PC Piracy Charts

#1 Having played Spore and considering how far off it was from actually being a fun game, I'm inclined to think the piracy rate is more of a social backlash to the draconic DRM efforts put into the product by Electronic Arts.

#2 I have to agree with Brian on this one...

#3 I think i can agree with Brian, Spore has so many things that were so far off the advertised hipe. DRM, lack of true multiplayer, lack of unique game play.. if you set the unique models aside. its a pretty linear game play.

#4 I respectfully disagree. Without DRM, I believe spore would be even more pirated. Yes, it was overhyped - Hype leads to Demand. Demand leads to sales and piracy. With the rise of broadband, the anonymity of the internet that leads to a lack of consequences for stealing software, and a punk culture with an "entitlement" mentality that believes stealing from "the man" is somehow honorable, i think that without DRM, there would be significantly less sales of software.

#5 Well i never said that piracy was right, and i never condone it, but the reasons set out by Brian do make a point. The reality of such numbers however mean that less profit means less games can be made. Thats where the true crime of piracy hits home. those devs are just like us getting a paycheck. So yah. can totally see where that punk mentaility goes. but also I understand the consquences. I dont know DRM never stops anyone who wants to pirate anyway.. at this point most of those protection programs are cracked a day before they are publically released anyway.. so sometimes i wonder.

#6 I guess I'm a unique person. I love what I've seen from Bioshock and Mass Effect, but the attitude towards treating the customer as a suspect by having such insulting amounts of controls to keep me, a paying customer, from pirating software that I've already purchased has made me steer clear of those products, and for the most part, EA.

I don't like being treated like a suspect or a criminal. So I vote with my walet and my voice.

And I doubt seriously that piracy is any higher now that it was in the early days of BBS's. I'd wager that the percentage is likely quite similar, but there's no way to actually prove it. The only reason you see reports of higher piracy is that the channels of piracy are more transparent( /em point Pirate Bay).

#7 @Brian - You choose not to purchase and voice your discontent. Perfectly acceptable and rational. Piracy is a stupid way to show discontent, simply because a seeder helps the lazy and cheap download their game faster.

Scan the rest of the list. Most of the games on that list do not use overbearing DRM. Look at Fallout 3. All the game does is a CD check, and even that can be bypassed without a crack.

#8 I'm of the opinion that DRM doesn't really work - at least not for offline games. Online games/multiplayer with keycodes checked against a main database certainly work as an anti-piracy measure (you can pirate but then can't join play, thus there's no point in pirating). As Jaimi mentions, the rise of broadband means huge files can now be downloaded pretty quick, and the security features all cracked by people with -- well, nothing better to do with their time, I guess.

I was wondering if people think that piracy is a big problem for indies?

Personally, (and I ain't basing this on anything but guesswork) I don't think that it is a major issue for indies, as the average warez-user isn't going to bother with low/non advertised games, and the general indy-game-player is probably more appreciative of work/innovation/uniqueness of indy games so is likely to fork out cash. People who send death-threats to the devs of GOW2 because there isn't enough exploding heads, aren't going to notice/care about an indy game.

DRM, when done badly ("this disk will explode after 3 installs" - I've had to reinstall all my software more than that in the last 2 years thanks to disk errors and HDs exploding), DRM can give the paying customer a beating.

[/end_of_huge_generalization]

#9 @Michael
Certainly. The majority of my comments were aimed at slot#1 specifically. Just trying to understand why it's the most pirated, because it's certainly not the most fun on that list.

I'll never say piracy is right, it's just a fact. Piracy as a game developer is a very valid concern. And every developer should do his best to control it within reason. I'm just iritated at the efforts that is put into it by some players. I really don't think piracy hurts as much as the press leads us to be.

Case in point:

Total compensation for 2008 of 8 of the senior staff at Electronic Arts

CEO                     John S. Riccitiello  5,042,382.00
CAO                     Kenneth A. Barker    1,150,000.00
Officer                 V. Paul Lee          4,102,461.00
Director/Chairman of 
    the Board           Lawrence F. Probst	5,666,853.00
President, Divisional   Kathy Vrabeck           33,867.00 (shenanagins?)
President, Divisional   Frank D. Gibeau      3,154,497.00
President, Divisional   Nancy L. Smith         795,820.00
President, Divisional   Peter Moore          3,501,741.00 
                                           ----------------
                           Total            23,447,621.00

That's just 8 of what is likely 20-30 positions that fit in that range... does piracy truely hurt that much?

