Official TGB Documentation Feedback
by Stephen Zepp · in Torque Game Builder · 05/14/2008 (5:06 pm) · 110 replies
Please feel free to use this thread to talk about documentation feedback, suggestions, or contributions.
#82
Regarding Torque 2D - Because it is not a current product being sold, we do not have it in a permanent spot, like the product pages. With Torque 2D, we are following the Torque 3D model. We are posting developer blogs continually as the engine grows and changes. This has worked well for current members, and you can easily follow the progression in the stickied forum thread Torque 2D Development Series which is at the top of the TGB forums. Now I'm working on more marketing materials for it, but it is not difficult to find Torque 2D information.
Regarding the checkers demo - This is an example Matt Langley wrote years ago. It still works, but it was not intended to be a full checkers game. The purpose of it was to show how to start a new project, add assets, edit a level, script some game play, and provide a simple networking example.
Whatever issues you have with the tutorial, I'm afraid I can't help right now. I have been fully dedicated to Torque 3D's documentation, and will be moving my focus to Torque 2D soon. I am working on getting 1 or 2 more people to help with documentation, but for the time being the only doc writer has to focus on the new flagship engines: Torque 2D and Torque 3D.
Now, if you list the issues you have and the fixes, I can integrate those into the TGB documentation. However, the future is Torque 2D and it should get the most amount of attention from the lead writer.
11/29/2009 (9:50 pm)
@Brian - Thanks for the feedback. Regarding Torque 2D - Because it is not a current product being sold, we do not have it in a permanent spot, like the product pages. With Torque 2D, we are following the Torque 3D model. We are posting developer blogs continually as the engine grows and changes. This has worked well for current members, and you can easily follow the progression in the stickied forum thread Torque 2D Development Series which is at the top of the TGB forums. Now I'm working on more marketing materials for it, but it is not difficult to find Torque 2D information.
Regarding the checkers demo - This is an example Matt Langley wrote years ago. It still works, but it was not intended to be a full checkers game. The purpose of it was to show how to start a new project, add assets, edit a level, script some game play, and provide a simple networking example.
Whatever issues you have with the tutorial, I'm afraid I can't help right now. I have been fully dedicated to Torque 3D's documentation, and will be moving my focus to Torque 2D soon. I am working on getting 1 or 2 more people to help with documentation, but for the time being the only doc writer has to focus on the new flagship engines: Torque 2D and Torque 3D.
Now, if you list the issues you have and the fixes, I can integrate those into the TGB documentation. However, the future is Torque 2D and it should get the most amount of attention from the lead writer.
#83
I definitely would like to update the TDN tutorials (especially the ones I wrote, willing to do others too) from TGB to T2D when the time comes. If you need any help with other aspects of the T2D docs, I'd be glad to offer my assistance.
One idea I've had for the future update is to have more links to feature tutorials or reference documents within game-based tutorials. This way beginners can easily find more information about a specific feature that might only be partly explained as it is applied in that tutorial and more advanced users don't have to get bogged down in text and explanations for things they might already know about.
12/02/2009 (1:32 pm)
Michael,I definitely would like to update the TDN tutorials (especially the ones I wrote, willing to do others too) from TGB to T2D when the time comes. If you need any help with other aspects of the T2D docs, I'd be glad to offer my assistance.
One idea I've had for the future update is to have more links to feature tutorials or reference documents within game-based tutorials. This way beginners can easily find more information about a specific feature that might only be partly explained as it is applied in that tutorial and more advanced users don't have to get bogged down in text and explanations for things they might already know about.
#84
The time that I have spent trying to figure out why a tutorial isn't working for me is defeating the purpose of even trying to study them. I have redone several tutorials 2 or 3 times to try and figure out where I went wrong, only to find in a search on google that the tutorial is outdated.
I am a technical writer by trade and as a true "noobie" with absolutely no experience in game building, this documentation is not noobie friendly. The terminology between the current version of TGB and the tutorials is confusing ie: Level vs Scene. TGB should hire a technical writer with no experience with any of this and have them walk through each tutorial and update them.
