Random idea: first-person fighter
by Daniel Buckmaster · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/10/2008 (11:05 am) · 13 replies
I have a thing about games that are third-person. I suddenly had a random thought - what about fighting games? Don't they have a dire need to be third-person? Then I had an awesome (IMO) idea for a first-person fighting game.
Basically, it'd be like Dragon Ball Z style fighting (but without the energy attacks and flying :P), but from first person. The movement is all scripted, and it defines who wins. For example, if you're fighting in a corridor, you force each other up and down. As you hit your opponent more and more, he is forced back - and the opposite when you fail to block his shots. You win by getting the other guy's back against the wall and pummeling his head on it.
I'm still hazy on the actual combat mechanism, but I've had two ideas-
1. You press a button to determine what type of move you're doing (arm attack, arm block, leg attack, leg block) and then sweep the mouse to give the specifics (so if you move the mouse quickly down->up while holding 'arm attack', you do a straight punch).
2. You have a little 'crosshair' which you move across the screen, and hit buttons to make attacks at the location you're looking at.
I like the first idea better, but it seems like it'd be difficult to use the mouse in that frantic way.
Whatever. I thought I'd share this pointless thought :)
Basically, it'd be like Dragon Ball Z style fighting (but without the energy attacks and flying :P), but from first person. The movement is all scripted, and it defines who wins. For example, if you're fighting in a corridor, you force each other up and down. As you hit your opponent more and more, he is forced back - and the opposite when you fail to block his shots. You win by getting the other guy's back against the wall and pummeling his head on it.
I'm still hazy on the actual combat mechanism, but I've had two ideas-
1. You press a button to determine what type of move you're doing (arm attack, arm block, leg attack, leg block) and then sweep the mouse to give the specifics (so if you move the mouse quickly down->up while holding 'arm attack', you do a straight punch).
2. You have a little 'crosshair' which you move across the screen, and hit buttons to make attacks at the location you're looking at.
I like the first idea better, but it seems like it'd be difficult to use the mouse in that frantic way.
Whatever. I thought I'd share this pointless thought :)
About the author
Studying mechatronic engineering and computer science at the University of Sydney. Game development is probably my most time-consuming hobby!
#2
When you reference 3rd person fighting games, are you talking specifically along the lines of the side-view in most games like tekken/mortal kombat? If so, I can see where 3rd person over-the-shoulder still being a viable camera option for the game you describe. And it allows for including the eye candy from moves without figuring out how to deal with the camera issues pointed out by Timothy.
11/10/2008 (12:19 pm)
Keep in mind that part of the attraction to a fighting game is the eye candy provided by the moves. So you'd have to replace that missing element with something else. When you reference 3rd person fighting games, are you talking specifically along the lines of the side-view in most games like tekken/mortal kombat? If so, I can see where 3rd person over-the-shoulder still being a viable camera option for the game you describe. And it allows for including the eye candy from moves without figuring out how to deal with the camera issues pointed out by Timothy.
#3
You'll need something to attract people's attention.
11/10/2008 (1:11 pm)
There have been a few 1st person fight games over the years. They've had a limited fan base and the ones that did semi-well had an alternative 3rd person mode just so you could see what was happening. Most people find the lack of character view and difficulty in aiming a punch or move to be a turn off. Half the fun is button mashing and the other half is seeing some ultra cool unbelievable move on the screen.You'll need something to attract people's attention.
#4
Or, and this was another idea I half-thought of, add some slo-mo. I figured just slowing it down on critical hits would be enough, but what about slowing down and going to third-person or something? Some cinematic view of the hit.
Another problem might be the mechanic of forcing your opponent back - it's not that satisfying if you roundhouse them in the head and they just step back. Maybe that idea of winning by a force back could supplement health bars, instead of replacing it. So, if you've got no buttons held down, and you move the mouse forward or back, you move along the movement track. In that way you can dodge eney attacks to an extent - but if you lose ground, you're closer to being forced onto a wall or whatever.
I actually had it in mind to make this game once I'm well done with my current project - I guess it's sort of heartening to know that not many people will like it: less chance that someone else will steal the idea ;D
11/11/2008 (12:42 am)
Hmm, I see what you guys are saying. That's a good point that yo won't get to see most of your awesome moves. I was counting on the fact that you're actually in the 'hot seat' (as it were) throwing the punches would make it a little more awesome. Maybe in place of seeing awesome moves, the game could substitute awesome damage effects :POr, and this was another idea I half-thought of, add some slo-mo. I figured just slowing it down on critical hits would be enough, but what about slowing down and going to third-person or something? Some cinematic view of the hit.
Another problem might be the mechanic of forcing your opponent back - it's not that satisfying if you roundhouse them in the head and they just step back. Maybe that idea of winning by a force back could supplement health bars, instead of replacing it. So, if you've got no buttons held down, and you move the mouse forward or back, you move along the movement track. In that way you can dodge eney attacks to an extent - but if you lose ground, you're closer to being forced onto a wall or whatever.
