Patents and Indie Risks
by Jason Gossiaux · in General Discussion · 03/05/2008 (9:36 pm) · 4 replies
With my job I've become more and more aware of the patent laws that can take the best designs and turn them into your worst nightmare. It is very easy to miss a patent that you might be infringing upon - especially with the number of squatters out there today.
Well, I've read several articles involving lawsuits over algorithms and various game design concepts (a well known example was Carmack's Reverse), and a recent PC Gamer outlined a bunch of patents I wasn't aware of. Such things as patenting "The use of Scoring" and "The concept of playing a mini game during level loading" in video games.
Realistically how aware should Indie game developers be of the patent situations? If I make a hybrid fps-rts game will I possibly step on some common patents and invoke millions of dollars in lawsuits? Many of these patents seem ridiculous to me, and in most cases - trivial. But as an Indie you don't have the legal means, the research resources or the clout to try and muscle people into submission so your game gets out the door.
I am hoping my concern is unjustified. I don't think my game is going to be that far outside the mold that it would risk litigation. But eh, seeing as how we run into it a lot at work in the hardware design industry I'm willing to do what it takes to be prepared.
Anyone have thoughts on the matter?
Well, I've read several articles involving lawsuits over algorithms and various game design concepts (a well known example was Carmack's Reverse), and a recent PC Gamer outlined a bunch of patents I wasn't aware of. Such things as patenting "The use of Scoring" and "The concept of playing a mini game during level loading" in video games.
Realistically how aware should Indie game developers be of the patent situations? If I make a hybrid fps-rts game will I possibly step on some common patents and invoke millions of dollars in lawsuits? Many of these patents seem ridiculous to me, and in most cases - trivial. But as an Indie you don't have the legal means, the research resources or the clout to try and muscle people into submission so your game gets out the door.
I am hoping my concern is unjustified. I don't think my game is going to be that far outside the mold that it would risk litigation. But eh, seeing as how we run into it a lot at work in the hardware design industry I'm willing to do what it takes to be prepared.
Anyone have thoughts on the matter?
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#2
That said, before you release even an alpha build to the public, talk to a good local lawyer about it. Research possible infringing patents, look up the holding companies past litigation record, and have a lawyer give you his professional opinion based on that.
03/06/2008 (10:56 am)
Indie developers have nowhere near as deep of pockets as even small commercial companies have. Given the chance to sue a guy with a $70k a year salary and a hobbiest attitude towards their project, or a company with $2mil a year income and a dependence on releasing said game to survive, the patent trolls will target the company that's got the bigger payoff.That said, before you release even an alpha build to the public, talk to a good local lawyer about it. Research possible infringing patents, look up the holding companies past litigation record, and have a lawyer give you his professional opinion based on that.
#3
Who knows for sure. And i don't believe EverQuest ( SOE - Sony Online Entertainment ) has any legal Issues happening from it.
Example of the difference i am pointing at is Artist draws a Troll, company uses that same drawing exactly as is for a game, that would be reason for Legal suit.. But if an Indie draws their own form of that same Troll and makes a game with it, your safe. I believe it has more to do with Origin of concept being replicated into a money making venture such as Mud Flaps, Coffe Mugs or a Game.
Lets say you make a game that is totally original like square marbles..thats original enough to patent.
Then if some person uses your concept / original square marble in some form that generates revenue for them, then you have a right to a law suit.
But simply making a game to play during startup of another game.. now thats original enough ( then ) to constitute a patent.. But if you make a Game inside a game to then your safe i would assume since SOE has done that too.
All of you have to just know that there is a finite world we live in, eventually something is going to overlap like Trolls, Gnomes etc.. But if your making your own Art of a Gnome etc, then who cares ( legally ).
Don't be afraid to ask a lawyer of course, but certianly don't waste your time trying to invent the next best way to slice bread before you made the Loaf first.
What I am saying here is basically to forget your fear of Lawsuit and Patents..you'll waste your time thinking yourself out of the next best game by reasoning that you shouldn't make that game because of some chance of Law or Patent.
It's a speed bump that you can do without.
Just my opinion.
03/06/2008 (2:11 pm)
EverQuest must be in a heap of litigation then if the original inventor of Troll, Orc, Gnome etc was Patented.Who knows for sure. And i don't believe EverQuest ( SOE - Sony Online Entertainment ) has any legal Issues happening from it.
Example of the difference i am pointing at is Artist draws a Troll, company uses that same drawing exactly as is for a game, that would be reason for Legal suit.. But if an Indie draws their own form of that same Troll and makes a game with it, your safe. I believe it has more to do with Origin of concept being replicated into a money making venture such as Mud Flaps, Coffe Mugs or a Game.
Lets say you make a game that is totally original like square marbles..thats original enough to patent.
Then if some person uses your concept / original square marble in some form that generates revenue for them, then you have a right to a law suit.
But simply making a game to play during startup of another game.. now thats original enough ( then ) to constitute a patent.. But if you make a Game inside a game to then your safe i would assume since SOE has done that too.
All of you have to just know that there is a finite world we live in, eventually something is going to overlap like Trolls, Gnomes etc.. But if your making your own Art of a Gnome etc, then who cares ( legally ).
Don't be afraid to ask a lawyer of course, but certianly don't waste your time trying to invent the next best way to slice bread before you made the Loaf first.
What I am saying here is basically to forget your fear of Lawsuit and Patents..you'll waste your time thinking yourself out of the next best game by reasoning that you shouldn't make that game because of some chance of Law or Patent.
It's a speed bump that you can do without.
Just my opinion.
#4
In the hardware design arena it seems many entities defend their patents very aggressively - even against the small guys. You come up with something that you *think* has been done before, like say a generic wireless radio. Then come to find out there are 100s of patents related to fundamental circuit and antenna design concepts that if taken at face value could shut down the wireless industry :P
I thought I'd ask just in case people had a list of 10 things to watch out for, or perhaps knew of a website that had concepts you should avoid. Thanks for the responses!
03/07/2008 (12:11 am)
Cool. I am very glad the feedback seems to be positive with regards to this. In the hardware design arena it seems many entities defend their patents very aggressively - even against the small guys. You come up with something that you *think* has been done before, like say a generic wireless radio. Then come to find out there are 100s of patents related to fundamental circuit and antenna design concepts that if taken at face value could shut down the wireless industry :P
I thought I'd ask just in case people had a list of 10 things to watch out for, or perhaps knew of a website that had concepts you should avoid. Thanks for the responses!
Torque 3D Owner Ted Southard