Ok Developer Types
by Bill · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 01/29/2007 (12:07 pm) · 10 replies
I was a long time Tribes and Tribes2 player. Both games have diminished down to an extremely small player base now. I picked up America's Army towards the end of T2 because it employed a tactic not seen in most shooters - patience. Teamwork is required as well and I have been playing it since.
Even though I really enjoy AA, I do wish I had something else to play. Not hip at all on any of the Final Fantasy rewrites (aka WoW, L2, Silk Road, etc) and I started looking at other shooters and RTS's.
Was browsing ebgames.com last night and realized that the entire industry is pigeon holed itself.
85% of all shooters were some sort of infantry-based war game. Burnt out on the whole BF series from years of playing it (BF1942, DC, BF:V, BF2 Demo). BF 2142 is BF2 with different skins and weapons. Same style of gameplay with a facelift. CS and CS:S, imho, suck. Not really itching to go buy COD, MOH, GR, RS, etc Just far too many "War Games" out there. Last thing the market needs is another variant of it.
Then there's the giblet frag games like Quake, HL, and UT - after 4 years spent in Unreal 1 and UT 99, kinda burnt there too.
That was it for the FPS's. It was all infantry games and almost all of them are reaction style gaming only. Pretty much none of them require a team to think and react simultaneously except maybe the BF series, but the thinking aspect in BF2 gets diminished in lieu of players wanting to jack up their statistics.
The RTS's are concentrated on era's gone by. Played Risk, don't want another one. An old Starcraft and Dark Reign 2 player, I just can't get into games like Rome and such.
Games with alot of imagination in the characters, the gameplay, and the world's terrain that require the players to think, adjust, and strategize on the fly and constantly at that have ceased to exist. Everything is about eye candy. How far can they push the graphics envelope.
I keep looking for some advancement on Legions, but I think that's a slow project considering GG's focus is the engine and not the game. Last thing we need is T1 or T2 Classic on a better engine. Those games were great, but why put effort into something less than 1000 people will buy?
So, if anyone has a recommendation on or is developing a multiplayer game that is NOT 3rd person, has nothing to with magic, is not sports, is not an infantry war game, and is not some thug gang orientated theme - please tell me lol!!!!! I need a diversion from AA to balance things out.
Even though I really enjoy AA, I do wish I had something else to play. Not hip at all on any of the Final Fantasy rewrites (aka WoW, L2, Silk Road, etc) and I started looking at other shooters and RTS's.
Was browsing ebgames.com last night and realized that the entire industry is pigeon holed itself.
85% of all shooters were some sort of infantry-based war game. Burnt out on the whole BF series from years of playing it (BF1942, DC, BF:V, BF2 Demo). BF 2142 is BF2 with different skins and weapons. Same style of gameplay with a facelift. CS and CS:S, imho, suck. Not really itching to go buy COD, MOH, GR, RS, etc Just far too many "War Games" out there. Last thing the market needs is another variant of it.
Then there's the giblet frag games like Quake, HL, and UT - after 4 years spent in Unreal 1 and UT 99, kinda burnt there too.
That was it for the FPS's. It was all infantry games and almost all of them are reaction style gaming only. Pretty much none of them require a team to think and react simultaneously except maybe the BF series, but the thinking aspect in BF2 gets diminished in lieu of players wanting to jack up their statistics.
The RTS's are concentrated on era's gone by. Played Risk, don't want another one. An old Starcraft and Dark Reign 2 player, I just can't get into games like Rome and such.
Games with alot of imagination in the characters, the gameplay, and the world's terrain that require the players to think, adjust, and strategize on the fly and constantly at that have ceased to exist. Everything is about eye candy. How far can they push the graphics envelope.
I keep looking for some advancement on Legions, but I think that's a slow project considering GG's focus is the engine and not the game. Last thing we need is T1 or T2 Classic on a better engine. Those games were great, but why put effort into something less than 1000 people will buy?
So, if anyone has a recommendation on or is developing a multiplayer game that is NOT 3rd person, has nothing to with magic, is not sports, is not an infantry war game, and is not some thug gang orientated theme - please tell me lol!!!!! I need a diversion from AA to balance things out.
#2
Awakened from it's slumber, a strange and powerful force has reanimated the dead to besiege the small town of Burden. Assume the role of one of the last 80 survivors and team up with other players to uncover the secrets of a shady town, defeat the army of undead, and it's leader, and bring peace back to a once quiet community. Mature audiences only!
