A few features and some possible bugs
by James Pulliam · in Constructor · 04/15/2007 (9:51 pm) · 13 replies
Ok been doing a little more on this here editor. thought i would share some of the things i seen that could use improvement on.
first off, i noticed when i created a block and hollowed it out. once i removed one of the wall so i could enter. the inside wall of the other wall was missing the texture. i could see right through it like it wasn't there, and also walk through it. but ofcourse once on outside, i couldn't pass back through he brush.
granted i got around this by making each wall manually. but that alot of extra steps it is.
which got me thinking about items that would make things easier.
in perspective mode. i think it would be nice to have a way to move camera up and down by keyboard hotkeys. i seen that by holding down middle mouse button ya can drag the view side to side and back and forth. but there was a few times i would be in place and just needed to go up. but this wasn't so easy to accomplish.
also. not too sure how to explain this one so bare with me.
it would be nice to have some sort of object that would repersent the camera view that would show up in the top bottom left and right views. have the object repersent the location of camera and angle in perspective view. this would help one keep track of where they are looking at and where they want to build.
it would also be nice to have keyboard hotkeys that would move selected brushes bit by bit. dragging the brush to meet flush with another brush can be complicated.be nice to be able to drag the brush close to the joining brush with the mouse and then tap it into place with a keyboard hotkey.
and finally this is just a thought, but it would be nice if when assigning textures to a brush. you didn't have to export the textures with the dif. instead maybe have it to where it would assign the location of the texture assigned to the brush. alot of the textures that will be used on interiors will often be common textures and used on more then on interior. granted one could just place all the textures and interiors into one folder. but that seems to me like it would get messy. the terrian textures aren't kept in same folder as the mission file. i think the textures for the dif's should be handled in same fassion.
over all i think the constructor is a very nice tool. and by no means am i knocking it. i am sure there will be things added to it as time goes by. just thought i would give some fruit for thought.
keep up the good work.
oh and yeah, would be nice if the transparencies would work without having to mod the engine,
and would like it if mirrors and reflections would work with updated exporter for 1.5.1
first off, i noticed when i created a block and hollowed it out. once i removed one of the wall so i could enter. the inside wall of the other wall was missing the texture. i could see right through it like it wasn't there, and also walk through it. but ofcourse once on outside, i couldn't pass back through he brush.
granted i got around this by making each wall manually. but that alot of extra steps it is.
which got me thinking about items that would make things easier.
in perspective mode. i think it would be nice to have a way to move camera up and down by keyboard hotkeys. i seen that by holding down middle mouse button ya can drag the view side to side and back and forth. but there was a few times i would be in place and just needed to go up. but this wasn't so easy to accomplish.
also. not too sure how to explain this one so bare with me.
it would be nice to have some sort of object that would repersent the camera view that would show up in the top bottom left and right views. have the object repersent the location of camera and angle in perspective view. this would help one keep track of where they are looking at and where they want to build.
it would also be nice to have keyboard hotkeys that would move selected brushes bit by bit. dragging the brush to meet flush with another brush can be complicated.be nice to be able to drag the brush close to the joining brush with the mouse and then tap it into place with a keyboard hotkey.
and finally this is just a thought, but it would be nice if when assigning textures to a brush. you didn't have to export the textures with the dif. instead maybe have it to where it would assign the location of the texture assigned to the brush. alot of the textures that will be used on interiors will often be common textures and used on more then on interior. granted one could just place all the textures and interiors into one folder. but that seems to me like it would get messy. the terrian textures aren't kept in same folder as the mission file. i think the textures for the dif's should be handled in same fassion.
over all i think the constructor is a very nice tool. and by no means am i knocking it. i am sure there will be things added to it as time goes by. just thought i would give some fruit for thought.
keep up the good work.