For example the code in the Fish Demo part 7 is wrong. It has this:
case "left":
%this.setLinearVelocityX(%this.speed); **SHOULD BE 20**
%this.setFlipX(false);
%this.setPositionY(getRandom(-35, 25));
case "right":
%this.setLinearVelocityX(-%this.speed); **SHOULD BE -20**
%this.setFlipX(true);
%this.setPositionY(getRandom(-35, 25));
The checkers demo is definitely not working. Section 2.1 is in desperate need of review. This post gives some ideas and code for fixing but as a noobie it's worthless. http://www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/71746
Some other posts give you the impression you don't need 2 computers to test the networking.
I'm pretty close to regretting my decision to actually buy TGB.
03/23/2010 (5:45 pm)
I have just recently purchased the TGB and I am beyond frustrated with the documentation. The time that I have spent trying to figure out why a tutorial isn't working for me is defeating the purpose of even trying to study them. I have redone several tutorials 2 or 3 times to try and figure out where I went wrong, only to find in a search on google that the tutorial is outdated.
I am a technical writer by trade and as a true "noobie" with absolutely no experience in game building, this documentation is not noobie friendly. The terminology between the current version of TGB and the tutorials is confusing ie: Level vs Scene. TGB should hire a technical writer with no experience with any of this and have them walk through each tutorial and update them.
For example the code in the Fish Demo part 7 is wrong. It has this:
case "left":
%this.setLinearVelocityX(%this.speed); **SHOULD BE 20**
%this.setFlipX(false);
%this.setPositionY(getRandom(-35, 25));
case "right":
%this.setLinearVelocityX(-%this.speed); **SHOULD BE -20**
%this.setFlipX(true);
%this.setPositionY(getRandom(-35, 25));
The checkers demo is definitely not working. Section 2.1 is in desperate need of review. This post gives some ideas and code for fixing but as a noobie it's worthless. http://www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/71746
Some other posts give you the impression you don't need 2 computers to test the networking.
I'm pretty close to regretting my decision to actually buy TGB.
#85
As you are technical writer, I'd certainly be interested in your opinion on a set of video tutorials I've recently made for TGB. Obviously there is no writing to critique but some feedback on the "noob" friendliness of the concepts I talk about and show would be great. And hopefully it can help you a bit in learning TGB.
t2dtutorials.com/videos
03/24/2010 (11:16 am)
Cydney,As you are technical writer, I'd certainly be interested in your opinion on a set of video tutorials I've recently made for TGB. Obviously there is no writing to critique but some feedback on the "noob" friendliness of the concepts I talk about and show would be great. And hopefully it can help you a bit in learning TGB.
t2dtutorials.com/videos
#86
Sure I would be happy to take a look! Maybe I can get some of this stuff figured out. Thanks for your reply
03/24/2010 (11:21 am)
@Mike Sure I would be happy to take a look! Maybe I can get some of this stuff figured out. Thanks for your reply
#87
These are amazing. I have been watching for 5 minutes and am now planning my day around this!
Do you have any more?
@Stephen Zepp/Michael Perry - USE THESE please!!! They are perfect for all learning styles as well as step by step for new users. Obviously I wouldn't be able to tell you if something was missing but after just 5 minutes I already have a clearer understanding.
03/24/2010 (11:34 am)
@MikeThese are amazing. I have been watching for 5 minutes and am now planning my day around this!
Do you have any more?
@Stephen Zepp/Michael Perry - USE THESE please!!! They are perfect for all learning styles as well as step by step for new users. Obviously I wouldn't be able to tell you if something was missing but after just 5 minutes I already have a clearer understanding.
#88
@Cydney - I appreciate the feedback, and sorry you have hit walls so early on.
We are doing just that. We will be posting a job offer very soon to hire on another technical writer to help me out. Previous Torque experience will be a plus, but not a requirement.
I have not worked on the Fish Demo in a while, but how did you come to the conclusion that the values of 20 and -20 should be used instead of %this.speed? That value is set in:
03/24/2010 (11:48 am)
@Mike - Excellent videos indeed!@Cydney - I appreciate the feedback, and sorry you have hit walls so early on.
Quote:TGB should hire a technical writer with no experience with any of this and have them walk through each tutorial and update them.
We are doing just that. We will be posting a job offer very soon to hire on another technical writer to help me out. Previous Torque experience will be a plus, but not a requirement.