Want more info?
- Ronixus
02/28/2007 (1:43 pm)
What about a dramatic multiplayer action horror game within a sur-realistic/sci-fi setting? It's my first full project with TGE!Awakened from it's slumber, a strange and powerful force has reanimated the dead to besiege the small town of Burden. Assume the role of one of the last 80 survivors and team up with other players to uncover the secrets of a shady town, defeat the army of undead, and it's leader, and bring peace back to a once quiet community. Mature audiences only!
Want more info?
- Ronixus
#3
*EDIT*- There's a difference between intriguing storyline (which you posted), and ground breaking game design (what Introversion does).
02/28/2007 (1:48 pm)
Like Doom? Or Resident Evil Outbreak?*EDIT*- There's a difference between intriguing storyline (which you posted), and ground breaking game design (what Introversion does).
#4
It's sort of a mix between something like the Descent series and an RTS.
I tend to like older games, because they seem to focus more on gameplay than anything else.
03/03/2007 (2:32 pm)
A buddy of mine was going through his old PC games the other day, and he found one that I think might be the sort of thing you're talking about. It isn't multiplayer, but it is original and it's a whole lot of fun. It's called Battle Zone, and it's a major re-make of the classic arcade game of the same name. It's not crazy violent or crazy fast-it requires patience.It's sort of a mix between something like the Descent series and an RTS.
I tend to like older games, because they seem to focus more on gameplay than anything else.
#5
Are you adverse to playing in a world that has magic? The reason I ask is I just started a new character in Morrowind. My name is Bubba and I am a Red Neck (class). Basically I hang out with other Red Necks (fighters guild) and kill, maim, intimidate, deliver alcohol to anyone I have orders for. If I want something from a wuss I take it. I got this really cool ax that I can beat people with and I am happy. Of course I am an Orc (the ultimate red neck). I have to uphold the honor of my people by kickin butt where ever I go. I can kick anyones but if I drink enough alcohol and I got some really cool football uniform (armor). Yep, I am livin' the high life.
The point is a game like Morrowind is so open you can actually "role play". You could play like there is no magic and just be like what the hell is that and run away. For my Bubba he just gets mad and starts swinging. Bubba has way more than nine lives, but that does not slow him down. If a magic guy hurts him he says, "What you all gonn' do when my ax smashes yer purty magical head in?". Now, Bubba is still a religious ma...orc so he believes that the only good power there is comes from his god. So he says his prayers and asks his god to move him around the place from time to time (mysticism), but he is gonn' stay away from that other funny stuff like fire n smart stuff like physics. He knows some day hell have to kick the devils ass in red mountain, but the time aint right jus' yet. First he has got to kick that man god's ass for being sacraligious to his god.
Have fun,
Frank
03/05/2007 (7:59 pm)
Bill, Are you adverse to playing in a world that has magic? The reason I ask is I just started a new character in Morrowind. My name is Bubba and I am a Red Neck (class). Basically I hang out with other Red Necks (fighters guild) and kill, maim, intimidate, deliver alcohol to anyone I have orders for. If I want something from a wuss I take it. I got this really cool ax that I can beat people with and I am happy. Of course I am an Orc (the ultimate red neck). I have to uphold the honor of my people by kickin butt where ever I go. I can kick anyones but if I drink enough alcohol and I got some really cool football uniform (armor). Yep, I am livin' the high life.
The point is a game like Morrowind is so open you can actually "role play". You could play like there is no magic and just be like what the hell is that and run away. For my Bubba he just gets mad and starts swinging. Bubba has way more than nine lives, but that does not slow him down. If a magic guy hurts him he says, "What you all gonn' do when my ax smashes yer purty magical head in?". Now, Bubba is still a religious ma...orc so he believes that the only good power there is comes from his god. So he says his prayers and asks his god to move him around the place from time to time (mysticism), but he is gonn' stay away from that other funny stuff like fire n smart stuff like physics. He knows some day hell have to kick the devils ass in red mountain, but the time aint right jus' yet. First he has got to kick that man god's ass for being sacraligious to his god.
Have fun,
Frank
#6
I'm an FPS guy Frank :)
Another game I love playing is X3:Reunion. By all rights, I should have fell in love with playing Eve Online as the entire concept was exactly the same with quite a few extras. I tried it for three months and the 3rd person, menu-driven aspect just bored me to tears.
