My dream game....
by Jeremy · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 01/22/2007 (1:47 am) · 37 replies
Yo. Ok, first off, I'm new to the whole game development thing. I'm in school right now to earn two Bachelor's degrees, one in Game Art & Design, and one in Game Software Development. So I'm just tryin to get into communities like this and gain as much knowledge as I can, because I know nothing about programming and game engines and such. I've just discovered these forums, and I'll probably be trolling around here all the time now.
Anywaaaay, I though I'd start out by posting my dream game. And it's just that, a DREAM GAME. I know it's not really possible that this game ever comes to reality (because of licensing). But it's fun to dream......and discuss....
I want a 3D fighting/shooting game with all the popular video game characters. I wanna see fights like Link vs Cloud, Master Chief vs Samus, Dante vs Ryu Hayabusa, Snake vs Sam, etc. But here's the thing, I want each character to stay as true to their games as possible. For example: if you play as Master Chief you have to use first person view, and his controls would be as close to the Halo games as possible. You would also use the same health system and everything. It would be just like you're playing Halo, except you're fighting against different enemies. Then you could go play as Link, and assign weapons to different buttons, and do the auto jumping, and use "L-targeting," just like in the Zelda series. I think this would be a really cool idea. It would be the most diverse fighting game ever. Each character would be so unique, and would control so differently. But now of course this concept wouldn't apply to all characters. For instance Cloud Strife doesn't have a real set of controls to go by. So perhaps his would be a combination of FF7, Kingdom Hearts, and Ehrgeiz. Certain characters like that would have original controls.
But what really interests me in this whole idea, is to see the top players from different games battle it out. Imagine the best Halo player in the world going up against the best Ninja Gaiden player in the world. Wouldn't that be sweet? See the whole concept behind this, is to make players good with their respective characters. So if you're good at Devil May Cry, then you're gonna be good with Dante in this game. If you're good at Splinter Cell, you're gonna be good with Sam Fisher in this game, and so on. And also, this game would be great for settling those age old "who would win" debates.
And whether they end up liking it or not, so many people would buy this game. The Halo fans are gonna buy it cuz a Master Chief, the Zelda fans are gonna buy it cuz a Link, and so on. I mean I bought Soul Calibur 2 just because of Link, and I didn't really like it all that much, but I still bought it, just like almost every other Zelda fan did. And see here's the thing, the Halo fan would buy the game and play as MC. He would feel at home and comfortable, and would be happy with the controls for his character. Most likely, he's gonna play as MC primarily whenever he plays this game, because that's what he's used to and that's the kinda gameplay he likes. He doesn't have to worry about the controls for other characters. He's a Halo player. For him, the game would be like the next Halo, except he's just fighting against completely different enemies. This concept would hold true for every character. A lot of people would be very happy and satisfied.
Anywaaaay, I though I'd start out by posting my dream game. And it's just that, a DREAM GAME. I know it's not really possible that this game ever comes to reality (because of licensing). But it's fun to dream......and discuss....
I want a 3D fighting/shooting game with all the popular video game characters. I wanna see fights like Link vs Cloud, Master Chief vs Samus, Dante vs Ryu Hayabusa, Snake vs Sam, etc. But here's the thing, I want each character to stay as true to their games as possible. For example: if you play as Master Chief you have to use first person view, and his controls would be as close to the Halo games as possible. You would also use the same health system and everything. It would be just like you're playing Halo, except you're fighting against different enemies. Then you could go play as Link, and assign weapons to different buttons, and do the auto jumping, and use "L-targeting," just like in the Zelda series. I think this would be a really cool idea. It would be the most diverse fighting game ever. Each character would be so unique, and would control so differently. But now of course this concept wouldn't apply to all characters. For instance Cloud Strife doesn't have a real set of controls to go by. So perhaps his would be a combination of FF7, Kingdom Hearts, and Ehrgeiz. Certain characters like that would have original controls.
But what really interests me in this whole idea, is to see the top players from different games battle it out. Imagine the best Halo player in the world going up against the best Ninja Gaiden player in the world. Wouldn't that be sweet? See the whole concept behind this, is to make players good with their respective characters. So if you're good at Devil May Cry, then you're gonna be good with Dante in this game. If you're good at Splinter Cell, you're gonna be good with Sam Fisher in this game, and so on. And also, this game would be great for settling those age old "who would win" debates.