Quote:For example the code in the Fish Demo part 7 is wrong. It has this:
case "left":
%this.setLinearVelocityX(%this.speed); **SHOULD BE 20**
%this.setFlipX(false);
%this.setPositionY(getRandom(-35, 25));
case "right":
%this.setLinearVelocityX(-%this.speed); **SHOULD BE -20**
%this.setFlipX(true);
%this.setPositionY(getRandom(-35, 25));
I have not worked on the Fish Demo in a while, but how did you come to the conclusion that the values of 20 and -20 should be used instead of %this.speed? That value is set in:
function FishClass::setSpeed(%this)
{
%this.speed = getRandom(%this.minSpeed, %this.maxSpeed);
}
#89
So I went back through the steps from 5.1 on and saw that the Velocity X and Y's should be 20 and -20. I fixed them and then they swam again.
When getting your technical writer, I would recommend them having zero experience with Torque so that you can truely get the good documents you need for beginners. You can always skip over stuff but if stuff is missing then a beginner is stuck.
I freelance so if you want some help let me know :)
03/24/2010 (1:41 pm)
In 5.2 it adds in the code as X Y 20 and -20 and then in 7.2.1 it gives you a big block of code so I copied and pasted and then the fish quit swimming. So I went back through the steps from 5.1 on and saw that the Velocity X and Y's should be 20 and -20. I fixed them and then they swam again.
When getting your technical writer, I would recommend them having zero experience with Torque so that you can truely get the good documents you need for beginners. You can always skip over stuff but if stuff is missing then a beginner is stuck.
I freelance so if you want some help let me know :)
#90
It's a way to allow a level designer to play around with gameplay elements in the level builder without having to dig through script that maybe someone else wrote.
Glad you like the videos, by the way. There are more planned, but this is something I am doing in my free time, so I can only hope to release one or two a month at most.
03/24/2010 (2:05 pm)
What the fish demo is trying to teach in the 7.1 section is instead of defining the speed directly in script, you can leave it as an undefined dynamic field instead and define the speed in the level builder. So you add the minSpeed and maxSpeed dynamic fields directly on the fish in the level builder, give those speeds a value, and the script pulls those values from the object.It's a way to allow a level designer to play around with gameplay elements in the level builder without having to dig through script that maybe someone else wrote.
Glad you like the videos, by the way. There are more planned, but this is something I am doing in my free time, so I can only hope to release one or two a month at most.
#91
03/24/2010 (2:08 pm)
@Cydney - What Mike said about the dynamic fields is spot on. The code should work, but the transition may not be clear enough.Quote:I freelance so if you want some help let me know :)By chance, are you located near Las Vegas?
#92
@ both Mike's - a classic example of how a noobie gets confused! :) Thanks for the clarification
03/24/2010 (4:03 pm)
@ MP Why yes I am :) email me at cydney.lair@gmail.com if you like.@ both Mike's - a classic example of how a noobie gets confused! :) Thanks for the clarification
#93
03/29/2010 (7:17 am)
@Cydney - I have e-mailed you. You might also be interested in reading about the position we are hiring for.
#94
03/29/2010 (11:59 am)
I am looking for help with my Torque Game Builder. I just don't understand how it works and i tried using the tutorials and they didn't make any sense either. My teacher suggested that i come here to look for help that he can not give me since it is a on-line course. Please i am just looking for a little help. 
#95
Break it down into a simple concept and build on that.
03/29/2010 (12:30 pm)
@Paul, In the forum you posted this in, create a new post that describes the problem you're having. Provide code if you're at that point.Break it down into a simple concept and build on that.
#96
I get 404 on the buttons TGB Online Docs and Other Engine Documentation.
04/08/2010 (12:34 pm)
I just found two dead links in the online docs.I get 404 on the buttons TGB Online Docs and Other Engine Documentation.
