LOD Problem with a small Town
by Maylock DeathTwister Stansbury · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 03/21/2008 (6:00 pm) · 10 replies
Hay guys,
OK I have run into a brick wall here and I am not sure exactly how to proceed now, so I decided it is time to start posting here in the Big C area /smiles.....
A Picture is worth a thousand words so:
We have been working on a project called ATOMIX World and I have this Town I build in Constructor and it does work great with no LOD to it, but it is just big enough that when I tried to LOD the whole Town it ended up taking so many resources that we had to o back to the Original non LOD Town until I can solve this problem. I am hoping I can get V side to chime in here or someone that can give some advice other then cutting the town up which I can do, but I really like it the way it is if I can make it work. This is just one of many complexes we have and also the only one I am having trouble with so far. You can o to our
theatomizer.com to check out screen shots and more about all of what we are doing ATM if you are curious with our ATOMIX World.
Now I thought maybe I could just make the _0 LOD one at 250 like I have now, but I am thinking maybe I should make _1 out completely and turn _2 into _1 and just use 2 LOD levels is all so then if I make the lod on_1 maybe very small like 64, or 32 so it only LOD's outside of the Town as I am thinking that when you are in the town, while if you look at the far end of the Town, there should be some LOD in it, but since we are standing in the hi-detail area of it it does not show like it should, I am causing errors in the code somehow so it is paging very very slow for it to work right, as it is much worse with the LOD then without. In fact no fps under 30 when no lod on the buildings in town. So while it still works? it really doesn't because of the huge load it is putting on the engine. But we have not put all this under load yet with lots of people as that is the proff to the pudding as we say, so trying to get this worked out first so we don't crash like bandits when we do start testing the servers here very soon.
The other weired thing going on is when we just zone in and look in one particular direction we get very bad lag down to under 5 fps until we look away from this screen shot,
We have taken everything out in that direction from windows, to doorways and so on and the Lag is still there, and we haven't a clue as to why. So this is kinda a side not to what I am having trouble on, but if someone has any help that I can try? I am all ears /smiles.... Thanks in advance guys for the help.
Maylock DeathTwister Stansbury
OK I have run into a brick wall here and I am not sure exactly how to proceed now, so I decided it is time to start posting here in the Big C area /smiles.....
A Picture is worth a thousand words so:
We have been working on a project called ATOMIX World and I have this Town I build in Constructor and it does work great with no LOD to it, but it is just big enough that when I tried to LOD the whole Town it ended up taking so many resources that we had to o back to the Original non LOD Town until I can solve this problem. I am hoping I can get V side to chime in here or someone that can give some advice other then cutting the town up which I can do, but I really like it the way it is if I can make it work. This is just one of many complexes we have and also the only one I am having trouble with so far. You can o to our
theatomizer.com to check out screen shots and more about all of what we are doing ATM if you are curious with our ATOMIX World.
Now I thought maybe I could just make the _0 LOD one at 250 like I have now, but I am thinking maybe I should make _1 out completely and turn _2 into _1 and just use 2 LOD levels is all so then if I make the lod on_1 maybe very small like 64, or 32 so it only LOD's outside of the Town as I am thinking that when you are in the town, while if you look at the far end of the Town, there should be some LOD in it, but since we are standing in the hi-detail area of it it does not show like it should, I am causing errors in the code somehow so it is paging very very slow for it to work right, as it is much worse with the LOD then without. In fact no fps under 30 when no lod on the buildings in town. So while it still works? it really doesn't because of the huge load it is putting on the engine. But we have not put all this under load yet with lots of people as that is the proff to the pudding as we say, so trying to get this worked out first so we don't crash like bandits when we do start testing the servers here very soon.
The other weired thing going on is when we just zone in and look in one particular direction we get very bad lag down to under 5 fps until we look away from this screen shot,
We have taken everything out in that direction from windows, to doorways and so on and the Lag is still there, and we haven't a clue as to why. So this is kinda a side not to what I am having trouble on, but if someone has any help that I can try? I am all ears /smiles.... Thanks in advance guys for the help.
Maylock DeathTwister Stansbury
#2
Yes I can cut it up, but I would rather not. Not so much about the rework time as it is all there, but more because I have an idea if I can make this work to make it faster this way. Look at it as a whole level by itself, and after you go outside the town you zone out into another part of the world much like Guild Wars. If all the triggers and so on start to work right in Constructor I think I can make it work, maybe, but I am prepared to cut it up if I have to. But we running 30fps or higher right now in the Town with no LOD, so other then that one area I posted on we are befuddled with, we trying to et this dicked out, so yes work in progress hahaha.