So, not liking 3rd person games and not getting into the whole magic/fantasy aspect, I'm really struggling. The wierd thing is that I've talked to alot of people who play WoW and Lineage II and they all say that if an FPS came out that was not a rewrite of an older game or another Solider-Shoot-Em-Up that they would grab it like it was golden.
The FPS genre got choked out pretty much. The failure of Tribes:Vengeance apparently made it taboo for game developers to use their imagination outside of the box. No one has tried since for two basic reasons:
1) The publishers dictate what will be popular via marketing.
2) At the time of T:V's release, the FPS genre was high gear into the Solider-Shoot-Em-Up's. Great concept, but it's dying off quickly.
Games like WoW, Morrowind, LineageII, etc are having their point in the spot light right now.
Games are much like music. As as musician, I know that one has to consistantly write for tomorrow rather than today. If I wrote music that was in the same feel as what is popular now, I would not have a chance at experiencing any long term or significant success. By the time I wrote, recorded, submitted, and published the music, it would be on the tail end of the fad. Known plently of musicians who had that happen and they all kick themselves for trying to get on a boat that's already full instead of getting on one that hasn't launched yet.
Everyone who is trying to cash in on the MMORPG market with a new release will meet with extremely limited success if any at all. By the time their product is finished and at the point of distribution, it will be too late. Only the established titles will be able to continue on.
In another couple of years, the MMORPG fad will whither away much like a musical fad does. What is going to be next? Who is going to be at the helm of the new boat?
Right now, it appears taht the next bold step is Huxley. An MMOFPS. Me personally, I've always though that if an FPS developer took the concepts of Tribes2, Planetside, and a concept that is now Huxley and combined them that it might just be the pinnacle of the PC gaming evolution. The key word it "might." No one really knows what the market will latch onto next, but we do know that the market is getting thin on choices right now and that's always an idicator that change is on the inevitable horizon.
If anyone at GarageGames is reading this and think that maybe having another brain available for concept design in Legions (I'd give it freely) would be nice, shoot me an email! I could also provide some music too as my studio is running full gear at the moment :)
03/05/2007 (9:01 pm)
Vitreous Humor, I used to play BZ (there was more than one in that series and multiplayer in the last one too!) The great thing about BZ was being able to recycle things! And yes, you're right. Gameplay was the major factor.I'm an FPS guy Frank :)
Another game I love playing is X3:Reunion. By all rights, I should have fell in love with playing Eve Online as the entire concept was exactly the same with quite a few extras. I tried it for three months and the 3rd person, menu-driven aspect just bored me to tears.
So, not liking 3rd person games and not getting into the whole magic/fantasy aspect, I'm really struggling. The wierd thing is that I've talked to alot of people who play WoW and Lineage II and they all say that if an FPS came out that was not a rewrite of an older game or another Solider-Shoot-Em-Up that they would grab it like it was golden.
The FPS genre got choked out pretty much. The failure of Tribes:Vengeance apparently made it taboo for game developers to use their imagination outside of the box. No one has tried since for two basic reasons:
1) The publishers dictate what will be popular via marketing.
2) At the time of T:V's release, the FPS genre was high gear into the Solider-Shoot-Em-Up's. Great concept, but it's dying off quickly.
Games like WoW, Morrowind, LineageII, etc are having their point in the spot light right now.
Games are much like music. As as musician, I know that one has to consistantly write for tomorrow rather than today. If I wrote music that was in the same feel as what is popular now, I would not have a chance at experiencing any long term or significant success. By the time I wrote, recorded, submitted, and published the music, it would be on the tail end of the fad. Known plently of musicians who had that happen and they all kick themselves for trying to get on a boat that's already full instead of getting on one that hasn't launched yet.
Everyone who is trying to cash in on the MMORPG market with a new release will meet with extremely limited success if any at all. By the time their product is finished and at the point of distribution, it will be too late. Only the established titles will be able to continue on.
In another couple of years, the MMORPG fad will whither away much like a musical fad does. What is going to be next? Who is going to be at the helm of the new boat?
Right now, it appears taht the next bold step is Huxley. An MMOFPS. Me personally, I've always though that if an FPS developer took the concepts of Tribes2, Planetside, and a concept that is now Huxley and combined them that it might just be the pinnacle of the PC gaming evolution. The key word it "might." No one really knows what the market will latch onto next, but we do know that the market is getting thin on choices right now and that's always an idicator that change is on the inevitable horizon.
