TGB 1.5 Gone Gold
by Eric Robinson · in Torque Game Builder · 07/11/2007 (7:56 pm) · 15 replies
I just checked my download links and found that version 1.5.0 is available next to 1.1.3.
No news yet through blogs or the What's New page.
Congratulations GG!
P.S.- Got a really long, super impressive changelog with all the new and fixed goodies?
No news yet through blogs or the What's New page.
Congratulations GG!
P.S.- Got a really long, super impressive changelog with all the new and fixed goodies?
#2
But someone forgot to add the behavior callback stuff from TDN into the documentation.
The whole behavior system is great but is massively lacks usefull documentation without connecting to TDN right now. Hopefully will be fixed with the next update :)
07/12/2007 (2:17 pm)
Yeah 1.5 went gold and I definitely like it :)But someone forgot to add the behavior callback stuff from TDN into the documentation.
The whole behavior system is great but is massively lacks usefull documentation without connecting to TDN right now. Hopefully will be fixed with the next update :)
#3
07/12/2007 (2:24 pm)
Hi Eric. If you go to the product page for TGB and scroll down, you can see the info about additions to TGB in 1.5, as well as a list of bug-fixes at the bottom.
#6
07/14/2007 (7:27 am)
Sadly no mention on the alt-tab / ctrl-alt-del issues with Vista and XP
#7
As I can guess, there will be no update for months, and I don't own the source code so I can't fix such issue.
So basically : I'm screwed :)
I wish I knew that the engine was more like "buy the source or die waiting bugfixes for basic features" than an actual game builder.
I'm really not a whiner usually, I really try hard to find workarounds for every issues, but I can't really do anything against a "New ! Crappy looking camera mounting for 1.5 !", that's awesome...
I was counting on the divine 1.5 with its ticked physics (which is already a correction of a big mistake).
Result : I can't release anything for months. Thanks GG.
07/14/2007 (12:24 pm)
No mention of the camera mounting issue that prevent me from using the 1.5 version at all (that's simple, right now you mount the camera (with any force) to anything that moves or can move at regular speed : it will looks like crap (not smooth, trembling)), it was working fine in 1.3 but not anymore... As I can guess, there will be no update for months, and I don't own the source code so I can't fix such issue.
So basically : I'm screwed :)
I wish I knew that the engine was more like "buy the source or die waiting bugfixes for basic features" than an actual game builder.
I'm really not a whiner usually, I really try hard to find workarounds for every issues, but I can't really do anything against a "New ! Crappy looking camera mounting for 1.5 !", that's awesome...
I was counting on the divine 1.5 with its ticked physics (which is already a correction of a big mistake).
Result : I can't release anything for months. Thanks GG.
#8
At first I was simply going to ignore your post, but decided to spend some time to answer your points in turn:
What's interesting is that you have never actually reported this bug, nor has anyone else until after 1.5 was released. If you don't tell us of bugs and issues you are having when working with a beta version, there is no guarantee that we will even know about the issue, much less fix it.
I actually looked at every single post you've made since you have had an account, and you have been active in the bug report forums, so why didn't you mention this issue you were having until after the beta period was over?
TGB has consistently had a faster point release period than any other game engine on the market, hands down. You may argue that this is due to various reasons, but we make every effort to address known issues in point releases, as well as add new features and capabilities, and release them in a very rapid manner compared to just about any other product in the market.
You may view it as a "mistake", but the 20+ commercially released projects that used TGB prior to having constant tick physics didnt' seem to have issues. The market asked for a different physics implementation, and after review of who was using TGB and to what ends, we determined that it would be a good alternate implementation, and provided it. Those that are using variable rate physics and are completely happy with them are actually having issues (due to the fundamentally different design and implementation requirements for a variable rate vs fixed rate tick system), yet they aren't complaining, and are instead working happily with the new system (and I might add asking questions on how to adapt instead of "whining" as you put it).
Had you made a bug report while participating in the beta, the specific issue you are having would have been addressed. Since you waited until after the product was out of beta, there isn't much we can do.
