Jail for acts of virtual violence
by mb · in General Discussion · 12/21/2006 (11:58 am) · 21 replies
Anyone else read about this? lol
www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,1969920,00.html
www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,,1969920,00.html
#2
I actually wrote a game a while back (way back) where there was a whole subplot around getting thrown in jail. You could just let your character sit there and do time or try to plan an escape, start a riot, apply for parole. In some ways it was better than the actual game. But I digress...
If you're going to punish people for in-game violence punish the game makers, not players. Eliminate the pushers and you take care of the junkies. If you don't have a gun, you can't shoot it. etc.
On that same note though, it's virtual! Come on! Better there than real life. But then that prompts a whole other argument.
12/21/2006 (12:28 pm)
Couldn't they just lock up the player's character? :-) If my character was forced to spend 12 months in jail before I could actually use him again, I'd be nicer to people!I actually wrote a game a while back (way back) where there was a whole subplot around getting thrown in jail. You could just let your character sit there and do time or try to plan an escape, start a riot, apply for parole. In some ways it was better than the actual game. But I digress...
If you're going to punish people for in-game violence punish the game makers, not players. Eliminate the pushers and you take care of the junkies. If you don't have a gun, you can't shoot it. etc.
On that same note though, it's virtual! Come on! Better there than real life. But then that prompts a whole other argument.
#4
Fansy the Bard would be laughing at this.
12/21/2006 (2:47 pm)
They watched that South Park WOW episode in German WAY too much...Fansy the Bard would be laughing at this.
#5
So whats next, Irish government standing trial for IRA events, Arabic presidents and politicans standing trial for Moslem suicide bombers, African politicans being judged for millitia slaughters, Danish politicans and community leaders being punished for allowing Autonomic youth to smash normal peoples shops and cars in their stampedes......
I so wish that people of this earth would try act as adults taking responsiblities uopn themself, both their own, and those that need help. Instead of shooting with shotguns in random populistic directions cause it looks good in short terms....
And, core germanic litterature tradition have brought a lot of great thinking -beside the allways slapped Nasism littra!
12/21/2006 (2:57 pm)
So instead of standing op to their political responsibility and taking care of thos ehumans that either are spoiled or sure candidates of going nuts. These political retards say that its the geam makers fault that some really wierdo was not discovered and handled before he thought himself the next in line for a beaming up by Scotty!So whats next, Irish government standing trial for IRA events, Arabic presidents and politicans standing trial for Moslem suicide bombers, African politicans being judged for millitia slaughters, Danish politicans and community leaders being punished for allowing Autonomic youth to smash normal peoples shops and cars in their stampedes......
I so wish that people of this earth would try act as adults taking responsiblities uopn themself, both their own, and those that need help. Instead of shooting with shotguns in random populistic directions cause it looks good in short terms....
And, core germanic litterature tradition have brought a lot of great thinking -beside the allways slapped Nasism littra!
#7
...I think you completely missed my point about German literature...
EDIT: Reply clarification
12/21/2006 (3:02 pm)
@Christian S...I think you completely missed my point about German literature...
EDIT: Reply clarification
#8
Where will it end...?
As game developers, it's easy to jump to the defense of games, but there are some pretty worthless games out there that could use a ban (or two). I actually do believe that violent games desensitize people to killing and dying. I'm in no way saying that games are the cause, but I would also like to point out that they usually don't help either... I've never heard of a kid saying, "Counter Strike caused me to think twice about shooting all the kids at school... It saved them!"
The root of the problem is that we live in a world cursed with sin. People don't act "grown up." Parents don't teach their kids what is right and wrong. And dumb, lazy politicians try to fix everything with "one size fits all" legislations instead of trying to come up with something that will actually help. Whether violent games are banned or not doesn't even touch the root of the problem. So it's more of a debate of whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Is it worth it to ban -X- millions of people from buying these games so that 10+ wacko people won't be tempted to go on a shooting rampage? The politicians don't solve anything by doing these kinds of things, they just prove they're under the curse of sin too. They're only trying to make themselves look good and boost popularity when they make these "feel good" legislations. Granted, some politicians may have good motives... But they're still dumb.