oh and yeah, would be nice if the transparencies would work without having to mod the engine,
and would like it if mirrors and reflections would work with updated exporter for 1.5.1
#2
i do know how one can use the w,a,s,d buttons in prospect mode. i keep it in free cam, for i think it easier to manover in. targer mode i feel really makes it hard to move around in. what i meant by having a up and down movement. was in without having to aim the camera up and hit the forward key. it would be nice to have a button that one could press that would move the camera view upwards or downwards while not changing the camera angle. this would also be nice to have in the world editor of the game engine itself.
i see what you are saying about the textures. and that a idea. however it would be nice if one could keep their textures in seperate folders. i have well over 500 textures and i am sure many have even more. it would be nice to be able to keep the organized by placing them in seperate folders with textures that are common to their type. such as: bricks, walls, tiles, floors, and so on.what you are saying is throw them all together in one folder, this would keep it from dupping the commonly used textures. but it wouldn't help in organization of textures. but it may be the path i will take to prevent the dupping of common textures.
i still like the idea of having a object in the different views that would repersent the camera one is looking at object with in prospective mode. i really think that would help with location reference.
04/17/2007 (12:02 pm)
It not really the wall that is missing more a face of the wall that is missing and it is in the engine. i made a block and hollowed it, then deleted one brush so i could enter the block. once in game engine i noticed the opposing side of the block was like there was no brush there. i could just look through it. and i could also walk through it. but once i was through it i turned around and the brush was back, and i could not walk through it. so the inside face of the brush is missing. i noticed this happening alot when using the subtract tool as well. one or more faces of the brush i subtracted in would be missing a face brush where the cut took place.i do know how one can use the w,a,s,d buttons in prospect mode. i keep it in free cam, for i think it easier to manover in. targer mode i feel really makes it hard to move around in. what i meant by having a up and down movement. was in without having to aim the camera up and hit the forward key. it would be nice to have a button that one could press that would move the camera view upwards or downwards while not changing the camera angle. this would also be nice to have in the world editor of the game engine itself.
i see what you are saying about the textures. and that a idea. however it would be nice if one could keep their textures in seperate folders. i have well over 500 textures and i am sure many have even more. it would be nice to be able to keep the organized by placing them in seperate folders with textures that are common to their type. such as: bricks, walls, tiles, floors, and so on.what you are saying is throw them all together in one folder, this would keep it from dupping the commonly used textures. but it wouldn't help in organization of textures. but it may be the path i will take to prevent the dupping of common textures.
i still like the idea of having a object in the different views that would repersent the camera one is looking at object with in prospective mode. i really think that would help with location reference.
#3
The problem with having a "camera" object in the 2D views is that you can easily have more than one 3D view with their cameras in different locations and it would get very confusing very fast to keep track of which one belongs to which view and which one to edit in the 2D views.
We had to bow to how Torque references textures (same directory or in a higher directory). Perhaps some day that could be addressed by expanding on the DIF format but currently there isn't a way to store sub-directories or other relative directories in the DIF file itself. One thing we learned with Constructor is how difficult it can be to resolve a texture in an arbitrary sub-directory (when I load "foo/bar.jpg" should it point to C:\TGE\example\mygame\foo\bar.jpg or should it point to C:\TGE\example\mygame\bricks\foo\bar.jpg?). What makes logical sense to you will be completely illogical to another artist.
I've seen map2dif_plus create "missing walls" but you should never see that in Constructor unless it is already missing the wall when you go to "Export As DIF..." (you can even double-check in the Export Preview). Can you send me a sample CSX file that loses a wall when exported in that way?
04/17/2007 (3:54 pm)
If you hold down the middle mouse button you can pan up and down pretty easily.The problem with having a "camera" object in the 2D views is that you can easily have more than one 3D view with their cameras in different locations and it would get very confusing very fast to keep track of which one belongs to which view and which one to edit in the 2D views.
We had to bow to how Torque references textures (same directory or in a higher directory). Perhaps some day that could be addressed by expanding on the DIF format but currently there isn't a way to store sub-directories or other relative directories in the DIF file itself. One thing we learned with Constructor is how difficult it can be to resolve a texture in an arbitrary sub-directory (when I load "foo/bar.jpg" should it point to C:\TGE\example\mygame\foo\bar.jpg or should it point to C:\TGE\example\mygame\bricks\foo\bar.jpg?). What makes logical sense to you will be completely illogical to another artist.