And whether they end up liking it or not, so many people would buy this game. The Halo fans are gonna buy it cuz a Master Chief, the Zelda fans are gonna buy it cuz a Link, and so on. I mean I bought Soul Calibur 2 just because of Link, and I didn't really like it all that much, but I still bought it, just like almost every other Zelda fan did. And see here's the thing, the Halo fan would buy the game and play as MC. He would feel at home and comfortable, and would be happy with the controls for his character. Most likely, he's gonna play as MC primarily whenever he plays this game, because that's what he's used to and that's the kinda gameplay he likes. He doesn't have to worry about the controls for other characters. He's a Halo player. For him, the game would be like the next Halo, except he's just fighting against completely different enemies. This concept would hold true for every character. A lot of people would be very happy and satisfied.
#2
01/22/2007 (5:17 am)
In the above are superficial, secondary properties of the game. What's really interesting, is the inner physics, how it all works, why your gameplay should be better than that of other fightings etc.
#3
Mario vs. Sonic! Earthworm Jim vs. Jazz Jackrabbit!
would this be designed for the PC? 'Cause there's the problem of controls. If you wanted them to be most accurate to the original controls, then you'd need to have multiple controllers, right?
Halo is an XBox/PC game, and any game with Link is only ever on Nintendo systems. I don't know. I'm just typing on and on and on. Bla bla bla.
I think I might buy the game, but I don't think it's possible to make it fun for fans of all the characters, simply because of how uneven it would be.
Master Chief would totally waste Link. I only played Zelda games when the Nintendo 64 was popular, so it's been a while, but I can say with a decent amount of certainty that it wouldn't be a fair fight.
02/01/2007 (2:03 pm)
Left our cartoony characters!Mario vs. Sonic! Earthworm Jim vs. Jazz Jackrabbit!
would this be designed for the PC? 'Cause there's the problem of controls. If you wanted them to be most accurate to the original controls, then you'd need to have multiple controllers, right?
Halo is an XBox/PC game, and any game with Link is only ever on Nintendo systems. I don't know. I'm just typing on and on and on. Bla bla bla.
I think I might buy the game, but I don't think it's possible to make it fun for fans of all the characters, simply because of how uneven it would be.
Master Chief would totally waste Link. I only played Zelda games when the Nintendo 64 was popular, so it's been a while, but I can say with a decent amount of certainty that it wouldn't be a fair fight.
#4
I've always been a big fan of games that mix characters, which is why I love the Super Smash Bros series. I thought about bashing your idea at first, because I'm quick to judge games that are just replicas of pre-existing designs and concept (I'm guilty of doing this myself, which is why I'm my toughest critic). However, you are putting an interesting spin on the idea: mixing genres as well as characters. I love the idea of playing in FPS mode, as say, Duke Nukem while my friend is fighting me as Scorpion in a 3rd person fighter scheme.
Yes, I would enjoy this game and probably enjoy playing it for the novelty value alone. Do I think it's feasible for a small or Indie team, absolutely not =). That's why you see original and creative designs come from Indie teams: they don't have the funding to license characters or purchase sequel rights.
My only piece of advice for your future developments is start with a game concept, hammer out core game play, then worry about content. And, as always:
02/01/2007 (2:42 pm)
First, welcome to the industry. I hope your higher education goes well.I've always been a big fan of games that mix characters, which is why I love the Super Smash Bros series. I thought about bashing your idea at first, because I'm quick to judge games that are just replicas of pre-existing designs and concept (I'm guilty of doing this myself, which is why I'm my toughest critic). However, you are putting an interesting spin on the idea: mixing genres as well as characters. I love the idea of playing in FPS mode, as say, Duke Nukem while my friend is fighting me as Scorpion in a 3rd person fighter scheme.
Yes, I would enjoy this game and probably enjoy playing it for the novelty value alone. Do I think it's feasible for a small or Indie team, absolutely not =). That's why you see original and creative designs come from Indie teams: they don't have the funding to license characters or purchase sequel rights.
My only piece of advice for your future developments is start with a game concept, hammer out core game play, then worry about content. And, as always:
Quote:
Read. Read code. Cod
#5
I dunnooooo. If you took all the best weapons and items that Link has had throughout the Zelda series, Master Chief wouldn't stand a chance. But that wouldn't be fair. But still, I think you could come close to a balance.