Now if you want to know what really desensitizes people to death and killing, just watch the news for a few minutes...
*End rant.*
12/21/2006 (4:04 pm)
Next they need to ban tree limbs, because boys can use those to play "guns/war."Where will it end...?
As game developers, it's easy to jump to the defense of games, but there are some pretty worthless games out there that could use a ban (or two). I actually do believe that violent games desensitize people to killing and dying. I'm in no way saying that games are the cause, but I would also like to point out that they usually don't help either... I've never heard of a kid saying, "Counter Strike caused me to think twice about shooting all the kids at school... It saved them!"
The root of the problem is that we live in a world cursed with sin. People don't act "grown up." Parents don't teach their kids what is right and wrong. And dumb, lazy politicians try to fix everything with "one size fits all" legislations instead of trying to come up with something that will actually help. Whether violent games are banned or not doesn't even touch the root of the problem. So it's more of a debate of whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Is it worth it to ban -X- millions of people from buying these games so that 10+ wacko people won't be tempted to go on a shooting rampage? The politicians don't solve anything by doing these kinds of things, they just prove they're under the curse of sin too. They're only trying to make themselves look good and boost popularity when they make these "feel good" legislations. Granted, some politicians may have good motives... But they're still dumb.
Now if you want to know what really desensitizes people to death and killing, just watch the news for a few minutes...
*End rant.*
#9
This is just another example of the ages old "somebody needs to take the blame, but the person who did it can't take the blame!" problem. These politicians think that they HAVE to punnish somebody, so the only way they can think of is to pass laws and bills suppressing people's freedom(note - I have no idea what can of liberties Germans are given).
But don't worry! 20 years from now the generation that is in office will be the generation that grew up playing Quake and Halo. So, do not fear Game Industrialists(wow, I made up a word)! The future is not bleak!
And as a slighty edited quote from "The Aviator"...."video games are the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future..." (Note - he really said it many more times then that...I believe he went insane again in that scene, if I remember right...)
-Okashira
12/21/2006 (6:38 pm)
I personally think it is tainting the memory of the people that have been killed by these pyschos. I mean, do you really think that the countless people that have been killed in school shootings would want everything blamed on ######## game makers whose games they probably played? Or do you think they would want the pyscho(s) that walked into their school and shot them cold-blooded?This is just another example of the ages old "somebody needs to take the blame, but the person who did it can't take the blame!" problem. These politicians think that they HAVE to punnish somebody, so the only way they can think of is to pass laws and bills suppressing people's freedom(note - I have no idea what can of liberties Germans are given).
But don't worry! 20 years from now the generation that is in office will be the generation that grew up playing Quake and Halo. So, do not fear Game Industrialists(wow, I made up a word)! The future is not bleak!
And as a slighty edited quote from "The Aviator"...."video games are the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future... the way of the future..." (Note - he really said it many more times then that...I believe he went insane again in that scene, if I remember right...)
-Okashira
#10
How bout that lawsuit?
lol..
12/21/2006 (7:18 pm)
Just wait till the Army is using remote Mech's in a few years. Pressing the mouse REALLY fires a .50 caliber.How bout that lawsuit?
lol..
#11
12/21/2006 (7:33 pm)
"Hey Mr. Armyman! You killed someone with a Wireless Logitech GX53329 Mouse with a built-in laser pointer! Grand Theft Auto made you do it, didn't it?"
#12
12/22/2006 (7:20 am)
I'd sue logitech for creating killing machines.
#13
Acording to what ive read on these forums, and what ive seen, Games dont reflect upon society nearly as much as society reflects on games. I personally dont care for for shooters, or Mortal Kombat style games. Final Fantasy, and RPG's of the like are my thing. Stragity games are an all time fav. (and yes i play chess, but not online .. for some reason ..).
