about the Torque products, the documentation really needs work. Combined with the copious 404s in the site re-design and some usability factors in the re-design... it can be really difficult to get current informative, quality documentation.

Here's an example:
1. go to this page:
http://docs.garagegames.com/tgea/
2. click on "developer FAQ"
3. 404

Another:
1. go to this page:
http://docs.garagegames.com/tgea/
2. click on "Introductory Tutorial"
3. I am dumped into a set of documentation that seems potentially current, but is completely different than the TDN documentaiton format

Another:
1. go to this page:
http://docs.garagegames.com/tgea/
2. click on "GUI Editor Documentation / Introductory Tutorial"
3. 404 inside the other documentation frameset

Another:
1. go to this page:
http://docs.garagegames.com/tgea/
2. click on "TorqueScript Overview"
3. I get sent to TDN, I only know it's TDN because I have messed about so much that I know some documentation is on TDN and some documentation is in the other frameset format
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/TorqueScript

... but is that Torque Scropt Overview for TGE? TGEA? Both? What are the differences between versions? Should I trust the TDN docs more than the other official docs?

Another:
1. Find me some current documentaiton on TGEA 1.8x MegaTerrains
.. I can't find any.

==

A huge concern in looking at TGEA as an engine is the historical complaints about poor documentation. I'd like to believe that is addressed (as some people indicate). But myself and other guys researching TGEA do not find that to be the case.

I know there is lots of work being applied here, but with some many engines and so many versions is Garage Games staffed appropriately to provide the kind of quality documentation each of those very complex products requires?

egg

Torque 3D Owner Novack
CyberianSoftware
#35
02/18/2009 (2:56 am)
Dear @Eamonn:

Didn't you noticed this specific thread is entitled Status of TDN?

Please try to look for the correct place for your comments next time; for instance, for documentation, or even site feedback, there are already many other threads.

Thank you.

Torque Owner Randy Hearn - Magnum
Default Studio Name
#36
03/01/2009 (9:17 am)
Michael,

I apologize I did not have this link checked to notify of replies. Can you give a short update on the status?

Is there anything we can do to help? I was about to edit a few TDN pages, then figured I should find/check this thread.


Torque 3D Owner Frogger
#37
03/06/2009 (11:40 pm)
Hey everyone!

I wanted to post some quick comments about my progress.

I've managed to get all the articles over to a new wiki, and things are running great. I've gotten a lot of images/files, and I hope to acquire the rest soon :P
All of the templates should be over now, some are pretty worthless and should be removed.

I have integrated the wiki with the theme of the main GG website, so things are more convenient: s5.tinypic.com/qzez52.jpg

Code highlighting now works (I will try adding it for TorqueScript as well soon), and video support is the next thing I want to add, so that we can have video submissions directly implemented with tutorials (especially those that are particularly complicated).

I might write some extensions to handle forum links, so you don't have to think as much. The page editor will also probably get an overhaul to help everyone write useful, organized articles.

There are still some lingering issues, such as articles where people used <img> or <a> tags instead of the wiki formatted tags (ARGH!).

I hope you are as excited about TDN as I am, and wish to improve it to something that is incredibly useful for the entire community. Michael has been very supportive of my efforts thus far, so if GG knows that people are still interested, we have a better chance of keeping TDN around. The most important thing to remember is that TDN is a community supported effort.

Thanks!

Torque Owner Marcus Fernstrom
#38
03/07/2009 (9:59 am)
TDN really has the potential to be a *huge* asset to the community.

But I keep running into bad things on it.

Such as unfinished tutorials, "The next section will be finished in 2 weeks"(That was 3 years ago, and the previous pages had gotten updates..)

Links that are supposed to hold information but just have a single line saying things like "GUI's are the files name *.ui" and similar (Note that my example isn't real, just an example of the kind of links I see).

Now, I wouldn't mind writing lots of stuff for the TDN, but I'm not good enough to do it, I use it to look up info and help, and most of the time I end up at dead ends, that's really sad because I do understand the importance and potential for the TDN.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not *all* about whining ;)

But the TDN doesn't just need a haul-over in the "looks" department or updated to a new version of the databases it runs, but also content-wise.

Torque 3D Owner Frogger
#39
03/07/2009 (9:54 pm)
I think the most difficult problem right now is that there's a LOT of content, and finding an acceptable to organize all of it is quite a pain. I'm currently running some bots on the articles to move and rename appropriately. Also, categories are being cleaned up and I'm putting it in a hierarchical setup that the latest wikis support.

If anyone has ideas about the specific tree-like structure TDN should take on, talk to us! I have come up with different ideas, and I would like to have things much more rigidly placed. No more empty articles, or "here's a zip, go do it yourself" sort of things (Although zips with a good article are great).

Seriously, organization is crazy-difficult to get down right. :)

Torque Owner Marcus Fernstrom
#40
03/08/2009 (1:58 am)
Yes there IS alot of information.

But also a bunch of broken links (Such as the page with the main link to the TDN..)

Also, how about a pure "Here's a list of all the tutorials on TDN, catagorized after engine/topic"?

If I want TGE stuff only, I can go in the tutorial section and find TGE tutorials, and same for TGEA, RTS, Official kits, etc.

I've also seen a bunch of things on the forum that can, and in my opinion should, be made into easy to read articles on TDN.
See, one of the problems with using the forum is that someone puts up an article about a big solution, or a new resource, but you still have to swim through all the posts about it in order to find the updates, other's fixes on it, and so on.

Hm, just some random ideas from a sleepdeprived mind.
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