Additionally, there is already an update that addresses some critical issues with the 1.5 release. It will be available for download in the near future. To me, less than a week to address critical issues is much less than months, and had you mentioned the issue you are having earlier like I said above, the fix would have been in the original 1.5 release.
07/14/2007 (1:02 pm)
@Benjamin:At first I was simply going to ignore your post, but decided to spend some time to answer your points in turn:
Quote:
No mention of the camera mounting issue that prevent me from using the 1.5 version at all (that's simple, right now you mount the camera (with any force) to anything that moves or can move at regular speed : it will looks like crap (not smooth, trembling)), it was working fine in 1.3 but not anymore...
What's interesting is that you have never actually reported this bug, nor has anyone else until after 1.5 was released. If you don't tell us of bugs and issues you are having when working with a beta version, there is no guarantee that we will even know about the issue, much less fix it.
I actually looked at every single post you've made since you have had an account, and you have been active in the bug report forums, so why didn't you mention this issue you were having until after the beta period was over?
Quote:
I wish I knew that the engine was more like "buy the source or die waiting bugfixes for basic features" than an actual game builder.
TGB has consistently had a faster point release period than any other game engine on the market, hands down. You may argue that this is due to various reasons, but we make every effort to address known issues in point releases, as well as add new features and capabilities, and release them in a very rapid manner compared to just about any other product in the market.
Quote:
I was counting on the divine 1.5 with its ticked physics (which is already a correction of a big mistake).
You may view it as a "mistake", but the 20+ commercially released projects that used TGB prior to having constant tick physics didnt' seem to have issues. The market asked for a different physics implementation, and after review of who was using TGB and to what ends, we determined that it would be a good alternate implementation, and provided it. Those that are using variable rate physics and are completely happy with them are actually having issues (due to the fundamentally different design and implementation requirements for a variable rate vs fixed rate tick system), yet they aren't complaining, and are instead working happily with the new system (and I might add asking questions on how to adapt instead of "whining" as you put it).
Quote:
Result : I can't release anything for months.
Had you made a bug report while participating in the beta, the specific issue you are having would have been addressed. Since you waited until after the product was out of beta, there isn't much we can do.
Additionally, there is already an update that addresses some critical issues with the 1.5 release. It will be available for download in the near future. To me, less than a week to address critical issues is much less than months, and had you mentioned the issue you are having earlier like I said above, the fix would have been in the original 1.5 release.
#9
Sorry for being so rude, but I was too much stressed about this.
I'll try not to lose my temper if there's a next time.
About the issue, it is something that I found really hard to corner. Was it the camera ? My scripted camera object ? The new physics ? There were doubts. There was a topic about it. In it, I thought that getrenderposition was the solution, I am to blame for that first assumption : www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=60074
Once getrenderposition was here, the issue persisted... Finally the only thing I'm sure of, is that it was not my camera scripts, simply mounting it to a moving object is getting me the issue.
Now that I reread myself, my explanations weren't really clear... But I did posted about the issue I'm speaking about right now in the last post of the thread (I though the topic was known so I didn't updated the title, but it seems that I was assuming too much).
Plus, I was sure it was going to be addressed as I read somewhere that something about a camera mounting issue was in the work by GG ( here : www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=56095 ). But again, maybe I was assuming too much...
As I explain myself, I realize that I simply should do more proper bug reports... err...
And, about the other stupid things I said, they were mostly wrong as you pointed out.
I clicked on "submit post" really too quickly :x
edit : typos everywhere :x
07/14/2007 (2:33 pm)
@StephenSorry for being so rude, but I was too much stressed about this.
I'll try not to lose my temper if there's a next time.
About the issue, it is something that I found really hard to corner. Was it the camera ? My scripted camera object ? The new physics ? There were doubts. There was a topic about it. In it, I thought that getrenderposition was the solution, I am to blame for that first assumption : www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=60074
Once getrenderposition was here, the issue persisted... Finally the only thing I'm sure of, is that it was not my camera scripts, simply mounting it to a moving object is getting me the issue.
