First impression
by Rivage · in Torque X 2D · 12/12/2006 (2:38 am) · 20 replies
Hi,
Everythink is up studio express 2005, XNA + redist, TGB and Torque X in another folder (D:\TGB\ & D:\TorqueX\), i've install the pro version to unlock TorqueX, templates are present inside studio express.
Okay i load the TorqueCombat template, build a release version : The game is working.
1) Now i load the project inside the TorqueX builder editor and every Materials, particles, tilesmap, etc. "block" are gray, no preview nor animations inside just gray !
Also there is nothing on the scene and i can't load any level since the format isn't the same (cs != txscene).
I didn't read all the new doc about TorqueX sorry if i miss something important.
2) Also T2dpath isn't supported by TorqueX right now. Is there any other features missing ?
3) Importing our game to TorqueX mean's rewrite torqueScript to C# ?
4) Is features promised in TorqueX will be supported too with TGB ? (don't think so since .net & XNA redist isn't officialy ported to mac and Linux)
Thanks
Everythink is up studio express 2005, XNA + redist, TGB and Torque X in another folder (D:\TGB\ & D:\TorqueX\), i've install the pro version to unlock TorqueX, templates are present inside studio express.
Okay i load the TorqueCombat template, build a release version : The game is working.
1) Now i load the project inside the TorqueX builder editor and every Materials, particles, tilesmap, etc. "block" are gray, no preview nor animations inside just gray !
Also there is nothing on the scene and i can't load any level since the format isn't the same (cs != txscene).
I didn't read all the new doc about TorqueX sorry if i miss something important.
2) Also T2dpath isn't supported by TorqueX right now. Is there any other features missing ?
3) Importing our game to TorqueX mean's rewrite torqueScript to C# ?
4) Is features promised in TorqueX will be supported too with TGB ? (don't think so since .net & XNA redist isn't officialy ported to mac and Linux)
Thanks
About the author
Leadwerks
#2
In fact it's not a question of platform, i rather prefer an open engine as far as possible and well... If TorqueX give this opportunity this would be a plus (even if it's only around FX).
This will depends on bugs and difficulties to pass from torqueScript to C#.
12/12/2006 (1:25 pm)
Thanks for the answer :)In fact it's not a question of platform, i rather prefer an open engine as far as possible and well... If TorqueX give this opportunity this would be a plus (even if it's only around FX).
This will depends on bugs and difficulties to pass from torqueScript to C#.
#3
12/12/2006 (2:44 pm)
If by "open engine" you mean "give me the source code", then "Torque X Pro" for $150 is what you are looking for. It's not ready yet, but will include the C# and build projects to build your own complete version of the engine from the source. If all you want to do is look at the source, but not monkey with it, you can already do that today with tools available to the .NET world, such as Reflector. This gives you insight, but does not eliminate the importance or need for a PRO offering with "Source Included".
#4
12/13/2006 (2:52 am)
No it's not what i intend with "open engine" is rather having a very large amount of control (much more than TGB right now) on your objects, scenes and program.
#5
For my part, I feel like it's too much for me, TS seems far more simple and straightforward.
I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out how to "script" in C#.
The lack of specific tutorials for Torque X is disturbing too. And the XNA ones are not really suited for this :/
Is there anything planned for TorqueScripter-friendly tutorials ?
12/13/2006 (2:58 am)
The control over Torque X is far more large than with TGB, since the game script is in C#.For my part, I feel like it's too much for me, TS seems far more simple and straightforward.
I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out how to "script" in C#.
The lack of specific tutorials for Torque X is disturbing too. And the XNA ones are not really suited for this :/
Is there anything planned for TorqueScripter-friendly tutorials ?
#6
By the way i don't find TorqueX very handy for the moment...
12/13/2006 (11:06 am)
Here is a snapshot of the problem
By the way i don't find TorqueX very handy for the moment...
#7
As for examples and tutorials, the thing just released and we weren't allowed to make anything while it was in closed beta due to NDAs. Once GG gets a TXE section up for TDN (*wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*) then you'll start seeing more and more things added.
12/13/2006 (12:56 pm)
You need to remember a couple key factors here. First, TXE is free. Second, it's in it's infancy. Finally, it's in C#. The sky is the limit.As for examples and tutorials, the thing just released and we weren't allowed to make anything while it was in closed beta due to NDAs. Once GG gets a TXE section up for TDN (*wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*) then you'll start seeing more and more things added.
#8
I don't care of the platform or anythink pipeling, just need to write a good prototype.
TorqueX look really harder than TGB though... Messy and maybe full of bugs like every beta RC.