#97
Description information for Methods have been removed from Reference -> TGB Reference ->
===
ActionMap
Audio (Most of, but not all)
BehaviorComponent
BehaviorInstance
DynamicConsoleMethodComponent
FieldManipulators
FileDialog
FileObject -> openFor*, writeObject
FileSystem (Most of, but not all)
GameConnection
Global (About half of)
GuiBitmapButtonCtrl
GuiCanvas (About half of)
GuiCheckBoxCtrl
GuiControl (About 12, but some are somewhat self-explanatory)
GuiDirectoryFileListCtrl -> setFilter
GuiDragAndDropControl -> startDragging
GuiFrameSetCtrl
GuiIconButtonCtrl
GuiPaneControl
GuiPopUpMenuCtrl (most)
GuiPopUpMenuCtrlEx (most)
GuiRolloutCtrl
guiT2DObjectCtrl -> setCaption
GuiTabBookCtrl
GuiTextCtrl
GuiTextEditCtrl
GuiTreeViewCtrl (Most)
HTTPObject
LangTable
LevelBuilderSelectionTool
LevelBuilderTileMapEditTool (most)
Memory
MetaScripting
Net
OpenGLText
Output
Packages
PopupMenu
RedBook -> redbookOpen
SelectionToolWidget
SimComponent
SimFunctions (All but getEventTimeLeft)
SimObject (All but call (and %args is nicely ambiguous), getField, getFieldCount, getInternalName, isChildOfGroup, isMemberOfClass)
SimpleNetObject
SimSet (All but findObjectByInternalName (which looks like it was just misformatted), reorderChild)
SimXMLDocument -> attribute,
StreamObject (All but isEOF, isEOS)
StringFunctions -> ltrim, rtrim, trim, strchr, strrchr
t2dAnimationDatablock
t2dPath (almost all)
t2dSceneGraph -> Callbacks: onSafeDelete
t2dSceneObjectSet -> set* (Though all the get* functions -are- documented?)
t2dShape3D -> getShape*
t2dTrigger
TaggedStrings
tools
UndoAction
UndoManager
Video (about half)
====
Some of the stuff can be self-explanatory, true, but a lot of it isn't, and might easily be more complicated than it looks like, or is missing the arguments and/or types from the methods.
Edit (5/12/10):
Just noticed in t2dSceneObject, the entry for mountToLinkpoint is flat-out gone, though the function's still in the game (thankfully).
05/07/2010 (12:26 pm)
1.7.5 offline documentation:Description information for Methods have been removed from Reference -> TGB Reference ->
===
ActionMap
Audio (Most of, but not all)
BehaviorComponent
BehaviorInstance
DynamicConsoleMethodComponent
FieldManipulators
FileDialog
FileObject -> openFor*, writeObject
FileSystem (Most of, but not all)
GameConnection
Global (About half of)
GuiBitmapButtonCtrl
GuiCanvas (About half of)
GuiCheckBoxCtrl
GuiControl (About 12, but some are somewhat self-explanatory)
GuiDirectoryFileListCtrl -> setFilter
GuiDragAndDropControl -> startDragging
GuiFrameSetCtrl
GuiIconButtonCtrl
GuiPaneControl
GuiPopUpMenuCtrl (most)
GuiPopUpMenuCtrlEx (most)
GuiRolloutCtrl
guiT2DObjectCtrl -> setCaption
GuiTabBookCtrl
GuiTextCtrl
GuiTextEditCtrl
GuiTreeViewCtrl (Most)
HTTPObject
LangTable
LevelBuilderSelectionTool
LevelBuilderTileMapEditTool (most)
Memory
MetaScripting
Net
OpenGLText
Output
Packages
PopupMenu
RedBook -> redbookOpen
SelectionToolWidget
SimComponent
SimFunctions (All but getEventTimeLeft)
SimObject (All but call (and %args is nicely ambiguous), getField, getFieldCount, getInternalName, isChildOfGroup, isMemberOfClass)
SimpleNetObject
SimSet (All but findObjectByInternalName (which looks like it was just misformatted), reorderChild)
SimXMLDocument -> attribute,
StreamObject (All but isEOF, isEOS)
StringFunctions -> ltrim, rtrim, trim, strchr, strrchr
t2dAnimationDatablock
t2dPath (almost all)
t2dSceneGraph -> Callbacks: onSafeDelete
t2dSceneObjectSet -> set* (Though all the get* functions -are- documented?)
t2dShape3D -> getShape*
t2dTrigger
TaggedStrings
tools
UndoAction
UndoManager
Video (about half)
====
Some of the stuff can be self-explanatory, true, but a lot of it isn't, and might easily be more complicated than it looks like, or is missing the arguments and/or types from the methods.