Now that I reread myself, my explanations weren't really clear... But I did posted about the issue I'm speaking about right now in the last post of the thread (I though the topic was known so I didn't updated the title, but it seems that I was assuming too much).
Plus, I was sure it was going to be addressed as I read somewhere that something about a camera mounting issue was in the work by GG ( here : www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=56095 ). But again, maybe I was assuming too much...
As I explain myself, I realize that I simply should do more proper bug reports... err...
And, about the other stupid things I said, they were mostly wrong as you pointed out.
I clicked on "submit post" really too quickly :x
edit : typos everywhere :x
#10
Whatever the case may be, what is(are) the proper/appropriate way(s) of letting GG know about bugs?
07/14/2007 (8:49 pm)
@Stephen:Quote:If you don't tell us of bugs and issues you are having when working with a beta versionThis is a little off topic but I'm curious about an official response. What's the proper way to file a bug report with GG? I've posted some bugs in the Report Bugs forum (some of which have been addressed) but have heard that there's a link which report bugs in some kind of bug tracking system.
Whatever the case may be, what is(are) the proper/appropriate way(s) of letting GG know about bugs?
#11
Here, there's a topic from Jeremy Jones that's seems to be almost the same issue :
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=64697
Hope you'll take a look at it Stephen.
07/15/2007 (7:47 am)
@StephenHere, there's a topic from Jeremy Jones that's seems to be almost the same issue :
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=64697
Hope you'll take a look at it Stephen.
#12
In general, when reporting a bug, the way to get it addressed in the most rapid and consistent manner is to include the following:
An accurate and complete description of what is going on. If we see "it's broken" or even "it doesn't work the way it used to", there is simply nothing there to work with, and it won't get developer attention.
A complete environment description: Include your OS, video environment (especially if it's a video/texture related issue), at least an indication of the relative machine age/power (better to just give us complete specs if you can), what version (exactly) you are using of the product, etc.
Background information on your workflow--what are you doing when the bug occurs? This helps us nail down differences between missing/outdated UI hooks vs underlying system errors, for example.
Reproduction case: There honestly is not much we can do unless we can reproduce the error on our machines. Sometimes it's possible for us to guess at a possible issue and describe a solution within a thread discussion, and sometimes it's possible to demonstrate that you (generic "you") are not using the workflow/tools as expected (which isn't anyone's fault, but can cause unusual conditions), but in general if we can't see (and troubleshoot) the error on our system, we can't do much about it--and that's where an accurate and detailed description of what causes the bug come in.
Back to your main issue (shaking cam). It's almost certainly a byproduct of moving from variable rate tick physics to fixed rate physics, and not having a good interpolation per frame of the camera. Now that we know about the issue we will take a look, but I can't guarantee a fix any time in the near future--it will depend on how fundamental the issue is, and how much resource time it will take to fix. It will be addressed, and it may come out as a solution here on the forums if there is a relatively easy one to implement, but I can't make any promises on a time frame.
07/15/2007 (8:30 am)
In general, the "Report Bugs" forum is the best place, but I admit it's not a great way to manage bugs due to the way that forum ultimately gets used--it can be very difficult to isolate and track the true "bugs" from the user misunderstanding/user error issues that get described there.In general, when reporting a bug, the way to get it addressed in the most rapid and consistent manner is to include the following:
An accurate and complete description of what is going on. If we see "it's broken" or even "it doesn't work the way it used to", there is simply nothing there to work with, and it won't get developer attention.
A complete environment description: Include your OS, video environment (especially if it's a video/texture related issue), at least an indication of the relative machine age/power (better to just give us complete specs if you can), what version (exactly) you are using of the product, etc.
Background information on your workflow--what are you doing when the bug occurs? This helps us nail down differences between missing/outdated UI hooks vs underlying system errors, for example.
