What would you like to see addressed in Torque 3D?
by Matt Fairfax · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 01/09/2009 (7:10 pm) · 281 replies
Hi all,
We've asked before but I thought I would take the opportunity to build a fresh list of what you would like to see addressed in Torque.
This can be everything from a long-standing bug, to a resource that is so useful you find yourself integrating it over and over, to a complete wish for something. Whatever it is we want to hear it!
Please keep in mind that just because you ask for it doesn't mean that you will get it. I am making no promises but it is always helpful to us to hear what you are interested in or concerned about.
Our community is hugely diverse and something that is absolutely essential and of the highest priority to you and your game may actually be something that other games never use so don't take it personally if we don't address your specific concern.
I am going to make sure that everything specific that you mention gets logged into our task tacker so that it can be prioritized and reviewed even if we don't get to it for Torque 3D. I say "specific" because statements like "vehicles suck" aren't useful to us however if you can narrow it down to "FlyingVehicles crash when they run into the ground too fast" then it is something we can look into.
I am very serious about this...if you ever want a chance at having your concerns addressed then you need to speak up.
We've asked before but I thought I would take the opportunity to build a fresh list of what you would like to see addressed in Torque.
This can be everything from a long-standing bug, to a resource that is so useful you find yourself integrating it over and over, to a complete wish for something. Whatever it is we want to hear it!
Please keep in mind that just because you ask for it doesn't mean that you will get it. I am making no promises but it is always helpful to us to hear what you are interested in or concerned about.
Our community is hugely diverse and something that is absolutely essential and of the highest priority to you and your game may actually be something that other games never use so don't take it personally if we don't address your specific concern.
I am going to make sure that everything specific that you mention gets logged into our task tacker so that it can be prioritized and reviewed even if we don't get to it for Torque 3D. I say "specific" because statements like "vehicles suck" aren't useful to us however if you can narrow it down to "FlyingVehicles crash when they run into the ground too fast" then it is something we can look into.
I am very serious about this...if you ever want a chance at having your concerns addressed then you need to speak up.
About the author
I am a Game Designer at PopCap who has worked on PvZ Adventures, PvZ2, Peggle Blast, and Bejeweled Skies. I am an ex-GarageGames employee who helped ship TGE, TGEA, Torque 3D, and Constructor.
#202
Replicator/Staticshape painting with painttool-like properties where you could control scattering/density, falloff and radius etc. via simple modifiers.
Saving what you paint to "layermaps", grayscale maps similar to heightmaps would be nice.
If possible, using bitmaps with alpha as "brushes" for painting these replicators/shapes would be sweet.
This bitmap-as-brush feature would also come in handy when texturepainting and geometrypainting as well.
Keymodifier improvements would also be great IMO.
I'd love to use keymodifiers similar to Maya/Max/Silo etc. where you press shift, alt or ctrl and left-middle-right mouse for different operations. For instance, with above example say you are "painting" scattered rocks and want to expand radius a great way would be "alt+scrollwheel up".
Locking camera on object/marker/etc in editor.
Something that I've gotten used to in Maya/Silo etc. is that the camera "locks" to the object I'm editing. Something similar would be sweet, perhaps a solution where you place a marker that the camera always pan/zoom/rotate around this marker.
Some ideas that would be really nice to see in T3D imho :)
01/31/2009 (7:10 am)
I know that improvements to the placement of replicators has been discussed but I didn't see any specifics, maybe I missed it but here is my suggestions:Replicator/Staticshape painting with painttool-like properties where you could control scattering/density, falloff and radius etc. via simple modifiers.
Saving what you paint to "layermaps", grayscale maps similar to heightmaps would be nice.
If possible, using bitmaps with alpha as "brushes" for painting these replicators/shapes would be sweet.
This bitmap-as-brush feature would also come in handy when texturepainting and geometrypainting as well.
Keymodifier improvements would also be great IMO.
I'd love to use keymodifiers similar to Maya/Max/Silo etc. where you press shift, alt or ctrl and left-middle-right mouse for different operations. For instance, with above example say you are "painting" scattered rocks and want to expand radius a great way would be "alt+scrollwheel up".
Locking camera on object/marker/etc in editor.