I've seen map2dif_plus create "missing walls" but you should never see that in Constructor unless it is already missing the wall when you go to "Export As DIF..." (you can even double-check in the Export Preview). Can you send me a sample CSX file that loses a wall when exported in that way?
#4
as far s object to repersent the camera view. maybe ya missunderstood what i was saying which is easy to do for i am not too sure how to explain it on here. i wasn't saying make a camera object in each view to repersent the camera in each view. i was trying to say place a camera that would repersent the view that you see in the perspective view. so if ya was looking at interior on the left side. in the front top and right views or which ever ones ya are looking at. you would see a object in those views that would be the location of camera that is giving you the image of the perspective view. so you would have more then one object being camera. just one object. well one in each view, they all would repersent the camera that is generating the view you see in perspective view. like i said it kind of hard to explain i hope ya get what i am trying to say.
as far as the missing brush. ok i made a simple box. hollowed it out. exported as dif. the walls and everything is in the perspective view before export. but once i exported it and placed it in my game enigine which is 1.5.1 there are a few faces of the brushes missing.the inside of the top brush and inside of lower brush is missing. so is the front side of the lower brush. as i stated it isn't the full brush that is missing just the face of the brushes. you can see through and go through one way but not the other.i can send you the dif and csx if you want. just tell me where to send it.
i would provide you with a link, but i let my web site go recently. so i will need to e-mail it to you or sumthing.
and also btw,i dunno if i am missing a step that is causing this or not. but when i go to face mode. and select a face of a brush. it like a ghost image of the texture comes up off to the side of the selected brush. it doesn't render or anything and not seen in brush mode just in face mode, maybe ya can tell me why i am getting this as well.
i can see what you are saying about the textures seeing how what you are dealing with is a product that people will use to build their own games, and there fore people will make up their own way of file structure and directories in their game folders. so i can see where you are coming from on that aspect.
and one final note, when using mirrors and reflextion on textures i was told that i needed to use the map2Dif_plus export. for it wasn't working in the export as dif. however when i export map2dif_plus alot of the brushes are blackened in that don't have the reflextion of mirror effect placed to it.
i tried to make a decent sized floor and placed the mirror effect to it, set it to 5 i beleive it is to where it is barely visible. exported map2dif_plus and when placing it in game. almost the entire interior was blackened. and there was no reflectivness to floor brush. the textures come up when exporting as dif. but still no reflection.
i am still in my testing stages to see what i can and can't do in the constructor. my intention with the reflective effect is to place it on windows so they appear more like a glass window would. with having a slight reflection to them. so just curious if the blackening in is going to be addressed in future releases.
anyhows not meaning to ramble i will leave it at that let me know where to send the dif and csx file to so you can see what i am saying about missing faces.
i do like the constuctor i think you all did a great job with it. i been waiting a while now for it's release, and very happy to see it here and that it was indeed well worth the wait.
04/18/2007 (1:08 am)
Ok your right with the camrea view when holding middle mouse button it does go up and down. which is a big plus. i just relized the other day i was on target mode and switch to free cam view. and guess i didn't check the middle mouse button after i made the switch.as far s object to repersent the camera view. maybe ya missunderstood what i was saying which is easy to do for i am not too sure how to explain it on here. i wasn't saying make a camera object in each view to repersent the camera in each view. i was trying to say place a camera that would repersent the view that you see in the perspective view. so if ya was looking at interior on the left side. in the front top and right views or which ever ones ya are looking at. you would see a object in those views that would be the location of camera that is giving you the image of the perspective view. so you would have more then one object being camera. just one object. well one in each view, they all would repersent the camera that is generating the view you see in perspective view. like i said it kind of hard to explain i hope ya get what i am trying to say.
