Gears Clone in TGEA?

#1 After you mentioned this, I did some research but did not find the clone you speak of. I however continued w/ my momentum and checked numerous references to lighting and viewed comparison screenshots between TGE, TGEA, and UR3/GoW - I have to say, it seems entirely plausible that GoW could have been cloned in TGEA. GoW character models start at 500k polys, and the final models in UR3 are 5k with a normal map generated via raytracing. The environments are millions of poly's, taken down to a 100k or so and again normal mapped. Bloom is used alot in GoW and I saw many comparable effects in TGE/TLK and TGEA screenshots both. I wonder now why GoW took 10-million dollars to develop? In fact, I wonder every day for the last few months since I purchased TGE - where is the GoW built in the GG engine?. I am kind of stymied as to the whole business of a 100 dollar AAA engine. I mean, it *seeeeeems* like it will do these amazing things. But, 10 million bucks for GoW eh? Maybe the cost isn't the engine at all... 100 bucks or 250k bucks is meaningless? Where is the rat hole that costs all the money? The real question becomes, at the end of the day, does buying torque -vs- UR3 make any difference at all to the final budget?? Wow, that is a clarifying 50,000 foot view question isn't it? Hah.

#2 @Greg Hoglund

Quote:The real question becomes, at the end of the day, does buying torque -vs- UR3 make any difference at all to the final budget??

Well, $250,000 always makes a difference in any budget. Don't think that every single penny wasn't squeezed out of that 10 million. When top tier programmers are making $200,000 a year, $250,000 is not a drop in the bucket to any AAA production. Honestly, I don't know how people like Ben Garney are still working for GG when they'd be worth 50 times what they are making now.

Games cost money to make. The bigger the game, the more it costs. Quality costs money. No way around that. Don't think for a second that Unreal 3 isn't worth $250,000. But if your game can't afford that cost, then your game doesn't need Unreal 3, cause you can't afford what you would need to make that would require Unreal 3.

#3 Yeah, I guess that makes alot of sense. I am assuming that big AAA titles are choosing UR3 for a reason, and that they get what they pay for. I could never afford such a big ticket item, and I am sooo glad for torque - if for any other reason I am learning a ton about game technology for almost no financial burden other than my time. I think alot about business problems on a daily basis, so this economic question around garage games has me stumped. I think it's a fair question because I just want to understand the economics of indie development. Some basic thoughts keep running thru my mind, like "if I get funding for this, should I just use UR3" - or "Is it even possible to build a low-budget indie game that meets current gaming standards" ?? I suspect there is a tremendous amount of cost that has nothing to do w/ the choice of game engine - that is, I will end up paying those costs regardless. Can a game like GoW or ninety-nine-nights even be possible for less than a millions-of-dollars budget... making TGEA vs UR3 a drop-in-the-bucket so to speak. I would love to see the GoW clone you mentioned - I think it would get alot people, me included, past this mental barrier.

#4 I think you could achieve a scene of some characters and buildings with some cool effects and get close to the look of Gears, but making a clone/port of that game on stock TGEA, in my opinion, would be extremely difficult. Major modifications would have to be done to get the engine to do the things done in Gears. A tech demo I think you could do if you can write shaders well, a full blown port of Gears on stock TGEA would be very difficult I would imagine but would love to be proved wrong.

I also agree with Anton that if you can't afford an engine like U3, you won't be utilizing it anyways without the proper amount of funding.

I would love to see the Gears clone demo too if it exists! Like I said, I do think its possible to achieve a similar look.. but a demo would have to prove me otherwise about a full blown port of Gears to TSE. :)

Please if someone knows where to find some vids of this clone.. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post them!!

#5 Not sure if it still means much, but we're turning Illumina into a game like Gears.

Cover System

Over the Shoulder Aiming

#6 Here is the project I was originally talking about. All TGEA

http://www.playlore.com/demoreel/Playlore_demo_reel_2007.mov

#7 Linkage . . .

www.playlore.com/demoreel/Playlore_demo_reel_2007.mov

#8

Quote:Honestly, I don't know how people like Ben Garney are still working for GG when they'd be worth 50 times what they are making now.

Yeah, it's probably because GG is a really, really cool place to work. And that's not fanboism, it's just the number one thing that struck me from Not-IGC 06.

#9 After downloading and watching the vid - wow 250 MB - it looks pretty good. Not quite Gears level yet, but nice all the same. It's always cool to see new projects being done in TGE/A.

@Matt V

How are you approaching the cover system in Illumina? In my mental exercises on the subject, I was thinking that vehicle-style mount points for each cover element would be a good place to start.

#10 Why would anyone want to make a clone of gears of war, one of the worst games I ever played, just thought I'd throw that in

#11 J Sears, I'm not a huge fan of Gears either. I do, however, like the over the shoulder view system.

Aaron, at the moment it's somewhat flawed. Basically the users get a new control scheme which gives us a lot of control over what they can and can't do. For instance, when in crouch mode, users can only strafe across and they hold down right click to get into aiming mode. It works pretty well and only took a few hours to code up.

I was impressed with the video, though amazed that it took up 250MB. The normal maps look a bit ugly(Photoshop filter), but the characters were extremely impressive. Just goes to show that great art can really make a game visually.

#12 Ya, the vid was impressive. Definitely not Gears quality but its refreshing to see something like this in Torque. The grfx quality reminds me of Unreal Engine 2.0. Well done PlayLore! :D

#13 Excellent demo.

#14 Thanks for the info Matt. If you guys put any videos together for the new features, be sure to let us know. Illumina is one project that definitely has piqued my interest.

:)

#15 @Ian Omroth Hardingham

Yeah, that was said to point out that just because GG sells TGE for less than $250k doesn't mean it's not worth more. Point of fact... having a coder like Ben who is worth more than GG probably was making selling licenses to TGE for a while there. Though... a while back they posted jobs for coders and the salary was quite more industry standard. I expect the GG employees are making more now that things are really taking off for GG.

#16 That's pretty funny. Makes me think of one of those scenarios where a cheap knock-off mimics a big hit. Still, what's that saying? Something like if you can make it 80% as good for 20% of the cost? I bet with more time they could get closer to a good clone style.

I'll just toss out that I think Gears of War is an impressive game. Very moody, movie-like visuals, easy gameplay, very good audio. If anything, I think people tend to underrate it. What other game has come close to that level of quality in terms of presentation? Not too many years ago people would have been wowed by a CGI movie looking as good, imo.