Now although i chose not to play 'overly voilent' games, (RPG's have violence, but violence is not the theme of the game), I still go through my typical rage when someone does something that irritates me. You know, 5 ignorant people decide to have a get together right in the middle of a store isle. Someone double parks and you cant get around them due to trafic. Somone insults my wife and im forced to redefine pain for them.
And not just me, Our civilization has grown colder, and more volital. Insensitive to others feelings, and at the same time, blowing off in a massave show of emotion over something dumb. School shootings, Drive by's, Gang Wars.
Video games do not create this kind of violence. People do. People incapable of controling them selves. People that have been taught that killing the person that somehow wronged you is the only way to get your self respect back. In order to reclaim your stature as a person, you must belittle the one who knocked you down in the first place.
Violent games have been an outlet for people of all ages for some time now. The ability to better control your envirnment though a hellish firefight, your still in control, because you've played that level before, and you know exactly whats going to happen. THERE TO THE LEFT, SHOOT THE OIL DRUMS! 5 MORE TOATY! HAZAH!
Life is an uncontrolable atmosphere for just about everyone. We are people, we interact with each other, through those interactions we help, or hurt one another. After one of these events has taken place, another will follow, an effect from one who has been helped or hurt.
We can blame these effect on a game? I dont think so. To say that a shooting occured because someone gets a thrill from violence spawned from an interest in gaming is silly. I own firearms, And i can testify there is a HUGE difference between a nintendo zapper, and .38. and Im NOT talking about their weight and muzzle velocity.
You point a gun at someone, you know that the next few seconds of your life is going to drasticly change everything. This is a huge amount of information to suddenly enter your brain. Although you may have been pissed when you pulled the thing, the greater majority of people dont have the sand to pull the trigger.
The few that do, are just plain sick.
Violent games like GTA, Street side beat downs do not occur for fun, they are usualy part of something else, be it robery, turf war, drugs, or respect. the act is always justified beyond 'wowie that was cool!' Justified in the criminal mind i should say.
So why are these games so popular? Why were keds 30 years ago?
My theory:
trends and fad tend to come and go. There will always be purists around that never let a genre die, but in time we will move away from games like Halo. and into something else. The Blaming Games is mearly a turn-card on a criminal trial a few years ago where some guy .. killed someone... i dont remember the details. He blamed it on a TV show he saw. He walked away from it. This is just the modern 'TV show'
Sorry if this is a bit scattered, I have a hard time keeping thoughts in one paragraph.
--Keeps
12/23/2006 (7:04 am)
My optical mouse is dangerous, what if i shine it in my wifes eye??? *pauses to do exactly that ... *Acording to what ive read on these forums, and what ive seen, Games dont reflect upon society nearly as much as society reflects on games. I personally dont care for for shooters, or Mortal Kombat style games. Final Fantasy, and RPG's of the like are my thing. Stragity games are an all time fav. (and yes i play chess, but not online .. for some reason ..).
Now although i chose not to play 'overly voilent' games, (RPG's have violence, but violence is not the theme of the game), I still go through my typical rage when someone does something that irritates me. You know, 5 ignorant people decide to have a get together right in the middle of a store isle. Someone double parks and you cant get around them due to trafic. Somone insults my wife and im forced to redefine pain for them.
And not just me, Our civilization has grown colder, and more volital. Insensitive to others feelings, and at the same time, blowing off in a massave show of emotion over something dumb. School shootings, Drive by's, Gang Wars.
Video games do not create this kind of violence. People do. People incapable of controling them selves. People that have been taught that killing the person that somehow wronged you is the only way to get your self respect back. In order to reclaim your stature as a person, you must belittle the one who knocked you down in the first place.
Violent games have been an outlet for people of all ages for some time now. The ability to better control your envirnment though a hellish firefight, your still in control, because you've played that level before, and you know exactly whats going to happen. THERE TO THE LEFT, SHOOT THE OIL DRUMS! 5 MORE TOATY! HAZAH!
Life is an uncontrolable atmosphere for just about everyone. We are people, we interact with each other, through those interactions we help, or hurt one another. After one of these events has taken place, another will follow, an effect from one who has been helped or hurt.