as far as the missing brush. ok i made a simple box. hollowed it out. exported as dif. the walls and everything is in the perspective view before export. but once i exported it and placed it in my game enigine which is 1.5.1 there are a few faces of the brushes missing.the inside of the top brush and inside of lower brush is missing. so is the front side of the lower brush. as i stated it isn't the full brush that is missing just the face of the brushes. you can see through and go through one way but not the other.i can send you the dif and csx if you want. just tell me where to send it.
i would provide you with a link, but i let my web site go recently. so i will need to e-mail it to you or sumthing.
and also btw,i dunno if i am missing a step that is causing this or not. but when i go to face mode. and select a face of a brush. it like a ghost image of the texture comes up off to the side of the selected brush. it doesn't render or anything and not seen in brush mode just in face mode, maybe ya can tell me why i am getting this as well.
i can see what you are saying about the textures seeing how what you are dealing with is a product that people will use to build their own games, and there fore people will make up their own way of file structure and directories in their game folders. so i can see where you are coming from on that aspect.
and one final note, when using mirrors and reflextion on textures i was told that i needed to use the map2Dif_plus export. for it wasn't working in the export as dif. however when i export map2dif_plus alot of the brushes are blackened in that don't have the reflextion of mirror effect placed to it.
i tried to make a decent sized floor and placed the mirror effect to it, set it to 5 i beleive it is to where it is barely visible. exported map2dif_plus and when placing it in game. almost the entire interior was blackened. and there was no reflectivness to floor brush. the textures come up when exporting as dif. but still no reflection.
i am still in my testing stages to see what i can and can't do in the constructor. my intention with the reflective effect is to place it on windows so they appear more like a glass window would. with having a slight reflection to them. so just curious if the blackening in is going to be addressed in future releases.
anyhows not meaning to ramble i will leave it at that let me know where to send the dif and csx file to so you can see what i am saying about missing faces.
i do like the constuctor i think you all did a great job with it. i been waiting a while now for it's release, and very happy to see it here and that it was indeed well worth the wait.
#5
My point is that you can have more than one view in Perspective mode, all with a different camera position. You can have an unlimited amount of Perspective views (till you run out of screen space, RAM, or rendering power).
So which "camera" do we draw?
04/18/2007 (1:13 am)
Right...I understood what you meant with the camera object. In fact, it was suggested a couple of times during development.My point is that you can have more than one view in Perspective mode, all with a different camera position. You can have an unlimited amount of Perspective views (till you run out of screen space, RAM, or rendering power).
So which "camera" do we draw?
#6
04/18/2007 (1:15 am)
Oh, i guess i never thought about having more then one view being as prespective. :-| i always use prespective as preview. but i see what you are saying. it good i can get by with what it got. 
#7
James:
That's actually preview of where the texture's planes are in the world in case you're curious about such things. It certainly helps me out a lot when I'm writing Constructor tools. :o)
You may play with its display using the Prefs tab under the Face Display section. If you just want to turn them off then uncheck Texture Planes. All of the other parameters allow you to fine-tune its rendering, including allowing its display on more than one selected face.
I hope that helps.
- LightWave Dave
04/18/2007 (11:03 am)
Greetings!James:
Quote:and also btw,i dunno if i am missing a step that is causing this or not. but when i go to face mode. and select a face of a brush. it like a ghost image of the texture comes up off to the side of the selected brush. it doesn't render or anything and not seen in brush mode just in face mode, maybe ya can tell me why i am getting this as well.
That's actually preview of where the texture's planes are in the world in case you're curious about such things. It certainly helps me out a lot when I'm writing Constructor tools. :o)
You may play with its display using the Prefs tab under the Face Display section. If you just want to turn them off then uncheck Texture Planes. All of the other parameters allow you to fine-tune its rendering, including allowing its display on more than one selected face.
I hope that helps.
- LightWave Dave
#8
04/18/2007 (11:43 am)
Yup that helps. more or less what you are saying is that it is natural and there isn't anything i am doing wrong nor is it anything i need to worry about. 
#9
The outside has all of the walls.
The inside has walls/faces missing.
Any help would be nice.