If anyone at GarageGames is reading this and think that maybe having another brain available for concept design in Legions (I'd give it freely) would be nice, shoot me an email! I could also provide some music too as my studio is running full gear at the moment :)
#7
- Ronixus
;)
03/07/2007 (2:24 am)
I guess gruesome, hunger-maddened zombies, that are attracted to your scent and annoying rambling and are hiding in the FxFoliage as they sneak up directly in front of you to pounce on your face, isn't too innovative...- Ronixus
;)
#8
I would love to restart the project, but finding people that are interested isn't easy. Most are either more interested in medieval style mmorpg's or they are in the middle of other projects. Your post makes me want to try again though, only this time, I will have a backup plan.
If you are interested in helping in such a project, by all means, please let me know. If I can raise enough interest, I would love the opportunity to get this project going again.
*edit
I guess I should mention that it is futuristic in nature. I too was a large tribes2 fan. I also beta tested planetside until its release. I never bought ps, I thought it lacked in too many areas.
03/07/2007 (3:51 am)
@Bill- I pitched an idea for a game almost identical to what your speaking of about a year ago. I got some pretty positive feedback and actually got a small team put together to start work on it. Unfortunately, I fell ill and was hospitalized. What should have been an easy fix turned ugly when I had complications. Staying in touch with the team became nearly impossible and things started to fall apart. By the time I returned home and things settled down for me, the team had given up. I can't blame them. I should have had something in place in case something like this happened.I would love to restart the project, but finding people that are interested isn't easy. Most are either more interested in medieval style mmorpg's or they are in the middle of other projects. Your post makes me want to try again though, only this time, I will have a backup plan.
If you are interested in helping in such a project, by all means, please let me know. If I can raise enough interest, I would love the opportunity to get this project going again.
*edit
I guess I should mention that it is futuristic in nature. I too was a large tribes2 fan. I also beta tested planetside until its release. I never bought ps, I thought it lacked in too many areas.
#9
I can second your feelings, Bill. I'd love to play a well made MMOFPS, that isn't horribly unbalanced like Planetside was.
03/07/2007 (5:49 am)
With no malice, Christopher, I can safely say it isn't innovative. Mind you, it still has potential to be fun. Hell, I'd probably buy it because I'm a zombie fanatic. My first game made with Torque was a survival horror set in varying towns where your character and characters controlled by other players had to survive. Fun...absolutely...innovative, most likely not.I can second your feelings, Bill. I'd love to play a well made MMOFPS, that isn't horribly unbalanced like Planetside was.
#10
The next logical step in games will be to combine fps with rpgs in a way that doesn't directly hinder gameplay by one or the other being overpowered. Thats pretty much my course of action with Neophagia, to combine *some* of the more popular genres types to make an interesting title. Unfortunately, a jack-of-all game would more then likely be a bust, there is really a lot of diverse players out there, even if they aren't VERY diverse. Whether we as adults like it or not, kids still hold the majority of game players market and to many of them an fps or rpg is new and exciting and the more immersion the better.
03/22/2007 (10:52 am)
I have to say that most games of the many genres are very similar because they are successful and appeal to larger audiences then games that don't really speak to life as we know it. Games that are way off the beaten path are typically overlooked or underplayed due to complexity or they just don't feel right.The next logical step in games will be to combine fps with rpgs in a way that doesn't directly hinder gameplay by one or the other being overpowered. Thats pretty much my course of action with Neophagia, to combine *some* of the more popular genres types to make an interesting title. Unfortunately, a jack-of-all game would more then likely be a bust, there is really a lot of diverse players out there, even if they aren't VERY diverse. Whether we as adults like it or not, kids still hold the majority of game players market and to many of them an fps or rpg is new and exciting and the more immersion the better.
Employee Michael Perry
ZombieShortbus
Their games are the cure for the disease that is "beaten-to-death-game-concept." They have one multiplayer game, which is the recently released Defcon.
Uplink is still one of my all time favorite games. It has aged well, was never reliant on fancy graphics, and has an original game concept that is both fun and unique.
Demos are available for all of their games, and their products are wicked inexpensive.
EDIT- It should be noticed they have released the full source code for Uplink as a purchase on their product page. This would allow a crafty developer to make it multiplayer.