Instant Action and Tx
by Donald "Yadot" Harris · in Torque X 2D · 04/21/2008 (11:35 am) · 10 replies
I tried searching the forums before posting this question but could not find it. I was wondering how does IA handle the networking when using XNA or Torque X as the engine of choice. It's my understanding that from the EULA you have to have a publisher in place in order to use the networking features of XNA. Can someone shed some light on these issues? The EULA and how IA work with Torque X?
#2
04/21/2008 (7:27 pm)
Does anyone know of any projects being made with Torque X for IA?
#3
04/24/2008 (6:52 am)
I am still looking for a clear answer on this one. 
#4
Handle what networking? Game data passed back and forth between a server and client? The IA framework doesn't do any of this, for any engine.
There are no current IA approved games as far as I am aware (and that's an important disclaimer, I don't work in the IA or publishing divisions at GG) that are built within XNA. There are several that are with engines other than Torque, but IA doesn't provide any networking of game data for any of them.
I haven't read the MS XNA 2.0 EULA at all, but I think you are thinking about the LIVE networking API when talking about requiring a publisher to have access to it. .NET 2.0 has plenty of networking capability you can wire in to XNA/TorqueX with no restrictions whatsoever, and since you would be using IA's social "networking" (different use of the word) framework instead of Windows Live, it's totally unrelated to the MS EULA for Windows Live social networking API.
04/24/2008 (7:03 am)
Still not sure I understand the question, which is why I stayed away from it.Quote:
I was wondering how does IA handle the networking when using XNA or Torque X as the engine of choice.
Handle what networking? Game data passed back and forth between a server and client? The IA framework doesn't do any of this, for any engine.
There are no current IA approved games as far as I am aware (and that's an important disclaimer, I don't work in the IA or publishing divisions at GG) that are built within XNA. There are several that are with engines other than Torque, but IA doesn't provide any networking of game data for any of them.
I haven't read the MS XNA 2.0 EULA at all, but I think you are thinking about the LIVE networking API when talking about requiring a publisher to have access to it. .NET 2.0 has plenty of networking capability you can wire in to XNA/TorqueX with no restrictions whatsoever, and since you would be using IA's social "networking" (different use of the word) framework instead of Windows Live, it's totally unrelated to the MS EULA for Windows Live social networking API.
#5
Huh? What EULA is that from?
04/24/2008 (7:31 am)
Quote:It's my understanding that from the EULA you have to have a publisher in place in order to use the networking features of XNA
Huh? What EULA is that from?
#6
ii. Commercial Networked Programs. In the absence of a specific agreement signed by both you and Microsoft which specifically grants you the rights to develop commercial programs that connect to any network, including Xbox Live and/or Games for Windows Live, you may not use the software to develop commercial programs that connect to any network, including Xbox Live and/or Games for Windows Live.
The Microsoft XNA Framework 2.0 EULA specifically prohibits the distribution of commercial networked games that connect to Xbox Live and/or Games for Windows Live in the absence of a specific agreement signed by both you and Microsoft. [13] This means that XNA Game Studio can still be used to develop commercial games and other programs for the Windows platform, although Microsoft's networking support code for Xbox/Windows Live cannot be used. Self-developed network code can still be used inside your XNA project.
Not very clear but that is what I got out of it.
@Zepp
if we use Torque X/XNA networking we will still need to have a publisher. Aggreement with MS.
04/24/2008 (8:45 am)
@Jonathonii. Commercial Networked Programs. In the absence of a specific agreement signed by both you and Microsoft which specifically grants you the rights to develop commercial programs that connect to any network, including Xbox Live and/or Games for Windows Live, you may not use the software to develop commercial programs that connect to any network, including Xbox Live and/or Games for Windows Live.
The Microsoft XNA Framework 2.0 EULA specifically prohibits the distribution of commercial networked games that connect to Xbox Live and/or Games for Windows Live in the absence of a specific agreement signed by both you and Microsoft. [13] This means that XNA Game Studio can still be used to develop commercial games and other programs for the Windows platform, although Microsoft's networking support code for Xbox/Windows Live cannot be used. Self-developed network code can still be used inside your XNA project.
Not very clear but that is what I got out of it.
@Zepp
if we use Torque X/XNA networking we will still need to have a publisher. Aggreement with MS.
#7
04/24/2008 (8:50 am)
@Donald - You can use networking without an agreement, just not Windows Live.
#8
Almost certainly not what they meant, but it's pretty blatant in what it restricts. I'm not a lawyer of course, and this is a personal opinion not an official GarageGames/IA one, but that does seem to require written permission to make an XNA game intended for InstantAction.
They try to clarify it in the follow up paragraph, but that "clarification" effectively makes it more muddled, and possibly unenforceable (depends on the rest of the legalese I guess).
04/24/2008 (9:15 am)
I can see the confusion he's worried about though--that first section (ii) is quite disturbing. Reading it in "plain english", that means you cannot use the Internet, or even a LAN to make a multi-player game.Almost certainly not what they meant, but it's pretty blatant in what it restricts. I'm not a lawyer of course, and this is a personal opinion not an official GarageGames/IA one, but that does seem to require written permission to make an XNA game intended for InstantAction.
They try to clarify it in the follow up paragraph, but that "clarification" effectively makes it more muddled, and possibly unenforceable (depends on the rest of the legalese I guess).
#9
exactly... that's why i was hoping someone on the forums may have gone down this path. I was hoping they could shed some light on this subject. I want to use Torque X becuase I want use the extras that come with it and plus at one point I would like to see the game on both XBLA and IA. Now I am just getting more and more confused by this legal goodness.
04/24/2008 (9:49 am)
@Zeppexactly... that's why i was hoping someone on the forums may have gone down this path. I was hoping they could shed some light on this subject. I want to use Torque X becuase I want use the extras that come with it and plus at one point I would like to see the game on both XBLA and IA. Now I am just getting more and more confused by this legal goodness.
#10
System.Net is NOT part of the XNA framework, it's part of the .net framework that XNA is built on top of, therefore the XNA EULA doesn't apply to it, but instead the .net 2.0 EULA would apply.
04/24/2008 (11:18 am)
This is 100% based on my memory of what I found and talking with the XNA team UNOFFICIALLY, so take it with a grain of salt. I remember in the creator's club forums a lot of back and forth about networking and the license (i forgot about that bit you pasted in until you pasted it) and Dave ended up saying that they were rewriting the EULA because you wouldn't need any sort of agreement to use System.Net, only the live stuff and networking on the 360. Basically what happened was MS was thinking about the 360 when the wrote that bit and didn't bother to specify it.System.Net is NOT part of the XNA framework, it's part of the .net framework that XNA is built on top of, therefore the XNA EULA doesn't apply to it, but instead the .net 2.0 EULA would apply.
Associate David Montgomery-Blake
David MontgomeryBlake