Something that I've gotten used to in Maya/Silo etc. is that the camera "locks" to the object I'm editing. Something similar would be sweet, perhaps a solution where you place a marker that the camera always pan/zoom/rotate around this marker.
Some ideas that would be really nice to see in T3D imho :)
#203
it would be very very convenient if the engine supported what i call "aggregated triggers" or something similar. this is where multiple triggers act as a single trigger.
eg, if two triggers A and B are aggregated, then you are in the aggregated trigger if you are either in A or in B or in both, and not in the aggregated trigger if you are in neither. onEnter() and onLeave() behave accordingly.
the goal is so that you can have non-rectilinear triggers.
for example U-shaped.
this is implemented as the SimSpace resource.
02/02/2009 (3:08 pm)
trigger aggregationit would be very very convenient if the engine supported what i call "aggregated triggers" or something similar. this is where multiple triggers act as a single trigger.
eg, if two triggers A and B are aggregated, then you are in the aggregated trigger if you are either in A or in B or in both, and not in the aggregated trigger if you are in neither. onEnter() and onLeave() behave accordingly.
the goal is so that you can have non-rectilinear triggers.
for example U-shaped.
this is implemented as the SimSpace resource.
#204
a discounted upgrade for TGE owners that never upgraded to TGEA. (like me, i bought it in '06) sort of a incentive to get them to come back and upgrade to your new engine.
i would love to hear GG's thoughts on this.
02/03/2009 (1:46 am)
i have suggestion, not so much for the engine but for the implementation of it in your line of products.a discounted upgrade for TGE owners that never upgraded to TGEA. (like me, i bought it in '06) sort of a incentive to get them to come back and upgrade to your new engine.
i would love to hear GG's thoughts on this.
#205
02/03/2009 (7:09 am)
Another suggestion: Allowing you to open the mission editor while in fullscreen. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I think it would be a great improvement. 
#206
02/03/2009 (7:43 am)
Quote:Allowing you to open the mission editor while in fullscreen... I think it would be a great improvement.I agree. I could bitch for days about that very subject. That was one of the more annoying things about switching to TGEa from TGE -- more so than all of my decal effects suddenly not working!
#207
02/03/2009 (8:36 am)
:D It kind of annoyed me in the demo, I kept maximizing it, but Maximize is significantly slower than going fullscreen.
#208
1) Platform menus don't work in fullscreen
2) Platform file dialogs appear "behind" the fullscreen window and are unusable (actually can make it very difficult to get back to your mission editing).
The older Torque menu system is a reasonable replacement for Platform menus but we've never had a good Torque file dialog (just a bunch of "meh" ones) and I am hesitant to spend a bunch of resources on one that still won't come anywhere near the functionality of a stock Platform file dialog (have you ever looked at just how much those suckers are doing).
It is on our radar (Steven Garcia was just bugging me about it the other day) but I hold it as a low priority item (annoying but not ultimately that much of a productivity killer).
02/03/2009 (10:58 am)
Two main reasons you can't edit missions in fullscreen:1) Platform menus don't work in fullscreen
2) Platform file dialogs appear "behind" the fullscreen window and are unusable (actually can make it very difficult to get back to your mission editing).
The older Torque menu system is a reasonable replacement for Platform menus but we've never had a good Torque file dialog (just a bunch of "meh" ones) and I am hesitant to spend a bunch of resources on one that still won't come anywhere near the functionality of a stock Platform file dialog (have you ever looked at just how much those suckers are doing).
It is on our radar (Steven Garcia was just bugging me about it the other day) but I hold it as a low priority item (annoying but not ultimately that much of a productivity killer).
#209
02/03/2009 (11:55 am)
I am not being facetious when I post this... what I would like to see is a roadmap for T3D and a schedule. We all know these things can change, but there is an impact on planning and development activities on TGEA today that is very different if T3D is 3 months away versus 30 months away.
#210
Sadly that hasn't held very true for the GG community over the years.
We are planning to show off a lot of Torque 3D at GDC (last week of March). Beyond that the schedule is still in flux.
02/03/2009 (12:38 pm)
Quote:
We all know these things can change
Sadly that hasn't held very true for the GG community over the years.
