Looking for a "Start At Zero" style Tutorial
by Quest Johnny · in Torque Game Engine · 05/14/2007 (11:54 am) · 16 replies
I'm looking for a tutorial to help me with learning Torque (3D.)
I've done searches for Tutorials and found the ones that describe how to use the tools, and I have the "All in One" books and the "Game Programming in Torque" (LPLG?) and I recently found the MinApp #1 - #4 which go into detail on how the GUI aspects work, but none are quite what I'm looking for. They all seem to start from the outside in, and what I'd like is something in the style of the MinApp tutorials, but which goes into the engine not just the GUI.
I've been programming since I was 12, and I've been making little games since I had a TRS-80 in BASIC and then in Pascal in CGA on my IBM PC, and later making games in Flash. I have also made a mod for Freedom Force, so I'm familiar with modding. I have an Msc, I'm familiar with C, C++, Java and PHP and various other languages.
I have trouble when I'm approaching a huge ball from the outside-in and having hundreds of lines of code that I don't understand and sort of "modding" the game to trick it into doing what I want, as in a mod, and most of the Torque books and tutorials seem to approach it from a modding standpoint.
When I made games, i.e., most recently Flash games, I began by making a game-loop (a ProcessTick), this loop had functions to calculate everything that needed to be recalculated each second, and then it called Render() which had in it Render() functions for each type of object to display them. When I had bugs, or problems, I could always find where, and why, becuase I knew exactly where the game was and what it was doing at every moment. I knew the flow of logic. With Torque, I know that there is a SceneGraph, and projectiles, and SOMEWHERE in there is a processtick but it's all a black ball and I have no real idea what the flow of logic is or how I can find out.
Is there possibly out there a Torque3D tutorial that approaches it, well, much the same way the Torque2D tutorial does? That begins with an executable that has no script and does nothing, then, you add your player and he is in a black space (as the ShowTool.) Then, you add a terrain, and you have a player on a terrain, then you add a skybox, and you have a skybox, terrain and player, and so on and so on. Where the only content is the content you yourself add in, building up from nothing, so that one could really understand how it works in its core?
I've done searches for Tutorials and found the ones that describe how to use the tools, and I have the "All in One" books and the "Game Programming in Torque" (LPLG?) and I recently found the MinApp #1 - #4 which go into detail on how the GUI aspects work, but none are quite what I'm looking for. They all seem to start from the outside in, and what I'd like is something in the style of the MinApp tutorials, but which goes into the engine not just the GUI.
I've been programming since I was 12, and I've been making little games since I had a TRS-80 in BASIC and then in Pascal in CGA on my IBM PC, and later making games in Flash. I have also made a mod for Freedom Force, so I'm familiar with modding. I have an Msc, I'm familiar with C, C++, Java and PHP and various other languages.
I have trouble when I'm approaching a huge ball from the outside-in and having hundreds of lines of code that I don't understand and sort of "modding" the game to trick it into doing what I want, as in a mod, and most of the Torque books and tutorials seem to approach it from a modding standpoint.
When I made games, i.e., most recently Flash games, I began by making a game-loop (a ProcessTick), this loop had functions to calculate everything that needed to be recalculated each second, and then it called Render() which had in it Render() functions for each type of object to display them. When I had bugs, or problems, I could always find where, and why, becuase I knew exactly where the game was and what it was doing at every moment. I knew the flow of logic. With Torque, I know that there is a SceneGraph, and projectiles, and SOMEWHERE in there is a processtick but it's all a black ball and I have no real idea what the flow of logic is or how I can find out.
Is there possibly out there a Torque3D tutorial that approaches it, well, much the same way the Torque2D tutorial does? That begins with an executable that has no script and does nothing, then, you add your player and he is in a black space (as the ShowTool.) Then, you add a terrain, and you have a player on a terrain, then you add a skybox, and you have a skybox, terrain and player, and so on and so on. Where the only content is the content you yourself add in, building up from nothing, so that one could really understand how it works in its core?
About the author
#2
05/18/2007 (2:20 pm)
No, those both begin with a game and mod backwards. I'm looking for a tutorial that starts at nothing (as I say above) more in the style of Torque2D
#3
ive started one myself, have it load a splash screen... but thats about it right now :)
05/18/2007 (10:51 pm)
I havent seen anything like that really... there is something like miniApp that does it a bit though (i think)ive started one myself, have it load a splash screen... but thats about it right now :)
#4
tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Category:Getting_Started/FAQ/tutorials
05/18/2007 (11:02 pm)
Here you go:tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Category:Getting_Started/FAQ/tutorials
#5
Excellent link. I hadn't noticed that one before. Thanks for posting it.
05/19/2007 (5:16 am)
Mathieu,Excellent link. I hadn't noticed that one before. Thanks for posting it.
#6
At the bottom it mentions a "next tutorial" but there is no link and I can't find another - is this something still to come?
There sure seems to be a WEALTH of information here.. thanks for showing me the way =) Lots to pore over now!
What are the regs for submitting to the WIKI? I don't wish to get flamed again, and I run a few WIKIs including at my software company so I want to be sure
05/19/2007 (7:44 am)
Ahh..! Now THIS looks like what I was hoping for.At the bottom it mentions a "next tutorial" but there is no link and I can't find another - is this something still to come?
There sure seems to be a WEALTH of information here.. thanks for showing me the way =) Lots to pore over now!
What are the regs for submitting to the WIKI? I don't wish to get flamed again, and I run a few WIKIs including at my software company so I want to be sure
#7
Andrew I'm confused though as how this tutorial is different from the 3d Game Programming All in One(Which tells you exactly what is in the Common folder from the ground up).
