Code / script documentation: Where's the beef?
by Keith Merrill · in Combat Starter Kit · 01/11/2009 (6:40 pm) · 13 replies
A content pack of this size and complexity really ought to have a code / script level design document or two to accompany it. Really, just about anything at that level would help...
Having worked with some undocumented and poorly documented engines in the past for other commercial projects, I'd have to say from experience that it is one of the single biggest barriers to entry and sources of productivity loss that I can think of. Likewise, I'm sure the GG crew would concur w.r.t. to the Torque engine's lack of good docs a few years back.
So, rather than pondering new features, TGEA ports or other things, I urge you instead to consider another round of polish for this $100 product which includes more details on exactly what has been changed and why at a code / script level. To his credit, Ashley Kelly has already enumerated some of these changes in forum posts. However, I feel that we just need more, at a deeper level and included with the CSK package itself.
After all, it would be shame to pass over such a rich piece of work because we had to troll through traces of source code and script with breakpoints to derive the author's original intentions. I'd rather be tracing through my own source and scripts thanks.
What do other people think?
Perhaps I've missed the point or am not as DIY keen as I used to be.
Having worked with some undocumented and poorly documented engines in the past for other commercial projects, I'd have to say from experience that it is one of the single biggest barriers to entry and sources of productivity loss that I can think of. Likewise, I'm sure the GG crew would concur w.r.t. to the Torque engine's lack of good docs a few years back.
So, rather than pondering new features, TGEA ports or other things, I urge you instead to consider another round of polish for this $100 product which includes more details on exactly what has been changed and why at a code / script level. To his credit, Ashley Kelly has already enumerated some of these changes in forum posts. However, I feel that we just need more, at a deeper level and included with the CSK package itself.
After all, it would be shame to pass over such a rich piece of work because we had to troll through traces of source code and script with breakpoints to derive the author's original intentions. I'd rather be tracing through my own source and scripts thanks.
What do other people think?
Perhaps I've missed the point or am not as DIY keen as I used to be.
#2
01/14/2009 (10:12 am)
Cheers CSMP, thanks for validating my point. I'm trying to open a direct dialog with Ashley Kelly to see if we can address this. 
#3
01/14/2009 (9:45 pm)
That would be a good idea Keith, As Documentation can get us out of the forums and into the engine.
#4
I wrote a big chunk of the script code.
what would you like explained?
01/28/2009 (8:02 pm)
Documentation isnt easy to write -- but thats no excuse for not writing any.I wrote a big chunk of the script code.
what would you like explained?
#5
01/29/2009 (9:00 am)
yes, how do you get the aiplayers or any other object to show up in commanderMap
#6
01/31/2009 (5:07 am)
To amplify my question, I know I can change the mask in guiCommandMap.cc. The problems is that the aiplayer and any player is very small. I would like to use the larger rings for the aiplayer simular to the player icon. I think the player icon is related to the client controling player but I want it related to the aiplayer in a simular way.
#7
1. What were the changes and why were they made to the vehicle.cc/wheeledvehicle.cc processtick/updateforces/updateforces_mp?
2. How would i use the transmission without using the CSK updateforces or vehCamera?
3. How would i use the weapons reload/clip/muzzlelift functions without the FPS hack?
4. zipCrypt: never could get it to work, even through all ashleys instructions.
I'll add more as i think of them.
02/02/2009 (4:10 pm)
Currently I've been working on getting needed functions into TGE from CSK, And since you asked heres a couple of problems im having:1. What were the changes and why were they made to the vehicle.cc/wheeledvehicle.cc processtick/updateforces/updateforces_mp?
2. How would i use the transmission without using the CSK updateforces or vehCamera?
3. How would i use the weapons reload/clip/muzzlelift functions without the FPS hack?
4. zipCrypt: never could get it to work, even through all ashleys instructions.
I'll add more as i think of them.
#8
02/04/2009 (3:12 pm)
Basically i would like the player without the FPS hack and the Vehicles without the Advancedtiming changes or camera hack.
#9
but as for AI players on the commander map, I remember Duncan talking about the icons being hard coded into the commander map code -- exactly where, I dunno, but that is a place you can start.