That makes me wonder though, which genre would be the best? The first-person shooters? The third-person fighters? The third person shooters?
02/03/2007 (12:56 pm)
"Master Chief would totally waste Link. I only played Zelda games when the Nintendo 64 was popular, so it's been a while, but I can say with a decent amount of certainty that it wouldn't be a fair fight."I dunnooooo. If you took all the best weapons and items that Link has had throughout the Zelda series, Master Chief wouldn't stand a chance. But that wouldn't be fair. But still, I think you could come close to a balance.
That makes me wonder though, which genre would be the best? The first-person shooters? The third-person fighters? The third person shooters?
#6
I think, personally, that the FPS would be best, simply because I find it easier to be more accurate. And, of course, with the third person fighter, you have to close to your enemy to do damage, and the whole time you're running toward them they can be shooting at you.
02/04/2007 (12:25 pm)
Well now I'm curious. I can't really remember. What does Link have defensively-what does he have for protection?I think, personally, that the FPS would be best, simply because I find it easier to be more accurate. And, of course, with the third person fighter, you have to close to your enemy to do damage, and the whole time you're running toward them they can be shooting at you.
#7
And if you're really curious about everything Link has had throughout the series, go here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/weapons-and-items-from-the-legend-of-zelda-series#top
02/05/2007 (12:11 pm)
Well he has his shield of course, which he can use while moving. So he could be blocking bullets from MC and get closer to him at the same time. Plus he's had all sorts of defensive magic powers in his games. Like in Ocarina of Time, he has Nayru's Love. It casts a forcefield around him preventing damage, but it uses up magic power. And if you're really curious about everything Link has had throughout the series, go here:
http://www.answers.com/topic/weapons-and-items-from-the-legend-of-zelda-series#top
#8
02/05/2007 (9:49 pm)
I'm not really. Even with his shield, MC could snipe him with one well aimed shot. 
#9
Link's wooden shield wouldn't stop a pistol round in real life. It's hardly a fair fight. Of course, there's the metal shield, but MC's weapons chew through Coveant armour.
Likewise MC against, say, Sam Fisher. If Fisher tried to hold MC to gunpoint like in the SC games, MC could ignore him or break his wrist.
This, I think, highlights one of the fundamental problems with the concept: balance. Now, it's certainly possible to strike a balance between al the weapons and spells, etc., used by the characters, and it could be made into something very playable (I like the unique-controls idea). But for me, at least, I hate the idea of artificially balancing things. Of course, it's necessary in some cases, but it just creates questions and turns off the player. For example (going back to Halo), why can Master Chief flip over a tank yet not be able to dual-wield rocket launchers? Simple answer: balance. It's be pretty overpowered to have a Spartan running around with two launchers, even though by all rights it should be possible.
Anyway, I think the concept is quite unique, even though none of the characters are ;). Could make a very nice game, one that appeals to all types of gamers.
02/06/2007 (9:56 am)
Quote:Master Chief would totally waste Link. I only played Zelda games when the Nintendo 64 was popular, so it's been a while, but I can say with a decent amount of certainty that it wouldn't be a fair fight.
Quote:I dunnooooo. If you took all the best weapons and items that Link has had throughout the Zelda series, Master Chief wouldn't stand a chance.
Quote:Well now I'm curious. I can't really remember. What does Link have defensively-what does he have for protection?
Quote:Well he has his shield of course, which he can use while moving. So he could be blocking bullets from MC and get closer to him at the same time.Let's think about this. Master Chief has super armour and shields that can stop everything short of heavy artillery fire. He has modern weapons, amazing strength, and Cortana to help him (maybe). Link has a tunic, sword, shield, and assorted magic items.
Link's wooden shield wouldn't stop a pistol round in real life. It's hardly a fair fight. Of course, there's the metal shield, but MC's weapons chew through Coveant armour.
Likewise MC against, say, Sam Fisher. If Fisher tried to hold MC to gunpoint like in the SC games, MC could ignore him or break his wrist.
This, I think, highlights one of the fundamental problems with the concept: balance. Now, it's certainly possible to strike a balance between al the weapons and spells, etc., used by the characters, and it could be made into something very playable (I like the unique-controls idea). But for me, at least, I hate the idea of artificially balancing things. Of course, it's necessary in some cases, but it just creates questions and turns off the player. For example (going back to Halo), why can Master Chief flip over a tank yet not be able to dual-wield rocket launchers? Simple answer: balance. It's be pretty overpowered to have a Spartan running around with two launchers, even though by all rights it should be possible.
