Violent Video Games=Serious Public Safety Threat ??

#21

Quote:You say there's no evidence that games makes people violent. But there's no evidence that it doesn't either.

The truth is that people the people who think that games make people violent are idiots. Pure and simple. Idiots.

Ever gone hunting? First you kill an animal. Then you take a knife and stab the animal in the groin and tear the knife up to the neck. Then you reach your hands inside and rip the guts out. Then cut the animal into pieces. You wrap up the pieces of the dead animal and you put them in a freezer. Then you eat the dead animal a little at a time. You eat it. If you have children, you give some to the children. Sometimes you even leave some of the blood in the pieces that you eat, so, you are drinking blood.

Ok. Now. Tell me. What is more likely to lead to violence: playing a video game? or killing animals, ripping out their guts and cooking and eating them?

There's proof that killing and eating animals leads to killing and even sometimes eating people.

There's no proof that playing video games have even lead to violence of at any level.

The idea that video games lead to violence... you gotta be really stupid to think this.

Look at the presidential candidate Mike Huckabee. He's a hunter. He says everyone should have a gun so they can protect themselves from the government(it's on video readily available and in context). His 10 1/2 year old son was kicked out of the boy scouts for torturing and killing(slitting it's throat) a lost puppy that he found.

Yeah. I'm going to guess that the kid didn't slit a puppies throat because he played a video game.

#22 Take all the guns out of games. That'll fix it.

Knifes too and fists.

All models can have legs only..

Wait.. no kicking.. No legs sorry.

#23 All hail Tyler. New God.

Having quickly De-Throned me with a single question.

#24 I blame pac man. He could of eaten the strawberry but he took out the ghost instead.

It all started that cold day...

#25 My congrats to everyone who is involved in yet another hyperextensive dispute over the ignorance of mankind brought on solely by, you guessed it, the ignorance of mankind. Crossing the line is solely the responsibility of the person who does so, they make the decision to cross that line, nobody else.

What line is that, though? Well, we all agreed that an animated mouse has a birthday event. We've all appreciated the death penalty at one point or another, weither it was a pest or a murderer. And we've all had our shares of imaginative thoughts, dreams, scientific thoughts, and mixes of all three yet we, as the ignorant people we are, still debate issues based on this same blissful ignorance that allows us to blame something or other outside our own free will. The only time that free will is not to blame is when we either allow anothers free will (called inaction or irresponsibility) to be overruled or we ourselves overrule anothers free will with our own.

So, the guy who was beheaded on that terrorist video, if he had instead fought for his life and beheaded his oppressors, would we then love him or consider him a murderer? Same with those on the planes which went down which is so infamous. Or, if in fact they had fought back, fighting for their free will, would we not welcome them with such open arms as those highschool students who went on a suicide killing spree against their oppressors? Who are the real victims anyways - those who are being oppressed or those who are responding to their oppression? As usual, you will decide for yourself, based on how you feel about what happened and what felt right or wrong about the situation - the truth lying solely based on what you decide. And you will be right, as right as those who gave their own biased opinion of violent influence from whatever excuse.

We all don't fly around naked because of Michelangelo's work on the Chapel, do we?
Think about it...for yourself!
~ Ronixus

#26 Wow. This thread went from somewhat humorus to downright depressing in a single post.

#27 Games dont kill people, people kill people

#28 Games don't kill people. People playing games kill people.

Wait. Um...

#29 I find it disturbing that noone has stood up for the rights of the countless NPC's that get slaughtered daily by people who play video games ;)

#30 Hi Folks,

I'd like to throw in my two cents worth...


My opinion, because I haven't conducted any sound scientific research, is that violence in video games does affect humanity in a negative way.

I do not necessarily believe that everyone playing violent games or watching violent movies will go and live out these experiences, except maybe for the more mentally unbalanced individuals out there. However, what I believe these violent multimedia experiences can do is to desensitize people to violence and aggression, and condition people to allow or accept violence to occur.

It is scientifically proven that the brain doesn't distinguish the difference between real experience and visualization - for example, when athletes visualize their performance vs actually performing. It's a proven technique that is used in many different fields.