I actually had it in mind to make this game once I'm well done with my current project - I guess it's sort of heartening to know that not many people will like it: less chance that someone else will steal the idea ;D
#5
11/28/2008 (5:51 pm)
To bring this post form the dead, I think that you just need to do the graphics in a tasteful way, like NOT having cartoon characters, and if you combined that with some rag-doll physics and particle effects pummeling your enemy into submission just got a whole lot more interesting.
#6
11/29/2008 (12:06 am)
Hmm... I figured on leveraging the DBZ style by going for a completely cartoon style - cel-shaded, the works. But you're right that it could be a lot more engaging with a more (dare I say) visceral art direction. I think that's a different take on the idea which could also be a lot of fun.
#7
It isn't truly first-person, as the camera is behind you. But the camera is fixed, and always points the direction you are looking.
I was a HUGE fan of One Must Fall: 2097, so naturally, I bought Battlegrounds. But this style of control was so difficult (for me at least) that I only played it once. Adding the third dimension of control forces you to spend a lot of time trying to line-up attacks on constantly moving enemies. Sure, such things are probably more realistic, but they are not fun.
Here's an example of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x4uckVGElg
My thoughts on this would be that maybe it would work better if you remove the third dimension of control...don't let the player move left or right (like with Tekken-style 3D fighters). If the movement options are constrained, then a first-person, or over-the-shoulder viewpoint may be totally enjoyable. For me what broke Battlegrounds was having too much to control to worry about, and so much area to move around in, that I couldn't concentrate on my fighting moves...which are the whole point of such a game.
08/11/2010 (7:16 pm)
Hopefully I'm not violating any rules by resurrecting an old thread. But on the subject of first-person fighter games, no one had mentioned One Must Fall: Battlegrounds. And, it nicely brings up some of the issues with this style of game.It isn't truly first-person, as the camera is behind you. But the camera is fixed, and always points the direction you are looking.
I was a HUGE fan of One Must Fall: 2097, so naturally, I bought Battlegrounds. But this style of control was so difficult (for me at least) that I only played it once. Adding the third dimension of control forces you to spend a lot of time trying to line-up attacks on constantly moving enemies. Sure, such things are probably more realistic, but they are not fun.
Here's an example of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x4uckVGElg
My thoughts on this would be that maybe it would work better if you remove the third dimension of control...don't let the player move left or right (like with Tekken-style 3D fighters). If the movement options are constrained, then a first-person, or over-the-shoulder viewpoint may be totally enjoyable. For me what broke Battlegrounds was having too much to control to worry about, and so much area to move around in, that I couldn't concentrate on my fighting moves...which are the whole point of such a game.
#8
01/12/2013 (9:32 am)
Been done now, check out Zeno Clash 
#9
01/23/2013 (5:36 pm)
Oni by Bungee incorporated pretty good hand-to-hand combat. I think it worked out pretty well.
#10
01/26/2013 (3:33 am)
Just bought Zeno Clash in the Steam sales! Yet to check it out, but it looks awesomely kooky. 
#11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkV25T2r0Uw
there is also the "mount and blade" serie.
02/12/2013 (5:29 am)
I would drop here as a reference the chronicles of riddick: escape from butcher bay, which i believe, made the best melee combat rendition that can be achieved in an FPS game:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkV25T2r0Uw
there is also the "mount and blade" serie.
#12
02/12/2013 (12:59 pm)
I know this is not 'first person', but the Path of Neo is one of my all time favorite epic fighter games. 
#13
I would first like to say this is a very interesting idea.
I would start out by getting video of a couple of people sparing with each other in different fighting styles. But it should be recorded with cameras in goggles or glasses to get the first person perspective. Now as far as targeting, that is pretty simple. Just build the game like a normal fighter with high mid and low kick and punches. Set up all the collisions the same as a normal Fighter game. Now from there decide if you want to make it a MK/SF side style fighter or a more 3D type and build your maps to reflect the style. Now of course there are many other details to take care of but these are the basic techniques that I would use if I was to create a Fighter game in the FPS genre style.
02/15/2013 (1:19 pm)
Hello,I would first like to say this is a very interesting idea.
I would start out by getting video of a couple of people sparing with each other in different fighting styles. But it should be recorded with cameras in goggles or glasses to get the first person perspective. Now as far as targeting, that is pretty simple. Just build the game like a normal fighter with high mid and low kick and punches. Set up all the collisions the same as a normal Fighter game. Now from there decide if you want to make it a MK/SF side style fighter or a more 3D type and build your maps to reflect the style. Now of course there are many other details to take care of but these are the basic techniques that I would use if I was to create a Fighter game in the FPS genre style.
Torque Owner Timothy Castagna
TK Games LLC