Teacher: "We Don't use Normal maps" WTF?
by Marvin Hawkins · in General Discussion · 02/26/2008 (9:45 pm) · 27 replies
Okay this was just soooo idiotic I just had to share.
I'm in class Game Art and Design Program; the class Interior Worlds and Spaces. This class is basically a precursor to Level Design. The school uses the unreal 3 engine. So here's the situation. My teacher isn't next generation. She doesn't know what zbrush is. The last title she worked on was NBA Ballers. Which came out in 2004 on Ps2. She forces us into low poly counts, I get the reason why she does that. We need to learn to do more with less.
but anyway yesterday she's arguing with a student over normal maps. I overhear her say. "We don't use nomral maps in the industry. When the engine chugs we toss those out first."
I thought to myself, um what? I asked her if she's even seen the unreal engine 3. Her response: "I don't play any shooter games." Yikes.
I understand there are other standards. Us for example, we don't need high res stuff to make a great game. But this school is trying to train us to create stuff for consoles.
I know she's wrong, but my question is: should I talk to my dean? lest she corrupt other students that don't know any better?
I mean is she even close to right? Where's the normal maps? Are we still doing 512 x 512 maps for characters?
I'm in class Game Art and Design Program; the class Interior Worlds and Spaces. This class is basically a precursor to Level Design. The school uses the unreal 3 engine. So here's the situation. My teacher isn't next generation. She doesn't know what zbrush is. The last title she worked on was NBA Ballers. Which came out in 2004 on Ps2. She forces us into low poly counts, I get the reason why she does that. We need to learn to do more with less.
but anyway yesterday she's arguing with a student over normal maps. I overhear her say. "We don't use nomral maps in the industry. When the engine chugs we toss those out first."
I thought to myself, um what? I asked her if she's even seen the unreal engine 3. Her response: "I don't play any shooter games." Yikes.
I understand there are other standards. Us for example, we don't need high res stuff to make a great game. But this school is trying to train us to create stuff for consoles.
I know she's wrong, but my question is: should I talk to my dean? lest she corrupt other students that don't know any better?
I mean is she even close to right? Where's the normal maps? Are we still doing 512 x 512 maps for characters?
#22
I've already decided to learn it on my own. I'm not worried about me, so much as the other kids she may teach. She's not a terrible teacher.... but she teaches a very good lesson: Adapt or be phased out. I say this only because she's complained to us that no game company will have her.
So yeah I'm not trying to say "I'm better than her" I'm humble enough to know that I'm no better than anyone else. I have to continually learn in order to be up to speed.
03/06/2008 (6:32 pm)
I wasn't trying to come off as pretentious. I can see how that could be seen that way. I'm just baffled by her unwillingness to acknowledge something that is important. I've already decided to learn it on my own. I'm not worried about me, so much as the other kids she may teach. She's not a terrible teacher.... but she teaches a very good lesson: Adapt or be phased out. I say this only because she's complained to us that no game company will have her.
So yeah I'm not trying to say "I'm better than her" I'm humble enough to know that I'm no better than anyone else. I have to continually learn in order to be up to speed.
#23
03/06/2008 (7:11 pm)
@Marvin: What school is this?
#24
Fancy tech is just a box of nails in a much bigger toolbox. It's not critical. At least thats been my experience.
03/06/2008 (8:46 pm)
Again... Id argue that it's not actually *that* important to know. I taught myself high poly workflow when I was first starting out cause I thought it was, but surprisingly, I've never needed to utilize that knowledge professionally. The games industry is MUCH bigger than any particular genre or platform. Fancy tech is just a box of nails in a much bigger toolbox. It's not critical. At least thats been my experience.
#25
I'm also curious as to which school this is.
03/15/2008 (2:20 am)
Well, considering that he's in a Game Art class, you'd think Normal Maps be one of the more touched-on topics.I'm also curious as to which school this is.
#26
So while it is unfortunate that the instructors information is off base (keep in mind, 2002 was her last year in the industry someone said) about their pontial usage in some modern games, if the course is doing a good job at teachin the fundementals for game art, then what the hell is the big deal? Not all games need pixel shaders. In fact most of the highest grossing titles on the market dont use any pixel shaders at all, so stop acting like its Mario vs Sonic schoolyard fight and just chill out guys.
Logan
03/15/2008 (3:17 pm)
Normal maps are nice but they aren't the end all and be all. Normal maps don't make bad are look any better, if anything they make bad art really stand out. So while it is unfortunate that the instructors information is off base (keep in mind, 2002 was her last year in the industry someone said) about their pontial usage in some modern games, if the course is doing a good job at teachin the fundementals for game art, then what the hell is the big deal? Not all games need pixel shaders. In fact most of the highest grossing titles on the market dont use any pixel shaders at all, so stop acting like its Mario vs Sonic schoolyard fight and just chill out guys.
Logan
#27
Your primary concern should be learning the fundamentals, which is what I'd imagine your teacher still intends to teach. Once you know how to make good low poly models, unwrapping them, doing texture art and the like, *then* you can worry about the importance and application of normal maps, but as Logan said, if your base art isn't good, normal maps won't suddenly fix it.
03/15/2008 (4:11 pm)
While it's unfortunate that the teacher is offbase, as said previously, I'm having to agree with Logan there. If you understand the fundamentals and can do good model work, learning how to do normal maps later on from online tutorials or follow-up classes elsewhere will be easy to do. Your primary concern should be learning the fundamentals, which is what I'd imagine your teacher still intends to teach. Once you know how to make good low poly models, unwrapping them, doing texture art and the like, *then* you can worry about the importance and application of normal maps, but as Logan said, if your base art isn't good, normal maps won't suddenly fix it.
Torque 3D Owner Scott Warren
My college loans just just got paid off last year. When I seen this thread i felt the need to share my experience.
At some point in life i started getting Old and the arrogance went with that young version of me. Seems I don't really have such a desire to prove myself as much to anyone but myself now.
Feeling comfortable with my life choices I know who I am, and don't often ask for advice unless i seriously cannot get my head wrapped around a subject.
My days now are filled with Wife and 3 kids, and a Job while TGE / TGEA is a hobby I come here to learn.
I'm no longer as quick tempered as I used to be either, Wife and Children teach me Patience and Tolerance.
Bringing that mentality here to a game forum I am here to learn from you developers ( minus the high college fees ). I feel I can truly trust the members here, more so then college professors.
Anyways...Arrogance can lead to great things or a small cell in a Prison somewhere but when that arrogance is tempered with getting older and having people to depend on you as their sole provider and the one to wipe away tears as a Daddy.. you come to terms with your arrogance and it eventually fades.
Though my wife is reading this as I type she denies I have lost that attitude. LOL.
Well. I think the reason for the whole post was lost in the true story.. My advice to Marvin is to come to grips with what he feels is most beneficial to him, make that decision and follow through.
Second guessing yourself can only lead you to the nearest dumpster to get a cardboard box that you'll kick around when you move.. usually to another ally where you lay it on the ground and sleep for the night.
Either stay in the class and absorb like a sponge, what the teacher has to offer.. or.. Take another avenue at some other school. But don't stand around waiting for a Teacher to decide to teach another way since we all know thats not going to happen.