However, each of us has a different level of consciousness and values which may override any impulse to go and start shooting people.

The negative side effect of this is that as a society, we tolerate more and more violence, especially as a solution to the world's problems. And that's good for people who make money from wars.

I personally don't like to play violent games and I miss the good old days when games were original. Nowadays, most games on the market are of the one-man-must-save-the-world-by-blowing-everything-up variety... At least the indie scene has been picking up and creating innovative games (or updating classics).

But don't get me wrong... I also believe strongly in freedom and understand that violence is a part of the human experience, some even enjoy, so it would be wrong to deny it.

Instead we need to 'manage' our violence better. If we had more violent sports, these could be a 'vent' for frustrated people. Spectators could watch violent sports, and only those who want to be violent can participate, and those who don't like it can be excluded.

Maybe there'd be less wars?

Anyway, it would be nice if there was at least a balance in the gaming world, let there be violent games, but let's get creative an make games that reinforce positive qualities in society. Also, why is it always about 'the americans' being the heroes in everything? when will we see a game where we can kill some American Terrorists? I mean, it's only fair, right? Or would that go against our current Brainwashing program?? Hmm?

As long as we accept killing one person for whatever reason, we will always find reasons to kill others.

Is it possible to have a game with an 'un-violent' hero overcome countless death-dealing enemies?

#31

Quote:Is it possible to have a game with an 'un-violent' hero overcome countless death-dealing enemies?

Yes, it's called John Smith writes letters. The hero John writes letters to enemies and bores them to death.

But seriously the things they never talk about in these so-called scientific studies is what the real problems are. For example: mental problems caused by doctors prescibing kids brain altering & anti-depressant drugs.

#32 @Aramel: I have to disagree with a few things you've stated in that post. I understand that you were not looking to say that videogames are the root of all evil, but you made a number of statements that aren't born out by the facts.

Quote:However, what I believe these violent multimedia experiences can do is to desensitize people to violence and aggression, and condition people to allow or accept violence to occur.

I think if you look at national crime trends and match that up with the rise of videogames, you'll see the national average rising and falling quite independently from the constantly rising population of videogame players. Also, you'll find that the majority of crime happens in low-income areas, where both the perpetrator and the victim are likely to be poor (and thus less likely to own a videogame console).

However, you might be correct if you stated that those perpetrators who owned videogames were likely to own violent ones, but that's a one-way corellation.

Quote:The negative side effect of this is that as a society, we tolerate more and more violence, especially as a solution to the world's problems. And that's good for people who make money from wars.

Again, if you look at trends over time, you'll see the exact opposite. Humanity as a whole is tolerating less and less violence, and not just to other people, but also to animals. There are more democracies at this time than in any other, and those democracies are placing pressure on non-democracies to reform, and many (maybe not most) are. Where in the world can you find sanctioned gladitorial combat these days? Slavery is actively being fought by numerous organizations and is becoming illegal in more countries. Human rights are on the rise. So, as a statement, that does not hold ground in face of historical data.

Quote:Instead we need to 'manage' our violence better. If we had more violent sports, these could be a 'vent' for frustrated people. Spectators could watch violent sports, and only those who want to be violent can participate, and those who don't like it can be excluded.

Maybe there'd be less wars?

I don't believe that this is possible, unless you lobotimize the entire human population to prevent violence- which would likely involve destroying a major portion of the spectrum of emotions that humans can experience.

Violent sports are not such a sufficient outlet for violence that it would prevent wars. Romans held gladitorial combat games that were wildly popular in all parts of its empire to the extent that citizens considered it a "right" to be provided those games, yet Rome conquered it's known world at the tip of the sword, and prided itself on genocide (1 million Gauls by Julius Caesar's hand). Parts of the world still see violent sports being watched as entertainment, but those are definitely not the areas you'd want to live in for the crime rate.

