Some questions and concerns regarding TGEA?
by Shane09 · in General Discussion · 09/28/2008 (4:04 pm) · 39 replies
Hello, recently seeing some demos of TGEA in actual gameplay, just "Wowed" me. Well, actually, it "Wowed" me in multiple ways. I saw a special effects demonstration, and was like"Woah!". Actually more like, "WoW". The spell casting effects were almost exactly like WoW (World of Warcraft). I saw the range, spell damage, description, spell casting time. One word, AMAZING. I have never took the time before to look at TGEA until now. I had no idea on what I was missing out on. Also, the terrain and water textures are way, way cooler looking then the Torque Game Engine I own (1.4.2). The textures looked like someone took a picture and said it was from Torque. Considering the possibilites of TGEA, I have some questions that should hopefully help me choose which engine to buy.
1) I assume Torque Game Engine 1.4 is super out of date, and they don't make any upgrades for it anymore.
2) Can TGE 1.5 or TGEA have multiplayer gaming on them? Well actually, I know they can. Duh. So what I really mean to ask is, how much players per server could be able to play? Because if one were to create a MMORPG, I think 13 players would be boring. It would need to be more like 13000 :)
3) Is TGEA worth buying? I can get the upgrade for a little bit cheaper, because I already own TGE 1.4.2.
4) What do you prefer, TGE 1.5 or TGEA?
5) Does TGE 1.5 have the ability to create water like this image? Or was this done in TGEA?
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1656
6) Can TGE 1.5 have the ability to do what I mention in my first paragraph? (spell damage, range, description, spell casting time, etc...)
7) Is TGE 1.4.2 even really worth developing on?
Thank you for taking your time to read this. Thank you x 2 for taking your time to answer my questions (if you do)?
EDIT:
8) I am assuming TGEA can create pretty good graphics, quality graphic GUIs, and great animations without lag?
EDIT:
NOTE: Some of these questions may be referring to Torque Game Engine 1.5+ also.
9) Because I like to put much time into my art/GUIs, I was wondering if instead of using the same boring GUIs that every Torque game (well it seems to be every, such as Minions of Mirth and RealmWars) uses, I wanted every GUI to be created by me and I was wondering if I could do that? I mean instead of using the healthbars, if I could make my own in different shapes and colors, along with all the other buttons, like "Login" buttons and lots of in game buttons that most games seem to be using boring ones. Is it possible to do that so I don't have to use precreated ones that Torque supplies you with? I want my game to be unique and almost impossible to tell that it was made using Torque except for that fact that I will display the logo in the beginning, and end credits.
10) Only Indies have to display the GarageGames logo right? And if this is the case, do I only have to display the logo once? And then every time the user opens up the application they will have to click "Beginning Cinema" to be able to see the GarageGames logo again and what my game is about?
11) How do you change the speed of which the character runs? I have seen lots of games where when the player runs, it look like every step he takes does not match up with the speed. It looks like with 2 steps he already traveled 6 yards. No joke. How do I change this?
1) I assume Torque Game Engine 1.4 is super out of date, and they don't make any upgrades for it anymore.
2) Can TGE 1.5 or TGEA have multiplayer gaming on them? Well actually, I know they can. Duh. So what I really mean to ask is, how much players per server could be able to play? Because if one were to create a MMORPG, I think 13 players would be boring. It would need to be more like 13000 :)
3) Is TGEA worth buying? I can get the upgrade for a little bit cheaper, because I already own TGE 1.4.2.
4) What do you prefer, TGE 1.5 or TGEA?
5) Does TGE 1.5 have the ability to create water like this image? Or was this done in TGEA?
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1656
6) Can TGE 1.5 have the ability to do what I mention in my first paragraph? (spell damage, range, description, spell casting time, etc...)
7) Is TGE 1.4.2 even really worth developing on?
Thank you for taking your time to read this. Thank you x 2 for taking your time to answer my questions (if you do)?
EDIT:
8) I am assuming TGEA can create pretty good graphics, quality graphic GUIs, and great animations without lag?