Maylock
03/21/2008 (7:43 pm)
No I think that is how it would normally be done, your right, but I think this can work well with some tweaks. And yes I could do that, but then I have a ton of buildings and that can add up as well in other ways, so now you starting to get my delema. Yes I can cut it up, but I would rather not. Not so much about the rework time as it is all there, but more because I have an idea if I can make this work to make it faster this way. Look at it as a whole level by itself, and after you go outside the town you zone out into another part of the world much like Guild Wars. If all the triggers and so on start to work right in Constructor I think I can make it work, maybe, but I am prepared to cut it up if I have to. But we running 30fps or higher right now in the Town with no LOD, so other then that one area I posted on we are befuddled with, we trying to et this dicked out, so yes work in progress hahaha.
Maylock
#3
We have a full city size area with 60+fps in most areas, our lowest fps is 25 in heavy traffic areas, and we have only moderatly optimized these models (its still alpha models with only 10% with LOD and about half with portals)FYI, if you looking for scale, the speck on the bridge is a human model.
to see other large scale pics of our constructor buildings we have tons in our weekly blog. Constructor has alot of potential, you just have to be prepared to give and take the resources, even if it seems a bit odd.
www.mydreamrpg.com/community/showthread.php?t=1594
03/21/2008 (8:44 pm)
If you split it up and portalized the buildings, in addition to LOD, you would easily increase your fps. Also you could use other forms of occlusion. We have a full city size area with 60+fps in most areas, our lowest fps is 25 in heavy traffic areas, and we have only moderatly optimized these models (its still alpha models with only 10% with LOD and about half with portals)FYI, if you looking for scale, the speck on the bridge is a human model.
to see other large scale pics of our constructor buildings we have tons in our weekly blog. Constructor has alot of potential, you just have to be prepared to give and take the resources, even if it seems a bit odd.
www.mydreamrpg.com/community/showthread.php?t=1594
#4
Also, doesn't BSP like only 90 degree angles? And have problems with other degrees? Thus a healthy use of detail brushes is usually required.
Anyhow, that's me out of ideas. I suppose if it all works better without LODs, then skip LODs.
03/24/2008 (10:52 am)
Just a thought, but if your LODs start at 250 pixels (and I think that's 250 wide not high), and the player is in the town, then your LODs are never going to get used. The only time your LODs would come into play was when the whole town model was far from your player and less than 250 pixels wide - which judging from the size of your models would be some distance indeed.Also, doesn't BSP like only 90 degree angles? And have problems with other degrees? Thus a healthy use of detail brushes is usually required.
Anyhow, that's me out of ideas. I suppose if it all works better without LODs, then skip LODs.
#5
sorry to take so log getting back, but as I said I have been swamped Arrg. OK first off thanks so very much for all your input and I am taking ll to heart, believe me. and almost all the building in the level are all separate and LOD and work just fine.But I have a very special reason for trying to keep it a complete complex if I an for many reasons I will not go into now, and if I have to cut it up, as I said before I will, but you guys have given me an idea I am going to try first and if it works hella cool /smiles...
I have portalized many of the buildings and I will finish those, but I had also wanted to make t it's own level as well so I need to I think portalize the whole town as well, think that may help me as well. Anyway worth a try and see what happens. Went and look a all your stuff Edward cool levels, looks like nice well made buildings, are they all .difs and Loded? Also i need to check more into what your were saying about occlusions and I'm not sure I understand any of that so going to hit the books more on that area till I do, so thanks for the directions to look into.
Hy Steve, yes I agree, and I also think that is causing conflick with the engine somehow, maybe do to the fact that there are 2 lighting packs in tge engine and we are looking into that one as well, the lighting kit issues. So if I do use LOD it will be maybe just one at 250 ad one for if you are outside the zone looking in at 64 or so, there is a way, just have to figure out how to skin that cat is all.
OK going to try and do some experiments then get back to you guys.
Maylock
03/26/2008 (7:53 pm)
Hay all,sorry to take so log getting back, but as I said I have been swamped Arrg. OK first off thanks so very much for all your input and I am taking ll to heart, believe me. and almost all the building in the level are all separate and LOD and work just fine.But I have a very special reason for trying to keep it a complete complex if I an for many reasons I will not go into now, and if I have to cut it up, as I said before I will, but you guys have given me an idea I am going to try first and if it works hella cool /smiles...
I have portalized many of the buildings and I will finish those, but I had also wanted to make t it's own level as well so I need to I think portalize the whole town as well, think that may help me as well. Anyway worth a try and see what happens. Went and look a all your stuff Edward cool levels, looks like nice well made buildings, are they all .difs and Loded? Also i need to check more into what your were saying about occlusions and I'm not sure I understand any of that so going to hit the books more on that area till I do, so thanks for the directions to look into.
Hy Steve, yes I agree, and I also think that is causing conflick with the engine somehow, maybe do to the fact that there are 2 lighting packs in tge engine and we are looking into that one as well, the lighting kit issues. So if I do use LOD it will be maybe just one at 250 ad one for if you are outside the zone looking in at 64 or so, there is a way, just have to figure out how to skin that cat is all.