We can blame these effect on a game? I dont think so. To say that a shooting occured because someone gets a thrill from violence spawned from an interest in gaming is silly. I own firearms, And i can testify there is a HUGE difference between a nintendo zapper, and .38. and Im NOT talking about their weight and muzzle velocity.
You point a gun at someone, you know that the next few seconds of your life is going to drasticly change everything. This is a huge amount of information to suddenly enter your brain. Although you may have been pissed when you pulled the thing, the greater majority of people dont have the sand to pull the trigger.
The few that do, are just plain sick.
Violent games like GTA, Street side beat downs do not occur for fun, they are usualy part of something else, be it robery, turf war, drugs, or respect. the act is always justified beyond 'wowie that was cool!' Justified in the criminal mind i should say.
So why are these games so popular? Why were keds 30 years ago?
My theory:
trends and fad tend to come and go. There will always be purists around that never let a genre die, but in time we will move away from games like Halo. and into something else. The Blaming Games is mearly a turn-card on a criminal trial a few years ago where some guy .. killed someone... i dont remember the details. He blamed it on a TV show he saw. He walked away from it. This is just the modern 'TV show'
Sorry if this is a bit scattered, I have a hard time keeping thoughts in one paragraph.
--Keeps
#14
kids who grow up in households where they witness domestic violence, even if they don't directly receive it, have a way, way elevated chance of engaging in domestic violence themselves when they grow up.
pinning down the exact cause & effect relationship there is a big task, and one for universities, not gaming forums, but it's food for thought, neh ?
12/23/2006 (7:48 am)
I'm just going to make one note here:kids who grow up in households where they witness domestic violence, even if they don't directly receive it, have a way, way elevated chance of engaging in domestic violence themselves when they grow up.
pinning down the exact cause & effect relationship there is a big task, and one for universities, not gaming forums, but it's food for thought, neh ?
#15
If this passed you could get thrown in jail for downloading and playing the free demo of our Mature game Vigil: Blood Bitterness. You crucify and eat your brother in the third act, I think that would hold up in court as "cruel violence."
12/26/2006 (10:42 am)
Quote:Politicians in Bavaria and Lower Saxony have proposed a new offence that will punish "cruel violence on humans or human-looking characters" inside games.
If this passed you could get thrown in jail for downloading and playing the free demo of our Mature game Vigil: Blood Bitterness. You crucify and eat your brother in the third act, I think that would hold up in court as "cruel violence."
#16
Can we at least see what the actual legislation is, rather than filtered through some news person in another country? Or is that asking too much?
Sheesh. I even make my full time living off video game tech. Taking deep breaths and learning more information is always a good thing.
12/26/2006 (11:32 am)
You guys knee-jerk way too much about video games. It's like it's some Holy Grail, or something.Can we at least see what the actual legislation is, rather than filtered through some news person in another country? Or is that asking too much?
Sheesh. I even make my full time living off video game tech. Taking deep breaths and learning more information is always a good thing.
#17
12/26/2006 (2:04 pm)
This is the interweb. There are no rational discussions! Only knee-jerk reactions.
#19
Also reminds me of Japan sensoring Gears of War when...well...have you seen half of the anime out there? I'm not even gonna talk about their own Resident Evil 4.
12/26/2006 (6:03 pm)
This reminds me of the law they are trying to pass about home theatres. Anyone who doesn't register their theatre (a couch, and a 29" or bigger TV with sterio sound) with a motion sensor and a $50 registration fee will get a fine and face possible jail time. Maybe someone has heard about this and can fill in what I missed but it's pretty rediculous. Just like this.Also reminds me of Japan sensoring Gears of War when...well...have you seen half of the anime out there? I'm not even gonna talk about their own Resident Evil 4.
#20
12/27/2006 (3:47 am)
Jail time for making or playing a violent video game?! That's one step from banning sex or free speech. It's a scary as hell thing. Play a violent video game and go to jail and get gang ass raped for it. That's just swell. 
Associate David Montgomery-Blake
David MontgomeryBlake
...Like the core of the German literary tradition...