Anyway, I think the concept is quite unique, even though none of the characters are ;). Could make a very nice game, one that appeals to all types of gamers.
#10
02/06/2007 (4:31 pm)
And that was my point the whole time. I can't ever seem to get it across right... Curses.
#11
By the way,
Link in magic armour is invicible (at least, in Twilight Princess it is).
And you don't have Sonic on your list.
02/06/2007 (5:34 pm)
Very interesting game idea. (could almost never happen but still very interesting)By the way,
Link in magic armour is invicible (at least, in Twilight Princess it is).
And you don't have Sonic on your list.
#12
Well all fighting games have little things that don't make sense. Look at Samus in smash bros. It doesn't make any sense that he gets hurt by Link's arrows...or by headbutts from pikachu. And besides, I think it would be perfectly reasonable and arguably realistic to allow Link's metal shield to block MC's bullets. That's definitely not asking too much. Now when it comes to Snake/Sam grabbing MC from behind and snapping his neck or slitting his throat, then yea that can be a concern, because that's almost too unrealistic to be in a game. To address that I would give MC the ability to flip Snake/Sam over his shoulder by tapping X or something.
And I don't think any of that would be "artificial balance." But still, I wouldn't like the idea of making a character at COMPLETELY full power just so he can match another character who is only at half power. I wouldn't want that in the game. I'd rather it be unbalanced. See, I like to think of it like a sports game, where the developers aren't trying to make the teams balanced. They're trying to represent the teams as realistically as possible. The 49ers are terrible in Madden, yet their fans still play as them even though they're probably gonna lose. They don't care. They love their team so much that they're willing to suffer through the defeats. I think it'd be the same in this game. There'll be so many Zelda fans that would play as Link no matter how bad he is, just because they're such hardcore fans.
02/06/2007 (9:21 pm)
Quote:Let's think about this. Master Chief has super armour and shields that can stop everything short of heavy artillery fire. He has modern weapons, amazing strength, and Cortana to help him (maybe). Link has a tunic, sword, shield, and assorted magic items.
Link's wooden shield wouldn't stop a pistol round in real life. It's hardly a fair fight. Of course, there's the metal shield, but MC's weapons chew through Coveant armour.
Likewise MC against, say, Sam Fisher. If Fisher tried to hold MC to gunpoint like in the SC games, MC could ignore him or break his wrist.
This, I think, highlights one of the fundamental problems with the concept: balance. Now, it's certainly possible to strike a balance between al the weapons and spells, etc., used by the characters, and it could be made into something very playable (I like the unique-controls idea). But for me, at least, I hate the idea of artificially balancing things. Of course, it's necessary in some cases, but it just creates questions and turns off the player. For example (going back to Halo), why can Master Chief flip over a tank yet not be able to dual-wield rocket launchers? Simple answer: balance. It's be pretty overpowered to have a Spartan running around with two launchers, even though by all rights it should be possible.
Well all fighting games have little things that don't make sense. Look at Samus in smash bros. It doesn't make any sense that he gets hurt by Link's arrows...or by headbutts from pikachu. And besides, I think it would be perfectly reasonable and arguably realistic to allow Link's metal shield to block MC's bullets. That's definitely not asking too much. Now when it comes to Snake/Sam grabbing MC from behind and snapping his neck or slitting his throat, then yea that can be a concern, because that's almost too unrealistic to be in a game. To address that I would give MC the ability to flip Snake/Sam over his shoulder by tapping X or something.
And I don't think any of that would be "artificial balance." But still, I wouldn't like the idea of making a character at COMPLETELY full power just so he can match another character who is only at half power. I wouldn't want that in the game. I'd rather it be unbalanced. See, I like to think of it like a sports game, where the developers aren't trying to make the teams balanced. They're trying to represent the teams as realistically as possible. The 49ers are terrible in Madden, yet their fans still play as them even though they're probably gonna lose. They don't care. They love their team so much that they're willing to suffer through the defeats. I think it'd be the same in this game. There'll be so many Zelda fans that would play as Link no matter how bad he is, just because they're such hardcore fans.