We are planning to show off a lot of Torque 3D at GDC (last week of March). Beyond that the schedule is still in flux.
#211
02/03/2009 (1:18 pm)
I would hazard ageanst posting any type of road map or even giving a rough date. As much as I would like to know when to expect T3D as the next person. We have seen over the last 8 years that no matter what some say that the community as a whole tends to take any word or timeline (even if its posted with big bold letters saying these are just rough estimates) as set in stone. It does ALOT more harm then any good :(
#212
1. Wait for GG to release Torque 3D.
2. ...
3. PHAT STACKS OF CASH, WOOH!
02/03/2009 (1:54 pm)
Here is my roadmap:1. Wait for GG to release Torque 3D.
2. ...
3. PHAT STACKS OF CASH, WOOH!
#213
Matt, are you able to clarify this response a bit? I can see why a full TGB style editor would be out of the question, but were you also referring to the behavior system as too much effort?
I ask because I have really been hanging out for a TGB style behavior system for quite a while.
02/03/2009 (3:35 pm)
Quote:Michael K: I'd like to see an editor as in tgb 1.7.1 with a behavior system (of course in a 3d environment).
You just "drop in" your 3d Object and click to assign your custom made behavior to any of the objects.... now that would increase production speed drastically.
Quote:Matt Fairfax: Sadly this kind of functionality requires far too large an engineering effort for us to include it in Torque 3D. However, this is the direction we are headed for future versions of Torque and we have already committed quite a bit of resources towards it.
Matt, are you able to clarify this response a bit? I can see why a full TGB style editor would be out of the question, but were you also referring to the behavior system as too much effort?
I ask because I have really been hanging out for a TGB style behavior system for quite a while.
#214
That's unfortunate Matt. You'd think that folks experienced with software project would understand that things can fluctuate. Having said that, my experience is that well managed software projects need not fluctuate much more than 30% from targets (financial / schedule / features).
I won't be attending GDC this year, but look forward to reports.
Is there any ballpark ETA for T3D? Like is it a 2009 project? Or a 2010? I ask because I'm working with a team who is contemplating embarking on a TGEA project. We'd likely adjust our approach if T3D is due for June 2009 in a different way than if we're looking at June 2010.
02/03/2009 (7:45 pm)
Quote:
Sadly that hasn't held very true for the GG community over the years.
We are planning to show off a lot of Torque 3D at GDC (last week of March). Beyond that the schedule is still in flux.
That's unfortunate Matt. You'd think that folks experienced with software project would understand that things can fluctuate. Having said that, my experience is that well managed software projects need not fluctuate much more than 30% from targets (financial / schedule / features).
I won't be attending GDC this year, but look forward to reports.
Is there any ballpark ETA for T3D? Like is it a 2009 project? Or a 2010? I ask because I'm working with a team who is contemplating embarking on a TGEA project. We'd likely adjust our approach if T3D is due for June 2009 in a different way than if we're looking at June 2010.
#215
02/03/2009 (8:21 pm)
It is definitely a 2009 project (with a relatively quick turn around). 
#216
1. Break out the "world editor inspector" and "World editor creator" so they can both be available on the screen at the same time.
2. Fix the problem with the inspector/scene tree where when you add an item, it looks like it's selected, but it's not - you have to select another item and then reselect it to be able to edit it. There's a related bug where you can get two items selected at one time, and its hard to deselect them.
3. A scratch pad - Basically, just a panel you could drop shapes, objects, interiors, (etc) on. You would be able to add the items to the world by dragging the from the scratch pad. When designing a scene, I use a relatively small number of shapes, and it's a pain to keep finding them in the tree...
4. A preview window for the selected shape/static shape in the creator(could be a simple GuiObjectView in a window somewhere).
5. Ability to set a property to "freeze" items in the editor, so they are not selectable. So those big ones with the big bounding boxes don't stop you from getting to the smaller items all the time. :(
6. Ability to set a property to "hide" items in the editor (maybe draw in wireframe or with 75% transparency).
7. Don't create objects in the World Editor Creator when clicked on. Make it so they have to be dragged and dropped into the scene, and then create them at the dropped location.