For question 3 -- I may be able to help with that.
what do you mean by "FPS Hack" ?
by muzzlelift - do you mean weapon recoil?
For the reload and clip functions - what have you done so far? and what doesnt work?
02/04/2009 (11:59 pm)
Well most of what Fred and CSMP are asking is in the engine code -- I stayed out of that as much as possible.but as for AI players on the commander map, I remember Duncan talking about the icons being hard coded into the commander map code -- exactly where, I dunno, but that is a place you can start.
For question 3 -- I may be able to help with that.
what do you mean by "FPS Hack" ?
by muzzlelift - do you mean weapon recoil?
For the reload and clip functions - what have you done so far? and what doesnt work?
#10
weapon recoil is correct.
P.S. thanks for the effort and help with the teams.
02/06/2009 (3:17 pm)
FPS Hack being the function that shows the animated 1st person hands... and shoots bullets from the players eye... but im going to try and remove the FPS Hack and port the player.cc back into TGE1.5.2 again, and if i have problems this time I'll let you know exactly what functions where troublesome.weapon recoil is correct.
P.S. thanks for the effort and help with the teams.
#11
I don't like the "cheaterness" of seeing through objects when pushback is off and I definitely don't like the bugged collision when it is on, but looking through the source tracking that Hack down is near impossible.
I won't even mention the illogic of the vehicle mods and some of the other (physics/collision) changes.
02/06/2009 (5:24 pm)
How about documenting the weaponImage "push back" Hack for when you run into an object. It appears to be turned off, as mentioned in a blog, but allows you to view into and through Interiors and other objects. When you toggle it on, it works and the weapon will push back in the player's hands without penetrating the object. However, and this is a nasty one, if using a small weapon (knife or pistol) there is a faulty collision in which the player will fall through the Interior and then through the terrain. With the fact that this was a listed feature and yet it being turned off it's almost like you guys knew it was bugged.I don't like the "cheaterness" of seeing through objects when pushback is off and I definitely don't like the bugged collision when it is on, but looking through the source tracking that Hack down is near impossible.
I won't even mention the illogic of the vehicle mods and some of the other (physics/collision) changes.
Quote:A content pack of this size and complexity really ought to have a code / script level design document or two to accompany it.Even a few comments here and there would have helped. It's like you guys expected everyone to just accept the kit as is without us needing or wanting to make corrections and alterations, especially corrections.
#12
http://www.garagegames.com/community/resources/view/10241 -- so you can start there.
as for documentation - here is a blurb from assaultrifle.cs:
//Weapon Recoil Hooks
recoilPitchFactor = 0.004; //Pitch recoil
recoilPitchRandomize = 3; //Range to randomize (-/+)
recoilYawFactor = 0.0004; //Yaw recoil
recoilYawRandomize = 2; //Range to randomize (-/+)
what did I miss when adding comments?
the FPS hack, or animated hands is done with LOD detials - thats really all I know. Ahsley and Duncan and I think 1 more engine coder worked on that part of it.
Again - these are engine changes which I try to stay away from. But i can try to relate some of what I saw in chat while we were doing development.
02/07/2009 (10:41 am)
ok for the weapon recoil - its based off this resource:http://www.garagegames.com/community/resources/view/10241 -- so you can start there.
as for documentation - here is a blurb from assaultrifle.cs:
//Weapon Recoil Hooks
recoilPitchFactor = 0.004; //Pitch recoil
recoilPitchRandomize = 3; //Range to randomize (-/+)
recoilYawFactor = 0.0004; //Yaw recoil
recoilYawRandomize = 2; //Range to randomize (-/+)
what did I miss when adding comments?
the FPS hack, or animated hands is done with LOD detials - thats really all I know. Ahsley and Duncan and I think 1 more engine coder worked on that part of it.
Again - these are engine changes which I try to stay away from. But i can try to relate some of what I saw in chat while we were doing development.
#13
We tried not to hack or cheat but TGE doesn't have a great physics package built in so we made do with what we had to work with.
03/10/2009 (10:13 pm)
Been away on personal business a while but I'll be happy to provide what I can about engine code changes. We tried not to hack or cheat but TGE doesn't have a great physics package built in so we made do with what we had to work with.
Torque Owner CSMP
MP Studios