#13
I'm gonna make this game and sell it illegally like drugs.
But seriously though, is this game even possible as an indie project if you didn't sell it? Because if I had the ability and knowledge to make this game, I totally would. I don't care if I made a cent. But I'm just wondering if it's possible with indie engines.....if so, what engine would you use?
Yea, until you run out of rupees.
Yea I think the game would be better without cartoony characters. I mean could you imagine Sonic or Mario having their throat slit by Snake? Or being gutted by Kratos? And then if you have them, people would be like "well where's crash? or kirby? or spyro? or donkey kong? or bomberman?" I mean the list could go on forever if you wanted to put cartoony characters in, and I just don't think they would mix well with the realistic characters like Sam, Snake, MC, etc. But I suppose you could just put Mario and Sonic in and leave the rest out, and I guess it could work. Whatever.
02/06/2007 (9:59 pm)
Quote:Very interesting game idea. (could almost never happen but still very interesting)
I'm gonna make this game and sell it illegally like drugs.
But seriously though, is this game even possible as an indie project if you didn't sell it? Because if I had the ability and knowledge to make this game, I totally would. I don't care if I made a cent. But I'm just wondering if it's possible with indie engines.....if so, what engine would you use?
Quote:By the way,
Link in magic armour is invicible (at least, in Twilight Princess it is).
Yea, until you run out of rupees.
Quote:And you don't have Sonic on your list.
Yea I think the game would be better without cartoony characters. I mean could you imagine Sonic or Mario having their throat slit by Snake? Or being gutted by Kratos? And then if you have them, people would be like "well where's crash? or kirby? or spyro? or donkey kong? or bomberman?" I mean the list could go on forever if you wanted to put cartoony characters in, and I just don't think they would mix well with the realistic characters like Sam, Snake, MC, etc. But I suppose you could just put Mario and Sonic in and leave the rest out, and I guess it could work. Whatever.
#14
No. I don't think that it is possible as an indie project.
Jeremy: Because if I had the ability and knowledge to make this game, I totally would. I don't care if I made a cent.
Well maybe you don't care about the money, but Microsoft, Sega, Sony, Nintendo, Konami, Capcom... care a lot about it. Actually I think none of these companies would be happy to see their IPs being used in a noncommercial game, and they would stop you very quickly from doing it.
(Wasn't there a indie Halo RTS project that was stopped by Microsoft, because they were making one themselves?) From the Marketing viewpoint this game will never exist...
But why using an existing IP when you can create your own?
02/07/2007 (6:55 am)
Jeremy: But seriously though, is this game even possible as an indie project if you didn't sell it?No. I don't think that it is possible as an indie project.
Jeremy: Because if I had the ability and knowledge to make this game, I totally would. I don't care if I made a cent.
Well maybe you don't care about the money, but Microsoft, Sega, Sony, Nintendo, Konami, Capcom... care a lot about it. Actually I think none of these companies would be happy to see their IPs being used in a noncommercial game, and they would stop you very quickly from doing it.
(Wasn't there a indie Halo RTS project that was stopped by Microsoft, because they were making one themselves?) From the Marketing viewpoint this game will never exist...
But why using an existing IP when you can create your own?
#15
02/07/2007 (10:28 am)
Well, there was Halo Zero, which is free, but a different style of game to Halo.
#16
And yea there was Halo Zero and Halo: Blood Covenant. Both were sidescrollers, and they're both still available to download for free, because they're not making money off em. If it was illegal, Bungie woulda stopped em by now right?
But solely from a technical standpoint, is this game able to be made with indie software?
And creating my own characters is no fun. I wanna see these matchups. And when other people play the game I want them to know the characters.
02/07/2007 (8:31 pm)
But if I'm not making money off of it then it's not illegal.....right?And yea there was Halo Zero and Halo: Blood Covenant. Both were sidescrollers, and they're both still available to download for free, because they're not making money off em. If it was illegal, Bungie woulda stopped em by now right?
But solely from a technical standpoint, is this game able to be made with indie software?
And creating my own characters is no fun. I wanna see these matchups. And when other people play the game I want them to know the characters.
#17
Also, for situations like when Sam grabs Link, those could trigger context-sensitive actions. For example, if Sam did grab Link by the throat, the player could punch in a combo to break free of Sam's grip and temporarily stun him.