8. Docking, tabbing, etc of all the dialogs in the editor. Just like VS2008. :)
02/03/2009 (9:04 pm)
Well, since you're asking for editor specifics, here's some things I would like to see in the world editor: 1. Break out the "world editor inspector" and "World editor creator" so they can both be available on the screen at the same time.
2. Fix the problem with the inspector/scene tree where when you add an item, it looks like it's selected, but it's not - you have to select another item and then reselect it to be able to edit it. There's a related bug where you can get two items selected at one time, and its hard to deselect them.
3. A scratch pad - Basically, just a panel you could drop shapes, objects, interiors, (etc) on. You would be able to add the items to the world by dragging the from the scratch pad. When designing a scene, I use a relatively small number of shapes, and it's a pain to keep finding them in the tree...
4. A preview window for the selected shape/static shape in the creator(could be a simple GuiObjectView in a window somewhere).
5. Ability to set a property to "freeze" items in the editor, so they are not selectable. So those big ones with the big bounding boxes don't stop you from getting to the smaller items all the time. :(
6. Ability to set a property to "hide" items in the editor (maybe draw in wireframe or with 75% transparency).
7. Don't create objects in the World Editor Creator when clicked on. Make it so they have to be dragged and dropped into the scene, and then create them at the dropped location.
8. Docking, tabbing, etc of all the dialogs in the editor. Just like VS2008. :)
#217
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2. A modern 3D model format that doesn't have fundamental limits because of 16-bit indices.
-----------
The current tri limit makes next gen character models impossible unless you rewrite a bunch of code to allow for multiple meshes to a skeleton (correct me if I'm wrong).
By the way, I'm a "Torque Owner" locked out of my main account because you're log in / account authorization system broke one me, so posting from an alternate account.
02/03/2009 (11:03 pm)
I'd just like to add my vote to Andy Pfiffer's number 2 request,-----------
2. A modern 3D model format that doesn't have fundamental limits because of 16-bit indices.
-----------
The current tri limit makes next gen character models impossible unless you rewrite a bunch of code to allow for multiple meshes to a skeleton (correct me if I'm wrong).
By the way, I'm a "Torque Owner" locked out of my main account because you're log in / account authorization system broke one me, so posting from an alternate account.
#218
I can sympathize with that, simply because I do code myself. I can see how that would annoy you...recoding T_T...
It would be nice to see new stuff though, just a suggestion, and this is the "What would you like to see in T3D" thread.
That's also nice to hear, I'm planning on getting torque this year and I'd rather wait for T3D...I'm guessing there is no set season though?
I just want to see a good demo showing off some stuff, the demos so far have been good, allowing editing and all, but in the T3D demos could you allow external resources?
02/04/2009 (9:09 am)
Quote:Matt Fairfax: It is on our radar (Steven Garcia was just bugging me about it the other day) but I hold it as a low priority item (annoying but not ultimately that much of a productivity killer).
I can sympathize with that, simply because I do code myself. I can see how that would annoy you...recoding T_T...
It would be nice to see new stuff though, just a suggestion, and this is the "What would you like to see in T3D" thread.
Quote:Matt Fairfax: It is definitely a 2009 project (with a relatively quick turn around).
That's also nice to hear, I'm planning on getting torque this year and I'd rather wait for T3D...I'm guessing there is no set season though?
I just want to see a good demo showing off some stuff, the demos so far have been good, allowing editing and all, but in the T3D demos could you allow external resources?
#219
I can't even think of anything now.
I hope most of that gets done.
Great idea for the list too.
02/05/2009 (5:16 pm)
Wow What a list!I can't even think of anything now.
I hope most of that gets done.
Great idea for the list too.
#220
Of course not talking about high level game-feature kind of resources, but if you look -for instance- at the list of resources submited by guys like Orion Elenzil, you'll have an idea of what Im talking about.
02/05/2009 (6:58 pm)
@Matt: I dont know at what point to be specific on requests, but there are a bunch of community resources that would do great integrated in the engine.Of course not talking about high level game-feature kind of resources, but if you look -for instance- at the list of resources submited by guys like Orion Elenzil, you'll have an idea of what Im talking about.
Associate Orion Elenzil
Real Life Plus
for the ones which we've actually implemented i might be able to share code as well, although sometimes that can be difficult due to drift in the underlying engines.