Game done, not working on 98
by Ricardo Vladimiro · in Torque Game Builder · 12/14/2007 (7:07 am) · 13 replies
Hi everyone
It seems all my worst fears regarding TGB are all true.
Balloon Bliss is almost ready. We have a lot of attention from our contact with distributors and we are only doing some tweaks that were asked for. Appart from that the game would be a sure deal, except: it does not run on Windows 98, unlike what is said in the requirements page. Some distributors say that's ok, but a huge slump in the sales, others won't even publish it. It's really from dream to hell in a couple of emails.
Take a look at the screenshots here: www.vortixgames.com
So we are in trouble. We were considering the Pro licensing, re-writing a lot of TGB like we did with the script base so it would become more casual development friendly, but if the engine does not run on a Windows 98, I can only imagine the time and trouble we would have with whatever we would be interested in doing.
My question is, can GG please look up this problem or can someone help me with a 1.5 build that runs on Windows 98, please?
It seems all my worst fears regarding TGB are all true.
Balloon Bliss is almost ready. We have a lot of attention from our contact with distributors and we are only doing some tweaks that were asked for. Appart from that the game would be a sure deal, except: it does not run on Windows 98, unlike what is said in the requirements page. Some distributors say that's ok, but a huge slump in the sales, others won't even publish it. It's really from dream to hell in a couple of emails.
Take a look at the screenshots here: www.vortixgames.com
So we are in trouble. We were considering the Pro licensing, re-writing a lot of TGB like we did with the script base so it would become more casual development friendly, but if the engine does not run on a Windows 98, I can only imagine the time and trouble we would have with whatever we would be interested in doing.
My question is, can GG please look up this problem or can someone help me with a 1.5 build that runs on Windows 98, please?
#2
You are right, I should have posted more info. I'm sorry, my post was somewhat out of despair.
The error is prior to window initialization and it is this:
And the console.log is this
I got this from a Pentium4 (DirectX8) with 512RAM and a GeForce FX5500. I have a dual boot in the same machine to Windows XP and it runs great. A Pentium3 (866MHz) with Windows XP runs perfectly. We asked people to check on different configurations from video cards to OS, and all the results are the same: Windows XP runs perfectly, Windows 98 SE does not run, doens't matter what DirectX, graphics card, memory, etc, it just won't start and will give that exact same error.
For testing purposes I created a brand new project and ran it. That error and console.log is from the clean project.
Hope this helps.
12/14/2007 (10:38 am)
Hi MatthewYou are right, I should have posted more info. I'm sorry, my post was somewhat out of despair.
The error is prior to window initialization and it is this:
And the console.log is this
//-------------------------- 12/14/2007 -- 18:21:17 -----
Processor Init:
Intel Pentium 4, ~1.50 Ghz
(timed at roughly 1.49 Ghz)
FPU detected
MMX detected
SSE detected
Math Init:
Installing Standard C extensions
Installing Assembly extensions
Installing FPU extensions
Installing MMX extensions
Installing SSE extensions
Input Init:
DirectInput enabled.
Initializing chunk mappings...
o 'TEXT' maps to TextChunk
o 'SCHK' maps to UnknownChunk
o 'SCHK' maps to SimChunk
setModPaths: invalid mod path directory name: 'common'
Loading compiled script C:/WINDOWS/All Users/Desktop/Prototipo/common/main.cs.
setModPaths: invalid mod path directory name: 'game'
Loading compiled script C:/WINDOWS/All Users/Desktop/Prototipo/game/main.cs.
% - Initializing Common
Loading compiled script C:/WINDOWS/All Users/Desktop/Prototipo/common/preferences/defaultPrefs.cs.
Reading Display Device information...
Primary Display Device Found:
Vendor Id: VEN_0000I got this from a Pentium4 (DirectX8) with 512RAM and a GeForce FX5500. I have a dual boot in the same machine to Windows XP and it runs great. A Pentium3 (866MHz) with Windows XP runs perfectly. We asked people to check on different configurations from video cards to OS, and all the results are the same: Windows XP runs perfectly, Windows 98 SE does not run, doens't matter what DirectX, graphics card, memory, etc, it just won't start and will give that exact same error.