EDIT:
NOTE: Some of these questions may be referring to Torque Game Engine 1.5+ also.
9) Because I like to put much time into my art/GUIs, I was wondering if instead of using the same boring GUIs that every Torque game (well it seems to be every, such as Minions of Mirth and RealmWars) uses, I wanted every GUI to be created by me and I was wondering if I could do that? I mean instead of using the healthbars, if I could make my own in different shapes and colors, along with all the other buttons, like "Login" buttons and lots of in game buttons that most games seem to be using boring ones. Is it possible to do that so I don't have to use precreated ones that Torque supplies you with? I want my game to be unique and almost impossible to tell that it was made using Torque except for that fact that I will display the logo in the beginning, and end credits.
10) Only Indies have to display the GarageGames logo right? And if this is the case, do I only have to display the logo once? And then every time the user opens up the application they will have to click "Beginning Cinema" to be able to see the GarageGames logo again and what my game is about?
11) How do you change the speed of which the character runs? I have seen lots of games where when the player runs, it look like every step he takes does not match up with the speed. It looks like with 2 steps he already traveled 6 yards. No joke. How do I change this?
#2
But is it possible for a MMORPG?
Also, there isn't a TGEA for Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? Someone please tell me there is?
09/28/2008 (4:32 pm)
@ MorrockBut is it possible for a MMORPG?
Also, there isn't a TGEA for Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? Someone please tell me there is?
#3
TGEA runs off DirectX which macs don't support, so I don't think there will be a TGEA mac for a while. I did read something about upcoming compatibility with OpenGL... Rumor?
09/28/2008 (4:56 pm)
There have been MMO's made with TGE. Just look up Minion's of Mirth. So yes it is possible, but it's not something you want to try until you are VERY good at programming and development.TGEA runs off DirectX which macs don't support, so I don't think there will be a TGEA mac for a while. I did read something about upcoming compatibility with OpenGL... Rumor?
#5
2) There is an MMO kit, which can let over 20,000 players per server.
3) I don't know, for I don't have it. The only difference is better shading, and bigger terrains.
4) TGEA
5) TGEA did that water effect, but you can do it in TGE with the modernization kit.
6) Anything TGE can do. And AFX was originally made for TGEA, so yes it can.
7) It can be worth developing on if you can use it effectively.
8) Yes, just look at pixel shader 3.0, it is great.
You can make an MMO is you know the TNL, or you can use the MMO kit.
TGEA 1.8 will have OpenGL support, so Mac will be able to use it. If you do not want to wait, use MacDX to use DirectX on a Mac.
I expected that you would have checked to see if it had Mac support, since each product says what OS they run on.
09/28/2008 (6:39 pm)
1) TGE 1.4 is now out of date, TGE 1.5 is the newer version.2) There is an MMO kit, which can let over 20,000 players per server.
3) I don't know, for I don't have it. The only difference is better shading, and bigger terrains.
4) TGEA
5) TGEA did that water effect, but you can do it in TGE with the modernization kit.
6) Anything TGE can do. And AFX was originally made for TGEA, so yes it can.
7) It can be worth developing on if you can use it effectively.
8) Yes, just look at pixel shader 3.0, it is great.
Quote:
But is it possible for a MMORPG?
Also, there isn't a TGEA for Mac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? Someone please tell me there is?
You can make an MMO is you know the TNL, or you can use the MMO kit.
TGEA 1.8 will have OpenGL support, so Mac will be able to use it. If you do not want to wait, use MacDX to use DirectX on a Mac.
I expected that you would have checked to see if it had Mac support, since each product says what OS they run on.
#6
Btw, where did you read AFX was originally made for TGEA? AFX was released for TGE first, then ported to TGEA.
The rest of the answers (from everyone) look pretty good to me.
09/28/2008 (6:51 pm)
@Tyler - The differences between TGE and TGEA now go beyond shader support and large terrain. A while back, the common phrase was "TGEA = TGE+Shaders+Atlas". That's not the case anymore. Btw, where did you read AFX was originally made for TGEA? AFX was released for TGE first, then ported to TGEA.
The rest of the answers (from everyone) look pretty good to me.