OK going to try and do some experiments then get back to you guys.
Maylock
#6
sorry to take so log getting back, but as I said I have been swamped Arrg. OK first off thanks so very much for all your input and I am taking ll to heart, believe me. and almost all the building in the level are all separate and LOD and work just fine.But I have a very special reason for trying to keep it a complete complex if I an for many reasons I will not go into now, and if I have to cut it up, as I said before I will, but you guys have given me an idea I am going to try first and if it works hella cool /smiles...
I have portalized many of the buildings and I will finish those, but I had also wanted to make t it's own level as well so I need to I think portalize the whole town as well, think that may help me as well. Anyway worth a try and see what happens. Went and look a all your stuff Edward cool levels, looks like nice well made buildings, are they all .difs and Loded? Also i need to check more into what your were saying about occlusions and I'm not sure I understand any of that so going to hit the books more on that area till I do, so thanks for the directions to look into.
Hy Steve, yes I agree, and I also think that is causing conflick with the engine somehow, maybe do to the fact that there are 2 lighting packs in tge engine and we are looking into that one as well, the lighting kit issues. So if I do use LOD it will be maybe just one at 250 ad one for if you are outside the zone looking in at 64 or so, there is a way, just have to figure out how to skin that cat is all.
OK going to try and do some experiments then get back to you guys.
Maylock
03/26/2008 (8:33 pm)
Hay all,sorry to take so log getting back, but as I said I have been swamped Arrg. OK first off thanks so very much for all your input and I am taking ll to heart, believe me. and almost all the building in the level are all separate and LOD and work just fine.But I have a very special reason for trying to keep it a complete complex if I an for many reasons I will not go into now, and if I have to cut it up, as I said before I will, but you guys have given me an idea I am going to try first and if it works hella cool /smiles...
I have portalized many of the buildings and I will finish those, but I had also wanted to make t it's own level as well so I need to I think portalize the whole town as well, think that may help me as well. Anyway worth a try and see what happens. Went and look a all your stuff Edward cool levels, looks like nice well made buildings, are they all .difs and Loded? Also i need to check more into what your were saying about occlusions and I'm not sure I understand any of that so going to hit the books more on that area till I do, so thanks for the directions to look into.
Hy Steve, yes I agree, and I also think that is causing conflick with the engine somehow, maybe do to the fact that there are 2 lighting packs in tge engine and we are looking into that one as well, the lighting kit issues. So if I do use LOD it will be maybe just one at 250 ad one for if you are outside the zone looking in at 64 or so, there is a way, just have to figure out how to skin that cat is all.
OK going to try and do some experiments then get back to you guys.
Maylock
#7
03/26/2008 (8:42 pm)
Np MAylock, was reading your profile, id love to talk to you, we are looking for more artists and level designers for Fantasci: Hidden War. Drop me a line in email or MSN at racs333@hotmail.com, i can maybe give you some pointers. For more pics you can check out my blog at www.mydreamrpg.com/community/showthread.php?p=13109#post13109 thats the lastest post. And has some more pics.
#9
Owyn M.
03/28/2008 (3:24 am)
Like Steve YorkshireRifles said, you should not be exporting an entire city as one interior. Any time you look at one part of the interior, the engine will render the entire thing. This is will give you very low framerates and is probably the cause of the lag you've been experiencing. You should export each building in the city seprately, and then put them together in the editor.Owyn M.
#10
Well actually it is a little more complicated then that, but I think I found a work around for it, as yes your right it will not LOD right as it is to big (Always knew that), but not if I do it another way. if that don't work,then ya I know I cut it up, I always knew that I can do that, but I think there is a way to skin this Cat my way,so I am not giving up yet /winks...I got an idea /smiles...will post it if it works. Something in a post I saw I want to try first. and Edward put me on a track as well, but it also gave me more things to study and earn hahaha. Thanks for the input Owyn I do take it to heart.
DT
03/28/2008 (10:44 am)
Dudes, smilesWell actually it is a little more complicated then that, but I think I found a work around for it, as yes your right it will not LOD right as it is to big (Always knew that), but not if I do it another way. if that don't work,then ya I know I cut it up, I always knew that I can do that, but I think there is a way to skin this Cat my way,so I am not giving up yet /winks...I got an idea /smiles...will post it if it works. Something in a post I saw I want to try first. and Edward put me on a track as well, but it also gave me more things to study and earn hahaha. Thanks for the input Owyn I do take it to heart.
DT
Associate Steve Acaster
[YorkshireRifles.com]
Are you trying to LOD and export the whole town as a single DIF? (from the looks of your constructor screenshot)
Wouldn't it be best to build all the buildings individually, LOD them, then export, and arrange them into your town design/layout in game?
Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick here?