Thanks.
04/28/2007 (3:09 pm)
I am having the same trouble.The outside has all of the walls.
The inside has walls/faces missing.
Any help would be nice.
Thanks.
#10
...and when the brushes intersect.
04/30/2007 (7:11 pm)
I have the same problem with missing faces... but, only when i export with lights, portals, or static shapes....and when the brushes intersect.
#11
This is a really great tool in it's infancy. Being able to build interiors with the engine component is a God-send for torque devs, but it's crazy buggy. One thing I've recently noticed is when i save a file constructor thinks i want to either close all the scenes or quit instead of saving (using ctrl+s). Thats a really weird bug!
I'd really like to see a working way to select same faces and "clean" all unused textures out of a model. So many times I've had 10 textures in a model and only needed maybe 2 or 3 of them. So it would be nice to just say "remove unused textures". I've tried a few things to no avail though. All this not to mention getting the exporters working cleanly.
05/01/2007 (10:34 am)
Pretty much constructor can make models with corrupt faces. Complex models with many faces will really screw up in game, causing the walking through walls deal you mentioned (missing brushes on one side, but there on the other, which is more a face issue). It all looks great in constructor and most of the time in export preview, but in game is another story.This is a really great tool in it's infancy. Being able to build interiors with the engine component is a God-send for torque devs, but it's crazy buggy. One thing I've recently noticed is when i save a file constructor thinks i want to either close all the scenes or quit instead of saving (using ctrl+s). Thats a really weird bug!
I'd really like to see a working way to select same faces and "clean" all unused textures out of a model. So many times I've had 10 textures in a model and only needed maybe 2 or 3 of them. So it would be nice to just say "remove unused textures". I've tried a few things to no avail though. All this not to mention getting the exporters working cleanly.
#12
I made basically the same building first ALL in Constructor, then ALL in QUARK. The Constructor one was riddled with problems. What is strange is I can load the .map that QUARK made and all the problems are gone- well not ALL of them, now its got bright seams and odd brush cuts, but no missing faces or black blotches.
05/01/2007 (10:50 am)
I did a fun experiment yesterday. I made basically the same building first ALL in Constructor, then ALL in QUARK. The Constructor one was riddled with problems. What is strange is I can load the .map that QUARK made and all the problems are gone- well not ALL of them, now its got bright seams and odd brush cuts, but no missing faces or black blotches.
#13
I just installed 1.0.1 and it seems to work now without setting changing the brush types. I did not do the 1.0.1 with the 1.0.0 install over the top, I just installed 1.0.1 alone. Portals, however, do cause 1.0.1 to crash on export.
The only times I've seen fxFoliage, fxSunlight and the various other fx show through solid geometry is when the geometry itself is invalid (convex or overlapping). Similar issues occur on static meshes when the collision meshes are convex.
**edit - spelling error
05/15/2007 (2:38 pm)
In regards to the missing faces, if you select your brushes in 1.0.0 and try setting them all to detail instead of structural, they should all appear fine in TGE 1.5.1, lights and all.I just installed 1.0.1 and it seems to work now without setting changing the brush types. I did not do the 1.0.1 with the 1.0.0 install over the top, I just installed 1.0.1 alone. Portals, however, do cause 1.0.1 to crash on export.
The only times I've seen fxFoliage, fxSunlight and the various other fx show through solid geometry is when the geometry itself is invalid (convex or overlapping). Similar issues occur on static meshes when the collision meshes are convex.
**edit - spelling error
Torque Owner Afrim Kacaj
You can use W, S, A, D in perspective mode to move the camera up, down, left and right when holding down the right mouse button. i.e when you are moving the camera with the mouse you can use the keyboard to help.
Constructor features something better than an object representing the camera view. Its called any object...you can change the camera into target mode and select any object to rotate around it.
And last, you do not have to export the texture with the dif. You can keep all of your textures in side the interiors folder and then have subfolders or what ever you like for the difs. Torque will traverse the folders and find the textures.
Hope that helps!
Afrim Kacaj