#7
Really? I guess I haven't been paying attention to the TGEA update log... I should look into that.
I was told by someone on the forums that AFX was originally made for TGEA, they must have been wrong.
09/28/2008 (7:46 pm)
Quote:That's not the case anymore.
Really? I guess I haven't been paying attention to the TGEA update log... I should look into that.
I was told by someone on the forums that AFX was originally made for TGEA, they must have been wrong.
#8
Here's my thoughts on the questions; hopefully they'll help.
09/29/2008 (6:39 am)
Thanks, Michael for clarifying some of the points!Here's my thoughts on the questions; hopefully they'll help.
Quote:1) I assume Torque Game Engine 1.4 is super out of date, and they don't make any upgrades for it anymore.The current version of TGE is 1.5.2, which was a paid upgrade that integrated the lighting kit functionality, some rather significant code refactoring, and asset content. We do not currently sell the 1.4 version of the engine.
Quote:2) Can TGE 1.5 or TGEA have multiplayer gaming on them? Well actually, I know they can. Duh. So what I really mean to ask is, how much players per server could be able to play? Because if one were to create a MMORPG, I think 13 players would be boring. It would need to be more like 13000 :)They are designed for fast-action multiplayer gaming. There is no server cap, however. You can add one in depending on your infrastructure and technical requirements and the type of game. The networking structure behind a MMO is quite different than that in a FPS, however, and would require some technical networking knowledge. TNL is not a MMO solution. It is the networking layer, abstracted from the engine so that other engines/applications can make use of it. There are some significant changes that have been made to TNL in terms of security and optimizations as well.
Quote:3) Is TGEA worth buying? I can get the upgrade for a little bit cheaper, because I already own TGE 1.4.2IMO it is definitely worth buying. It's an excellent engine. Whether or not it is right for your game and target market, though, is something that none of us can really help you decide.
Quote:4) What do you prefer, TGE 1.5 or TGEA?It really depends on the type of game and hardware support you need. I much prefer the cleanliness and organziation of TGEA 1.7, but when it comes to supporting a wide-range of hardware, TGE is still the engine of choice.
Quote:5) Does TGE 1.5 have the ability to create water like this image? Or was this done in TGEA?That screenshot was done with TGEA. I believe the team had originally integrated the Modernization Kit into TGE to get very nice looking water before making the port to TGEA.
http://www.garagegames.com/mg/snapshot/view.php?qid=1656
Quote:6) Can TGE 1.5 have the ability to do what I mention in my first paragraph? (spell damage, range, description, spell casting time, etc...)You will have to program it in, or purchase AFX and program/tweak to the desired functionality. It will take some programming elbow grease whether it is in C++ or script.
Quote:7) Is TGE 1.4.2 even really worth developing on?It's still a solid engine, but I would still recommend teams work with 1.5 or TGEA depending on their needs. The integration of the lighting kit alone makes it more pleasant to work with.
Quote:8) I am assuming TGEA can create pretty good graphics, quality graphic GUIs, and great animations without lag?It depends on your artists. A good artist can make a low-poly model with a normal map that runs beautifully in most engines. A bad artist can make a similar model that will bog down a six story renderfarm.
#9
09/30/2008 (3:41 pm)
I edited the main post. Because it didn't "bump" it, I made this mini post to "bump" it. I did not do this to annoy people or whatever, as I did it to get my thread/post re-noticed.
#10
Both Indie and Commercial users must display the GarageGames splash screen, unless they are operating under a previous license that that states otherwise. The terms are listed in the EULA.
There are lots of resources that show how to modify the character's speed, but this kind of question is specific to your project and would require more information...also better suited for its own thread.
09/30/2008 (3:46 pm)
@Shane - Check out Guimo's most recent Warscale Blog. He shows off some pretty slick GUIs and art.Both Indie and Commercial users must display the GarageGames splash screen, unless they are operating under a previous license that that states otherwise. The terms are listed in the EULA.
There are lots of resources that show how to modify the character's speed, but this kind of question is specific to your project and would require more information...also better suited for its own thread.