The point is that violence is not born out of rap/rock/metal, TV, videogames, or books. It comes from us. Your race, religion, sexual orientation, birthplace, gender, political affiliation- none of that matters as much as the simple fact that you are still part of the animal kingdom. And animals are violent. We have a better ability to control those impulses through the extra brain mass, but that's just it- it's all mental. The guys shooting up malls and schools today would have still killed people if there were no videogames around.

Violence is a means available to humans to attain an end, and when the human mind is able to find a rationale that is able to overcome societal morality and norms sufficiently, then violence is chosen as an option.

Quote:Also, why is it always about 'the americans' being the heroes in everything? when will we see a game where we can kill some American Terrorists? I mean, it's only fair, right? Or would that go against our current Brainwashing program?? Hmm?

I wouldn't mind taking a shot at some guys in pointy white hoods ;) But your statement about "our current Brainwashing program" is unfounded. Your disagreement with the majority of people on certain subjects does not diminish their own capacity to come to conclusions, however different they might be from yours.

But I will agree wholeheartedly that it would be nice to have more creative games out there that reduce or even eliminate violence as a solution, and focus on other peoples. And yes, it is not only possible, but a great idea, to have a game that has a McGuyver-type character that uses non-lethal tactics to stop lethal enemies.

But I would never go so far as to say that violent videogames increase violence in society or even influences it's acceptance in a meaningful way, unless the person had serious deficiencies in how they were raised.

#33 The Spartans did not have FFXI, but they certantly did know how Conquest worked.
Ninjas did not play Tenchu, but they knew how to attack and hide.
World Wars did not happen after some dude picked up Battlefeild 19something but they knew how war works.

Why? Because they were all trained. Some kid gets a gun and does something unruly then they blame it on a video game which they probably didn't have or cannot afford. It's easy to point the finger but not easy to take the blame for the lack of disipline or no attempts to raise their children.

We live in a day where parents send their children to daycare, to elementary school, to junior then high school and hopefully college and with no more than 100 hugs, kisses, and uplifting comments or know what their favorite color is. What happens with most of the time? It isn't spent with family and that time is at an all time low.

If anyone blames my mech game for their son or daughter using a toaster, fiddle sticks and a keyboard to fight some bully or stepfather, I will make sure that their parents get the verbal trashing they deserve.

#34 I feel bad for that red dragon I killed, the band of a 100 orcs I decapated, that horde of zombies I blew up with a neat spell, those people in the city, that army of evil too. Can't we just be freinds? I'm sure that vampire right there is real hug-able. You know if we just shoot flowers and candy at each other we'll be freinds?

Anyway, whats a zombie game like resident evil 4 where you can blow off the zombies head! Or blind them a kick the in the face? Or when those creepy chainsaw people dismember you? Do you people think it's that bad? I think you people should sit down and read a manga 'hellsing vol. 1' is highly recommended. It's one of the few that make you think "I don't think people have that much blood!"

I mean, if video games are so loosely connected to violenece, why not violence in books and manga and anime as well? If you got that far, go the whole nine yards, clear violence out of anything kids might watch? I mean, now that video games get bleached and clead up, whats next? [mainly because it's easyer to go after a nerd like me than the guy who sells guns, who happens to have a warehouse full of M-16s =D ]

I'll leave you with you with you're thoughts. (Oh, and I'm 14 ;) )

#35 I sit behind my pc.
Starting up Black&White to do some gardening.
Yes, gardening.
You can make your pet walk along a path repeatedly so a path is created.
With some stones placed in the village, I have my villegers worship it until they glow an aura.
I place every stone along the path and plant some trees along it. I pick out the newborn trees.
Place some odd stones in the right places... It's my 'zen' thing.


After a hard day at work, I load Hitman and see if I can manage to kill the target by running straight at him weapon already pulled. I did it ones. and then try to take out the rest.


World of Warcraft, I walk in contested area and now become killable by the oposing faction (players).
I notice a gnome warlock (player) killing monsters near a pond.
I'm behind a hill with a thick row of trees and send my pet to her warlock pet to fight it.
I call it back before it dies and wait.