05/24/2007 (2:14 pm)
Yeah I started following this tutorial, it's a good start. I really wish it were finished.Andrew I'm confused though as how this tutorial is different from the 3d Game Programming All in One(Which tells you exactly what is in the Common folder from the ground up).
#8
I tried using the above link tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Category:Getting_Started/FAQ/tutorials, but it talks about a tutorial.base folder that has many of the needed files (e.g. flat.mis). How do you get these files?
05/27/2007 (4:49 am)
Is there something similar for TGEA? It does not come with any tutorials. It also has no Getting Started.pdf.I tried using the above link tdn.garagegames.com/wiki/Category:Getting_Started/FAQ/tutorials, but it talks about a tutorial.base folder that has many of the needed files (e.g. flat.mis). How do you get these files?
#9
Perhaps the WIKI is just like AI1, but it does seem different. I will reply more when I know what I am talking about.
05/27/2007 (8:07 am)
@MrTroy: I haven't started on the WIKI one yet, but the All In One and all other sources I found basically start you at Kork and "mod" what is there, whereas I would prefer where you begin with nothing, and add pieces on, understand each and building your understanding. Perhaps the WIKI is just like AI1, but it does seem different. I will reply more when I know what I am talking about.
#10
I converted some of the "start at nothing" tutorials for TGE to TGEA if you'd like to look at them. They only take you as far as getting a basic GUI up and adding the GUI editor support, but it's a start. The URL is www.ExodusProject.com/torquewiki. Not sure if that will do you any good, but maybe it will at least get you started!
Regards,
Kilo
05/27/2007 (1:32 pm)
Edmund and others - I converted some of the "start at nothing" tutorials for TGE to TGEA if you'd like to look at them. They only take you as far as getting a basic GUI up and adding the GUI editor support, but it's a start. The URL is www.ExodusProject.com/torquewiki. Not sure if that will do you any good, but maybe it will at least get you started!
Regards,
Kilo
#11
Many of the TGE tutorials might work with TGEA, but the software does not come with anything except for the engine and two demos. It appears that TGE has a more complete package. Maybe there is some way to download those other pieces.
I do appreciate everyone's attempts to add to the knowledge base.
05/27/2007 (2:23 pm)
The GUI tutorial for TGE seems to work exactly the same for TGEA. The trouble seems to be getting terrains (especially Atlas) in and setting up the basic structure. The trouble I have had with some of the other mod tutorials is when there is an error. There is no way to know what you did wrong or if there is something missing.Many of the TGE tutorials might work with TGEA, but the software does not come with anything except for the engine and two demos. It appears that TGE has a more complete package. Maybe there is some way to download those other pieces.
I do appreciate everyone's attempts to add to the knowledge base.
#12
K
Part 2: www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=12846
Part 3: www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=12943
05/27/2007 (4:09 pm)
I think the link you guys are pointing to is the first part of Michael Perry's tutorials. Links for the second and third parts are below. The fourth part according to the author is supposed to be out soon.K
Part 2: www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=12846
Part 3: www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=12943
#13
05/28/2007 (5:35 am)
That's very cool - and the basic GUI tutorials will be great when one does GUI. Have you done anything comparable for the core part of the game (3D?)
#14
05/28/2007 (9:33 am)
Kilo, thanks for the link "www.ExodusProject.com/torquewiki." I agree with you that you should be able to start with TGEA. Thanks for making it happen for those of us who are starting torque at the TGEA level.
#15
05/29/2007 (6:45 am)
Maybe we should port a lot of those tutorials onto the WIKI so that as we figure them out ourselves we can make the changes for those who come after us
#16
Not sure if your question was directed to me, but I have been working on more tutorials with the engine itself. I'm a writer, so I'm giving serious thought to pitching a book on TGEA to Garage Games. As you can imagine, the engine code is much more involved to write tutorials for. I'm thinking there is a need for a book on TGEA now that the engine is starting to settle down a little.
I also am a strong believer in "rolling your own" -- you shouldn't add code that you don't fully understand every part of what it's doing. The "problem" (it's not really a problem, it's just not the approach I prefer) with Torque is that historically all the books and tutorials start with the sample games and then mod it. That's great until you start trying add things or to do things like separate out the client and server code in such a way that there is no unused code in either application. Try it, it's not as easy as you might think. If you have built up your code from scratch, however, you'll know everything that is in your code and you won't have legacy code sitting around taking up space.
I sometimes suspect that no one really knows exactly which paths are hard-coded in Torque and which aren't... :-)
Regards,
Kilo
05/29/2007 (11:18 am)
Andrew - Not sure if your question was directed to me, but I have been working on more tutorials with the engine itself. I'm a writer, so I'm giving serious thought to pitching a book on TGEA to Garage Games. As you can imagine, the engine code is much more involved to write tutorials for. I'm thinking there is a need for a book on TGEA now that the engine is starting to settle down a little.
I also am a strong believer in "rolling your own" -- you shouldn't add code that you don't fully understand every part of what it's doing. The "problem" (it's not really a problem, it's just not the approach I prefer) with Torque is that historically all the books and tutorials start with the sample games and then mod it. That's great until you start trying add things or to do things like separate out the client and server code in such a way that there is no unused code in either application. Try it, it's not as easy as you might think. If you have built up your code from scratch, however, you'll know everything that is in your code and you won't have legacy code sitting around taking up space.
I sometimes suspect that no one really knows exactly which paths are hard-coded in Torque and which aren't... :-)
Regards,
Kilo
Torque Owner Jason Lee