Reproduction case: There honestly is not much we can do unless we can reproduce the error on our machines. Sometimes it's possible for us to guess at a possible issue and describe a solution within a thread discussion, and sometimes it's possible to demonstrate that you (generic "you") are not using the workflow/tools as expected (which isn't anyone's fault, but can cause unusual conditions), but in general if we can't see (and troubleshoot) the error on our system, we can't do much about it--and that's where an accurate and detailed description of what causes the bug come in.
Back to your main issue (shaking cam). It's almost certainly a byproduct of moving from variable rate tick physics to fixed rate physics, and not having a good interpolation per frame of the camera. Now that we know about the issue we will take a look, but I can't guarantee a fix any time in the near future--it will depend on how fundamental the issue is, and how much resource time it will take to fix. It will be addressed, and it may come out as a solution here on the forums if there is a relatively easy one to implement, but I can't make any promises on a time frame.
#13
Regarding the reporting of bugs, I just want to chime in here and say that one of the things I am trying to do as the head of QA here is to always look for ways to improve the process of making our software better.
One of the things I will be working on to help with that is carefully going through the forums often and adding any valid bugs I find in there to our internal bug tracking database.
The developers already do this, but they are extremely busy folks, and it's entirely possible that they may see one and file it mentally but not have the time to put it in the bug tracker.
We appreciate you filing bugs and i assure you that they do get looked at.
07/15/2007 (9:10 am)
Hey guys.Regarding the reporting of bugs, I just want to chime in here and say that one of the things I am trying to do as the head of QA here is to always look for ways to improve the process of making our software better.
One of the things I will be working on to help with that is carefully going through the forums often and adding any valid bugs I find in there to our internal bug tracking database.
The developers already do this, but they are extremely busy folks, and it's entirely possible that they may see one and file it mentally but not have the time to put it in the bug tracker.
We appreciate you filing bugs and i assure you that they do get looked at.
#14
Happen to have a list? I was all excited about 1.5 & then the particles didn't save in the final release & I screamed "Nooooooo!". :) If the particle saving thing isn't fixed yet then I'll need to re-install 1.1.3 (haven't been able to get both installed at the same time. just doesn't seem to want to work). I've got both install files so no biggie really, i just loved maximizing my screen. :)
I do have to compliment you guys on your releases though: you seem to fix things as they come up. I remember with Sonic Foundry/Sony Vegas 5 they "accidentally" forgot a product-life long feature for saving pan/crop presets & didn't bother to replace it until the NEXT retail release. Boy did that anger some people (including me: didn't bother upgrading until version 6 because of it).
EDIT: You can also submit bug reports in the Contact Us section too. But I'd say keep it in the forums so others know about it too & are able to help solve it.
07/15/2007 (7:02 pm)
Quote:Additionally, there is already an update that addresses some critical issues with the 1.5 release. It will be available for download in the near future
Happen to have a list? I was all excited about 1.5 & then the particles didn't save in the final release & I screamed "Nooooooo!". :) If the particle saving thing isn't fixed yet then I'll need to re-install 1.1.3 (haven't been able to get both installed at the same time. just doesn't seem to want to work). I've got both install files so no biggie really, i just loved maximizing my screen. :)
I do have to compliment you guys on your releases though: you seem to fix things as they come up. I remember with Sonic Foundry/Sony Vegas 5 they "accidentally" forgot a product-life long feature for saving pan/crop presets & didn't bother to replace it until the NEXT retail release. Boy did that anger some people (including me: didn't bother upgrading until version 6 because of it).
EDIT: You can also submit bug reports in the Contact Us section too. But I'd say keep it in the forums so others know about it too & are able to help solve it.
#15
unfortunately i am too deep in 1.1.3 and too close to release to be able to touch 1.5 at the moment. Too worried I might find something wrong, and I havent been able to have the time to test 1.5 while i work on my game in 1.1.3
07/19/2007 (8:42 am)
Congrats on 1.5!!unfortunately i am too deep in 1.1.3 and too close to release to be able to touch 1.5 at the moment. Too worried I might find something wrong, and I havent been able to have the time to test 1.5 while i work on my game in 1.1.3
Torque Owner Jemand den es nicht gibt