After a few minutes I step out of the woods and emote a roar at the warlock.
You can say I was roleplaying a bit.
After slapping the warlock around I stop before killing it.


Violent games are played by gamers.
Violent games are not just for violent gamers.
Violent games are games where the actions are violent.

If I play a boring game like solitair, do I become boring?
Will I suddenly grow a fondness for collecting stamps and quiet weekends on my own?

Violent games can leave you 'hyped'.
But so do rollercoasters. Should we ban rollercoasters because people might act hyped up?


Violent people seek out violent things, not the other way around.

If woman wear dresses, not all people who wear a dress are women.
If violent people play violent games, not all people who play violent games are violent.

#36 Human beings are really interesting creatures. See, when they don't understand something they grasp for answers. Usually, the answers that are first looked at absolve self blame. Little Johnnie shoots up a school and the first thing anyone asks is why? Well, Little Johnnie's parent's have a really nice home in the suburbs and drive around in their matching BMW's. Mom is a great doctor at a local hospital and Dad works for a fortune 500 company. From many points of view Little Johnnie's life is perfect. So, why has Little Johnnie picked up a weapon and killed so many people? Since his life was so perfect, we have to assume it was an outsider. Something that was ugly, something that invaded this "perfect" scene. It had to be the music or the movies or the games that Little Johnnie was exposed to. This is of course wrong.

If you look deep, very deep you see the the true reason for Little Johnnie's actions. The quest for perfection. Yep, I'll bet you that Little Johnnie was a frustrated imperfect person. He probably felt like an outsider. Because Mom and Pop worked so hard to keep up with the idea of perfection they did not even notice that their child was feeling lost. Maybe if more attention was spent on Little Johnnie, instead of worrying about what the people next door were buying, things could have been different. Maybe if Little Johnnie realized that having the "right" cloths or listening to the "right" music in his school really never mattered in his school he would not have felt like an "outsider". The quest for the "ideal", the constant desire to "fit in", the presure to "achieve", these a re a few of the things that contributed to Little Johnnie's outburst. But heck! that requires some real deep introspection.....so it had to be that darn "vidia game"! If we get rid of those nasty things well then we can achieve a "perfect" society. And, as we all know being "perfect" is what it's all about.

#37 us.i1.yimg.com/videogames.yahoo.com/feature/gamer-uses-virtual-training-to-save-... <- Take that Jack Thompson! Hehe...

@Ron: Good summation as well...

#38 Its true.

basically anything you insert into your brain comes with a level of acceptance
as you desensitize yourself using this various input you in effect begin to accept whatever it is.

applying what you have learned is second nature.

its not just games that do this, everything does.

#39

Quote:Instead we need to 'manage' our violence better. If we had more violent sports, these could be a 'vent' for frustrated people. Spectators could watch violent sports, and only those who want to be violent can participate, and those who don't like it can be excluded.

I see. So instead of virtual violence, it would be a much better idea to integrate violence into a physical sport. That'll solve everything. XD

You basically just described Halo in that passage.

#40 I don't really think it's a matter of managing the "violence" in our lives as much as managing the situations that can lead to it. It's well known that kids who are taught critical thinking and conflict resolution skills are less likely to get into these kinds of situations, and that needs to be encouraged. Part of that is communication skills, as it's also been found that violent criminals are very likely to be poor communicators. If you're emotional and can't get your point across, you might just resort to violence. If you cannot manage a situation and it spins out of control, you might just resort to violence. If you cannot think far enough ahead into the future or think about immediate consequences, then you might just resort to violence.

Not just being an argument to wield at those who wish to take away the freedoms of various peoples in various states/countries, we should use this as an opportunity to address the problem in ways that politicians and the educational system is unable to: Make tools for people to learn those skills, and do it in a way that is fun and doesn't feel like it's being forced down their throats. I'm not saying to do away with violence in video games- I still need my CoD4 fix- but broaden the horizons in such a way as to show the media how games not only increase hand-eye coordination (which does not necessarily equate to actual rifle skills, I don't care what "expert" says it), but also brain-mouth coordination.

Just my 2 cents.