02/07/2007 (10:49 pm)
What if Master Chief was an unlockable character? This could possibly add a little more balance to the game, as well as adding replay value. Also, for situations like when Sam grabs Link, those could trigger context-sensitive actions. For example, if Sam did grab Link by the throat, the player could punch in a combo to break free of Sam's grip and temporarily stun him.
#18
It doesn't matter if you make this game for free, you will need to contact the companies and ask for permission.
Don't forget these Game characters are trademarks and are protected by law!
The Game I meant before was Halogen, a Mod for C & C Generals.
The team worked for 3 years on this RTS Mod and in the end Microsoft and Bungie stopped them.
halogen.slipstreamproductions.net
More Info
But any ways I don't think that this project is possible because it will require a great amount of time, funding and energy.
As a one man project? 3D? No way... maybe if it is 2D like a classic Beat'em Up.
02/08/2007 (1:07 am)
@ JeremyIt doesn't matter if you make this game for free, you will need to contact the companies and ask for permission.
Don't forget these Game characters are trademarks and are protected by law!
The Game I meant before was Halogen, a Mod for C & C Generals.
The team worked for 3 years on this RTS Mod and in the end Microsoft and Bungie stopped them.
halogen.slipstreamproductions.net
More Info
But any ways I don't think that this project is possible because it will require a great amount of time, funding and energy.
As a one man project? 3D? No way... maybe if it is 2D like a classic Beat'em Up.
#19
02/08/2007 (9:31 am)
Quote:But solely from a technical standpoint, is this game able to be made with indie software?Definately. The biggest challenge would be to successfully emulate all the controls for the different characters, methinks. Now, if you want GoW graphics, Torque may not be the best choice, but it certainly can do what you've described.
#20
This is a simple principle, but one that is often misunderstood. It is of upmost importance, though, that this be understood by the independant gaming community because it seems like something that comes up quite a bit and it could get you in serious trouble.
02/08/2007 (4:08 pm)
It is absolutely illegal to use anybody's copyrighted material. That goes for songs, quotes from books, trademarks, AND VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS. If you stole the Mona Lisa, but showed it to people for free, it's still STEALING.This is a simple principle, but one that is often misunderstood. It is of upmost importance, though, that this be understood by the independant gaming community because it seems like something that comes up quite a bit and it could get you in serious trouble.
Torque Owner Jeremy
Speaking of weapons and moves, I would want each character to be at almost full power. The player should have choice of the characters weapons and items, or however it's done in that character's game. To use Chief as an example here again, if you pick him you would be able to choose any two (or 3 if you dual wield) weapons before the game starts. So you could pick Sniper and Rocket, or your sword and battle rifle, or whatever. You play as Link you can pick your fire or ice arrows and all that, you get your hookshots, full 20 hearts, maybe a fairy in a bottle, the whole shebang. You play as Samus you got all your canons, visors, screw attacks, morphball moves, everything. Now of course there would be a few tweaks here and there of which weapons and items to allow each character to have, but for the most part I want to see each character almost maxed out.
Also, while I'm sure this game will never be made, it's not entirely impossible. If some billionaire wanted to make this game happen, he could. I mean, if I had billions of dollars, I would pay each company as much as it takes to get the rights for their characters in my game, and then pay to have it made.
So yea, if anybody feels like discussing this, here's some questions:
Do you think this game would succeed even if there were some major balance issues? (like 2 or 3 characters dominating the rest at high level play)
Would you buy this game? And enjoy it?
Do you like this idea? If not, why? What would you do to improve it?
Is this game (or a simple form of it) actually possible to make as a small independent game?
And, if this game was actually made, who do you think would be the best character? Which character would you play as to give you the best chance of winning?
And oh, here's a few characters I'd like to see in the game, I left cartoony characters out. (any other suggestions?)
1. Link
2. Samus
3. Master chief
4. Ryu hayabusa
5. Kratos
6. Solid Snake
7. Simon Belmont
8. Sam Fisher
9. Prince of Persia
10. Megaman X
11. Dante
12. Ryu
13. Liu Kang
14. Sub-zero
15. Scorpion
16. Cloud
17. Sephiroth
18. Ganondorf
19. Joanna Dark
20. Shinobi
21. Nightmare
22. Yoshimitsu
23. Spiderman (gotta have em)