For testing purposes I created a brand new project and ran it. That error and console.log is from the clean project.
Hope this helps.
#3
Will her changes ever be added to "stock" TGB?
12/14/2007 (12:08 pm)
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 98 known to be unsupported? Also, didn't Amanda Fitch submit the fixes for this, but they have yet to be added to the engine? www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=56497Will her changes ever be added to "stock" TGB?
#4
I am aware that there are games published done with TGB that run on 98. Those games had changes in the source code, for instance, regarding unicode support. This is confirmed. You don't need further changes unless you want to support other renderer or something, like Amanda. The changes are even documented and they work.
So, it boils down to this: if the changes are known (not Amanda's, but unicode related) why isn't TGBGame simply compiled with the changes and that's it, put it in the package for download and problem solved!
I see four ways of solving this:
1. I buy the Pro license, which I'm not inclined to do since the requirements I read before buying the product clearly state that games done with it run on 98.
2. I hire someone that has a Pro license, which I don't want for the same reason, but as an option it does not look that bad, I just wonder if it's legal.
3. GG acknowleges this LONG term issue and presents a solution which, really, isn't that hard.
4. I get a permission to change the source code without buying it (for this and this game only) and after solving it, send the source code and/or build to GG.
12/14/2007 (12:32 pm)
Actually, you'll only find that out when you access the private forums, because, if you look at the reqs page www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tgb/requirements/ it clearly says that the minimum requirement is Windows 98.I am aware that there are games published done with TGB that run on 98. Those games had changes in the source code, for instance, regarding unicode support. This is confirmed. You don't need further changes unless you want to support other renderer or something, like Amanda. The changes are even documented and they work.
So, it boils down to this: if the changes are known (not Amanda's, but unicode related) why isn't TGBGame simply compiled with the changes and that's it, put it in the package for download and problem solved!
I see four ways of solving this:
1. I buy the Pro license, which I'm not inclined to do since the requirements I read before buying the product clearly state that games done with it run on 98.
2. I hire someone that has a Pro license, which I don't want for the same reason, but as an option it does not look that bad, I just wonder if it's legal.
3. GG acknowleges this LONG term issue and presents a solution which, really, isn't that hard.
4. I get a permission to change the source code without buying it (for this and this game only) and after solving it, send the source code and/or build to GG.
#5
I'm 99% sure it would be legal for you to use an EXE modified by someone else who holds a pro license. I can't remember exactly where it was discussed, but I remember someone asking this on the forums and I think a GG employee said it was ok.
12/14/2007 (12:57 pm)
Wow, it really does say that GAMES made with TGB will run on 98... interesting. I'm 99% sure it would be legal for you to use an EXE modified by someone else who holds a pro license. I can't remember exactly where it was discussed, but I remember someone asking this on the forums and I think a GG employee said it was ok.
#6
12/17/2007 (12:55 am)
I'm happy with the new 1.6, but when the dust settles, can someone look this up please?
#7
Can I please have the confirmation that I can use the executable to launch the game?
12/19/2007 (1:31 am)
I've contracted the services of a Pro licensee and the issue is solved.Can I please have the confirmation that I can use the executable to launch the game?
#8
12/19/2007 (9:41 am)
Yes you can, to ensure there are no complications I granted you a Pro license, partially to help with this situation and also in appreciation of past feedback you have given me and an ongoing development relationship :)
#9
12/19/2007 (10:34 am)
I guess all I can do is to thank you and GG and offer back the solution to this long problem. Who should I address with the files? Warning: testing is needed.