Edit (5/12/10):
Just noticed in t2dSceneObject, the entry for mountToLinkpoint is flat-out gone, though the function's still in the game (thankfully).
#98
Your thoughts?
05/18/2010 (3:28 pm)
@ALL - I just went through the Checkers tutorial and fixed quite a few code bugs. I have it working with TGB 1.7.5, but I am tempted to remove the tutorial all together from the documentation. I'm not really happy with it as a whole. If I were to post the fixes, I would actually probably rewrite it completely with behaviors, more explanation on the networking, cleaner code, and so on. That's a lot of effort, and only worth it if a lot of people like it.Your thoughts?
#99
05/18/2010 (3:41 pm)
Btw, the following updates were applied to the TGB 1.7.5 docs:- Updated Shooter tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-33 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-33). Waiting on Jira comment based on 7.1 section
- Updated Levels component tutorials based on Jira Ticket TDOC-38 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-38).
- Updated the tutorials based on Jira Tickets: - TDOC-30 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-30)
- Updated Project component tutorials based on Jira Ticket TDOC-34 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-34).
- Updated Fish Demo tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-37 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-37). Waiting on reply to comment made in Jira.
- Updated Tilemaps tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-39 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-39).
- Updated Using the Animation Builder tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-40 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-40).
- Updated File IO tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-32 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-32). Waiting on reply to comment made in Jira.
- Updated World Limits tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-31 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-31).
- Updated Particles tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-41 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-41).
- Updated Static Sprite tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-30 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-30). Waiting on reply to comment made in Jira.
- Updated Scroller tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-42 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-42).
- Updated Checkers tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-43 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-43).
- Updated Fish Game Tutorial (part 6) tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-44 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-44).
- Updated Behavior Mini-Tutorial and Making a New Level component tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-45 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-45).
- Updated the following tutorials based on Jira Ticket TDOC-29 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-29): - Fish Game
- Updated Changing the Layer component tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-28 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-28).
- Updated Animated Sprites tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-27 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-27).
- Updated Paths tutorial based on Jira Ticket TDOC-25 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-25).
- TDOC-32 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-32)
- TDOC-36 (https://jira.instantaction.com/browse/TDOC-36)
Tutorials Updated:
- Collisions
- File IO
- Static Sprites
- Component saving a level
- Playing a Level (component)
- Executing Scripts (component)
- Editing World Limits (component)
#100
1. There are too many varied results. Scott said he got it working perfectly, it was completely broken for me. This is true for many users, not just the two of us.
2. The artwork is not finished
3. The tutorial is not finished. It's a great start, but there are too many code cleanup and "to do" sections.
4. There are better tutorials that can replace it
Now, I still really like the idea of a checkers tutorial. I think a new one can be written for TGB 1.7.5 and iTorque, which is something I'm adding to my task list.
05/18/2010 (3:54 pm)
I think I have already come to a conclusion with the Checkers tutorial. I'm going to nuke it, remove it completely.1. There are too many varied results. Scott said he got it working perfectly, it was completely broken for me. This is true for many users, not just the two of us.
2. The artwork is not finished
3. The tutorial is not finished. It's a great start, but there are too many code cleanup and "to do" sections.
4. There are better tutorials that can replace it
Now, I still really like the idea of a checkers tutorial. I think a new one can be written for TGB 1.7.5 and iTorque, which is something I'm adding to my task list.
Torque Owner Brian Pickrell
Michael, I'd suggest you reread your last post to see what your documentation really needs: a customer needs to be able to find important information without rummaging through three years' worth of old blog posts and forums. As an example of information that's extremely hard to tease out, why doesn't the Web site state clearly such basic information as what is T2D, what is the difference between T2D and TGB, and is T2D on the market yet?
For those of use who are trying to learn how to use the system, why is the checkers demo still full of all those bugs, incomplete features and half-assed explanations after all these years? You've apparently been running this thread asking for feedback for about two years, but in that time has anyone done anything to fix the checkers demo? In fact, what is the checkers demo FOR? What are we supposed to learn from it?
I could go on. I probably will.