Editing the Engine

#1 I'd answer your question, but perhaps you should just read the license.

http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=v12&page=license

#2 I am pretty certain that you only need to buy a license for the programmers that actually touch the engine code. So anyone can use the exe? Again, this is just what I believe, it could be wrong :)

#3 David I was hoping for a more mature answer, I have read the EULA but I wanted to make sure I had it right, I'm not a rich person and I really don't have the money to be doing illegal things.

So yeah if somebody can give me a direct answer, this is actually for myself but a group project so we want to do it right and not end up in red tape.

Thanks for any help you give me (Thats actually useful)

Laterz
LA

#4 As far as I understand it, you have to buy a license for every programmer that works with the actual engine code (i.e. changes it or makes additions to it). You don't have to buy a license to work with the script/converters (like map2dif, ...)/mission- and gui-editor. I also think, that you can modify the engine as much as you want. You don't have to contribute the changes, if you don't want to, since these are your property. The Torque-engine however will still be the "property" of Garagegames, so you are not allowed to redestribute the enigne code to people who haven't bought a Torque license.

I hope that this helps a little (and that it's correct).

Stefan Rampp.

#5 Thanks Stefan

Laterz
LA

#6 Jarvinen,

You want a more mature answer? Take responsibility for yourself and take the time and effort to understand the licensing agreement that you are considering signing. We are not lawyers, don't rely on our interpretation!

If you decide to read the EULA, sections 1, 2, 3, and 6 spell out the answers you want in almost plain english. It spells out what you have been granted the rights to do, and what restrictions you have agreed to. If after reading the EULA you do not clearly understand it, I suggest that you don't agree to it. Consult an actual lawyer.

As a matter of general social etiquette, you probably shouldn't insult someone while asking for help. And next time, make at least a token effort to find the answer before asking. In this case you could search for, oh I don't know, 'license'? I've seen it asked and answered quite a few times on the forums here.

Now perhaps you should read my previous post and decide for yourself whether you think I was being insulting. You did not mention that you'd read the EULA, and I personally think it's fairly clear.

#7 The answer is one license per programmer at $100 per license. Think of it like you would a C++ compiler.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#8 violence is the virtue of the vicious :)

guys ..guys ..guys... we are all packets in the great internet of life...
as such our TTLs are too small to engage in such flaming..

I believe Jeff answered the question quite succintly...so David and Benjamin shake hands now... :)

long live garage games....viva la resistance.

#9 "The answer is one license per programmer at $100 per license. Think of it like you would a C++ compiler."

Most companies buy one copy/license of a C++ compiler(example: VC++) and have all their developers use it(install the same copy on all their workstations, just like with Windows). So you might not want to use that as an example. ;)

#10 Nathan: Most companies? Not many companies I know of any more that would risk the $25,000 per copy fines if the BSA did an audit. Not only that, but, most companies I know have a bit more integrity than that - plus if you are a development company using VC++, it's not that expensive. $1k a pop us chump change compaired to some of the professional development packages we make use of at my 'day job' - our yearly support fees alone are 4 times that for one package.

The part that sort of irks me about debates like this - Torque isn't Free as in Beer, or Free as in Speach (however, I LIKE the way it's licensed.) Don't like it? Don't complain about it. Use one that has a licensing model that you like. Don't find one with the features you like and licensing model you like? Roll your own. There is nothing that stops you from doin' it. But don't complain about someone else's business decisions in a market segment that has as many possible solutions as the Game Engines area does.

#11 Nathan,

I have never seen an approach to licensing a compiler like you are suggesting. I have seen companies like Dynamix buy a site license for $25,000 then install on a certain number of machines. Usually, it is on a per machine basis. For instance, at GG we just bought two copies of Code Warrior for the two Macs we have. We did not just buy one, then install it on both machines.

Jeff Tunnell GG

#12 i agree.... the other day i saw a crack posted on some site for Milkshape 3D ... i mean why would you want to crack such a great tool....to avoid what... pay $20...????

The finances of the world work on value addition... you add value..what's wrong in getting paid for it...


i guess people who do as Nathan suggests...do not contribute to NPR also do they???

#13 Some start-ups do what Nathan suggested because they are short on cash. Educational institutions do it as well. It cost a couple of school districts in Washington State a good chunk of change when Microsoft had them audited.

Though it may escape initial costs, it can lead to much more significant costs. I find it kind of humorous that a group of developers (though none here) would consider this okay, and yet ***** about someone pirating their game. Sure, the game isn't as expensive...but it's the same principle of time invested and hopeful returns that make developement houses that would install software as described hypocritical.

I wonder if those sam houses have a NDA about all illegal software installed...

#14 Let this topic die