#11
09/30/2008 (3:54 pm)
Is it possible I could please get any more elaboration on question 10? Thanks.
#13
10/03/2008 (11:31 am)
Quote:9) Because I like to put much time into my art/GUIs, I was wondering if instead of using the same boring GUIs that every Torque game (well it seems to be every, such as Minions of Mirth and RealmWars) uses, I wanted every GUI to be created by me and I was wondering if I could do that? I mean instead of using the healthbars, if I could make my own in different shapes and colors, along with all the other buttons, like "Login" buttons and lots of in game buttons that most games seem to be using boring ones. Is it possible to do that so I don't have to use precreated ones that Torque supplies you with? I want my game to be unique and almost impossible to tell that it was made using Torque except for that fact that I will display the logo in the beginning, and end credits.You can either extend the GUI system or rewrite it if you really want it to be completely different. Many use the standard GUI and reskin it as necessary for their games, but it can be as complex or simple as you like. But depending on the functionality and transitions, etc, you might be doing some hefty GUI coding.
Quote:10) Only Indies have to display the GarageGames logo right? And if this is the case, do I only have to display the logo once? And then every time the user opens up the application they will have to click "Beginning Cinema" to be able to see the GarageGames logo again and what my game is about?You have to include it upon startup regardless of the license (both indie and commercial).
#14
10/03/2008 (2:11 pm)
Hmm, yeh I don't really seem to like Torque anymore. I don't like the EULA. Maybe I should use another engine? 
#15
Maybe so. But what don't you like? You get to release games royalty free.
10/03/2008 (2:18 pm)
@Shane:Maybe so. But what don't you like? You get to release games royalty free.
#16
10/03/2008 (2:39 pm)
That are other engines that do not require a logo, though the majority of them do. You could definitely look at the open source community.
#17
Well, I don't like putting the "GarageGames" logo on all my games. No offense to you guys, it just would make my game look sorta, unprofessional.
@David
I am going to look torwards the open source community. Maybe some other programming languages, too. C++ has WAY too many errors, so I will probably go for DYLAN ( Dynamic Language programming ) or Csharp.
10/03/2008 (3:09 pm)
@JaimiWell, I don't like putting the "GarageGames" logo on all my games. No offense to you guys, it just would make my game look sorta, unprofessional.
@David
I am going to look torwards the open source community. Maybe some other programming languages, too. C++ has WAY too many errors, so I will probably go for DYLAN ( Dynamic Language programming ) or Csharp.
#18
Before you jump ship, you may at least want take a look at the new logos - I personally think they look quite professional and attractive:
www.garagegames.com/company/logo/GarageGames_Splash_Screens.zip
10/03/2008 (3:39 pm)
Well, of course you can choose any engine you like, but I'm not sure if I agree that showing a logo makes you look unprofessional, seeing as most games that I play show a ton of logos of different companies at startup. Before you jump ship, you may at least want take a look at the new logos - I personally think they look quite professional and attractive:
www.garagegames.com/company/logo/GarageGames_Splash_Screens.zip
#20
10/03/2008 (4:16 pm)
Good luck. That's going to extend your time frame by a few years. 
Torque 3D Owner Morrock
2) You'll need to make some extensive changes to Torque's Networking to get an MMO running. Current server limits are 32 or 64 (I can't remember which) There are some MMO Kits for sale, but I can't recommend any as I've never used them.
3) If you won't be too confused by everything new needed for the graphics and can get a few good artists, TGEA is definitely worth it.
4) For making a game I prefer TGEA, but I do most of my toying around in TGE 1.5.2 because my computer is too slow to test anything made with TGEA.
5) Those screenshots are from TGEA. But if you integrate the Modernization Kit (MK) you can get water effects like this just do a quick forum search for the Modernization Kit.
6) Not out of the box. Or well it can with good scripting, but I'm still a guy who prefers C++ for that sort of thing. There is a resource by Gareth Fouche which adds a simple spell system. It's more Oblivion-style however, not like WoW where you target someone and cast.
7) Of course it is, it's not like it is a piece of trash; it is only an older version.