#10
I would be the person to contact,
mattl@garagegames.com
12/19/2007 (10:47 am)
I didn't mean to imply you had to offer something to us, though if you do want to offer the fixes you received then we would gladly take them, and possibly vet them to be included in future releases.I would be the person to contact,
mattl@garagegames.com
#11
12/19/2007 (1:13 pm)
I'm curious what the problem was. I know for a fact that one issue with Windows 98 is that the OpenAL dlls/drivers are now unsupported on that platform.
#12
12/19/2007 (2:40 pm)
I just contracted the service regarding the source code. We did some minor tweaks on the script. I'll ask to the guy we hired what was done source wise and I'll get back here.
#13
Here is our rundown of what we found in order to run TGB game on Windows 98. The first problem is that it simply doesn't start on 98. The error I reported in this thread and by looking at the console.log indicates a Unicode problem.
No changes to the source code are needed to solve this, but you'll need to recompile the project following this indications:
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Torque/Code/MSLU
After you do it, it probably won't run. But that's not only TGB's fault now. It's the old Microsft vs OpenGL getting on your nerves. Just swap the default preferences to use D3D instead of OpenGL. I didn't search this in the default project so I don't know where to find it, but look for $pref::Video and you'll find it.
Change the options to this:
And that's it! It's running. We didn't test with DirectX7, but our reqs are DX8, and it works fine with it.
Now we do have a problem with OpenAL. We are looking to change it for another library. Unfortunatelly that means that it won't be useful for other users, unless GG makes it official.
Another major thing about the casual gamespace is to have a callback when the game loses focus. We implemented that too. It's not only common, but it's a minor feature that has a major relevance if you consider when, where and by whom this games are played.
We will provide all the changes to GG when we are done with the OpenAL part. After that it's up to GG to consider this changes. With it we will send our revamped script base. I'm sure that both changes, EXE and script base allow a perfectly usable engine for the casual market. We are running smoothly on PIII machines, several OS, and so on.
Hope this helps GG and their customers. Unfortunatelly to fully tune TGB to be a #1 choice would mean a lot of tweaking in resource manager, datablock handling, texture handling and so on, so I'm not sure if it's interesting for us or GG to consider TGB as a sound engine for the future of casual development, but... we'll see.
01/03/2008 (12:24 pm)
Hi everyone, sorry about the delay.Here is our rundown of what we found in order to run TGB game on Windows 98. The first problem is that it simply doesn't start on 98. The error I reported in this thread and by looking at the console.log indicates a Unicode problem.
No changes to the source code are needed to solve this, but you'll need to recompile the project following this indications:
http://tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Torque/Code/MSLU
After you do it, it probably won't run. But that's not only TGB's fault now. It's the old Microsft vs OpenGL getting on your nerves. Just swap the default preferences to use D3D instead of OpenGL. I didn't search this in the default project so I don't know where to find it, but look for $pref::Video and you'll find it.
Change the options to this:
$pref::Video::displayDevice = "D3D"; $pref::Video::preferOpenGL = 0; $pref::Video::allowOpenGL = 1; $pref::Video::allowD3D = 1;
And that's it! It's running. We didn't test with DirectX7, but our reqs are DX8, and it works fine with it.
Now we do have a problem with OpenAL. We are looking to change it for another library. Unfortunatelly that means that it won't be useful for other users, unless GG makes it official.
Another major thing about the casual gamespace is to have a callback when the game loses focus. We implemented that too. It's not only common, but it's a minor feature that has a major relevance if you consider when, where and by whom this games are played.
We will provide all the changes to GG when we are done with the OpenAL part. After that it's up to GG to consider this changes. With it we will send our revamped script base. I'm sure that both changes, EXE and script base allow a perfectly usable engine for the casual market. We are running smoothly on PIII machines, several OS, and so on.
Hope this helps GG and their customers. Unfortunatelly to fully tune TGB to be a #1 choice would mean a lot of tweaking in resource manager, datablock handling, texture handling and so on, so I'm not sure if it's interesting for us or GG to consider TGB as a sound engine for the future of casual development, but... we'll see.
Torque 3D Owner Matthew Langley
Torque