#10 Hmmm...where are the developers, artists, and producers on that list? You know, the ones that get laid off by the people in that list when a game doesn't sell well...

#11 Using the salaries of the executives isn't the best way to make your point. Granted I am of the mindset that piracy isn't as bad the public is led to believe, specifically because there have been some rather successful games in the past year that had little to no DRM. However, its an unfortunate fact that executives in any industry are grossly overpaid and they are always the one complaining that something is causing their company to lose money be it piracy, production costs, health care costs, etc.

Oddly enough, right after I posted this I saw this story about how Ubisoft is shipping the new Prince of Persia with ZERO DRM on the PC.

Quote:You're right when you say that when people want to pirate the game they will but DRM is there to make it as difficult as possible for pirates to make copies of our games. A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we'll see how truthful people actually are. Not very, I imagine.

#12 Isnt that half the reason , the us is in the problem is in today?

"executives in any industry are grossly overpaid and they are always the one complaining that something is causing their company to lose money be it piracy, production costs, health care costs, etc."

#13 It is indeed. Its kind of sad when you think about it that executives don't have the common sense to turn that money around and reinvest into their company's operations. Of course, a big chunk of executive pay tends to come from stocks, so they do invest to some degree, but they tend to be overpaid even before their stocks are factored in.

#14 Piracy cannot be excused by bad games or high saleries.
But when we talk piracy, do we talk people who crack games and upload them on a free network, or the ones that crack games and resell them cheaper?

I think there is a big difference!

... And if piracy is a problem, then do something about it! If you play a demo of a game, then buy the thing instead of downloading the crack, and if you like a piece of software then buy a license and join the community around it!

#15 Off the top of my head I know two immediate friends who intended to buy Spore but resorted to downloading it when they were told the details of the DRM (3 installs and you're done, say hello to your new Spore coaster). One of those is a guy who is (was?) vehemently anti-piracy. It's also worth noting that the 3 install limitation also means no store will accept it as a trade-in or game exchange deal.

Granted, it's only two people, piracy exists and it would no doubt continue even if games were $5 a pop and DRM free, but I'm reasonably convinced that over-bearing DRM contributed heavily to Spore's extensive piracy.

#16 That is a good question. If a disk has DRM on it.. and you use the numbers.. how do you go about trying to get a store to take it back, particularly since they cant resell it (i mean drm is on the product not the person right?) How does the industry respond to this, i have tried to find a response other then your out of luck with it. Gone are the days of finding a awesome deal at a garage sale. And how does one in this day and age actually go about stamping out piracy anyway without arresting a entire industry overseas or half the population of any college that might, use a torrent, emule or similiar.

#17 Spore is an awful game.

I'm also sick of games with DRM and other annoying copy protection methods which end up me having to find a way to get around it as the paying customer! Lately I've been more disappointed with buying games, I think people may end up turning away from PC games because of the excess copy protection.

Make the games cheaper, and stop screwing around the people who pay.

EDIT: When I brought FarCry 2 (not a good game - also took me a week of complaining to get a fixed exe. that would run!) I was told I couldn't return it due to it been locked in to me as soon as I install it. I don't know about America, but in Australia we have government bodies allowing us to refund products as a standard trading practise.

#18 I've never had any problems with DRM messing up my system, preventing my game from working, or being removed. I've honestly had more problems with system utilities like Norton, MS Word, and so on. Games have never given me any problem.

I hear the horror stories, but have never witnessed it. Hmm...

#19 @Edward

Piracy is a big problem, so don't say games have too much copyright protection on it.

No matter how much protection is on a game, no matter how much the people get overpaid, no matter how easy it is to pirate a game, piracy is wrong. I feel when people say piracy isn't bad, they pirate games they want.

#20 Which Edward? I never have condoned Piracy