Thanks ;)
12/13/2006 (4:00 pm)
I'm in a stage where i still need to handle correctly TGB and know nothing of XNA and TorqueX (but have knowledge of C#). I can only wait 1 month more before begenning to submit a project to someone so at your advices is it preferable to stick with TGB or it is better to try to learn TorqueX since there will probably be more support for this new engine ?I don't care of the platform or anythink pipeling, just need to write a good prototype.
TorqueX look really harder than TGB though... Messy and maybe full of bugs like every beta RC.
Thanks ;)
#9
12/13/2006 (6:48 pm)
I can't answer that for you. I've got a 2D game that I'm going to build with TXE over the next 30 days. Who's got the stop watch?
#10
Regarding the comment: "I don't find TorqueX very handy at the moment", simply points to your lack of experience with the product--it's less than a week old! GG has done an AMAZING amount of work over the past year and comments like these really dismiss and disrespect their hard work. Show a little respect when it's your naiveness that's at fault. :-)
12/13/2006 (10:41 pm)
If you are in a time crunch, and in particular if you need to deploy this to a "customer", then you would be wise to go with a shipped and stable product like TGB. TorqueX is bleeding edge and admittedly "Open Beta" by the Garage Games crew.Regarding the comment: "I don't find TorqueX very handy at the moment", simply points to your lack of experience with the product--it's less than a week old! GG has done an AMAZING amount of work over the past year and comments like these really dismiss and disrespect their hard work. Show a little respect when it's your naiveness that's at fault. :-)
#11
Can i ask you why you need to port your game to TorqueX ? Is there features / control needs ? Or is this for the Xbox360 ?
@ Jason
What do you want me to answer "TGB BOY" fan lol ? It's still a beta and all comments are usefull. We can't all be "elite" you know. By the way any technical work oriented to customers need ergonomic overview. I will report problems that I have encounter as a graphic designer not as a programing guru.
12/14/2006 (3:58 am)
@ JonathonCan i ask you why you need to port your game to TorqueX ? Is there features / control needs ? Or is this for the Xbox360 ?
@ Jason
What do you want me to answer "TGB BOY" fan lol ? It's still a beta and all comments are usefull. We can't all be "elite" you know. By the way any technical work oriented to customers need ergonomic overview. I will report problems that I have encounter as a graphic designer not as a programing guru.
#12
12/14/2006 (7:20 am)
@Rivage - I'm not porting anything, I'm building from scratch. I'm doing it because I can code a game in C# 3 times as fast as the typical programmer can in C/C++. Although I do like the potential of the XBox360 development options, I'm more excited about XNA/TXE for PC development.
#13
I love the Game Screen Editor in both cases. With TGB, I love the ease of Scripting and tutorials on how to script, newbies get just about everything they need. With Torque X, someone new to programming, however is going to gasp trying to figure out how to code their game idea in C# without having more examples. I imagine since its so new, they will be coming later.
Thankfully I have lots of experience with C# and can handle it. However my JuggleNuts project will not be moved quickly to Torque X since its TGB script is not C# obviously and I don't want to spend the time porting. I'd rather make more games in TGB. I think it will take a lot longer to create a game using Torque X than using TGB unless Torque X adds the scripting feature. C# is very lengthy to read, and write, whereas you can get right to it in TGB, making the game.
01/15/2007 (5:18 pm)
Well I did the whole setup Torque X and Game Studio Express after owning/working with TGB prior. Went throught the tutorials, played around etc. My goal was to quickly deploy my TGB project JuggleNuts, to the Xbox 360 Here's my 2 cents. I love the Game Screen Editor in both cases. With TGB, I love the ease of Scripting and tutorials on how to script, newbies get just about everything they need. With Torque X, someone new to programming, however is going to gasp trying to figure out how to code their game idea in C# without having more examples. I imagine since its so new, they will be coming later.
Thankfully I have lots of experience with C# and can handle it. However my JuggleNuts project will not be moved quickly to Torque X since its TGB script is not C# obviously and I don't want to spend the time porting. I'd rather make more games in TGB. I think it will take a lot longer to create a game using Torque X than using TGB unless Torque X adds the scripting feature. C# is very lengthy to read, and write, whereas you can get right to it in TGB, making the game.
#14
I'd put up a challenge to build a game in TGB using TS faster than I could build the same game in TXE except I"m too busy with IMGDC and my current TXE game to compete.
C# is by FAR easier to work with than C++. C# is by FAR easier to learn than TorqueScript. C# is by FAR more extensible and capable than TGB + TS.
C# is in no way "lengthy" to read or to write. I'm curious as to how much experience you have in it? I'm not saying that to flame you, but you are the very first .net developer I've ever heard say C# was lengthy to read or write in.
Edit: I bet you money that TankBuster was extremely easy to port to TXE from TGB! Devs can we get a what what?
01/15/2007 (6:50 pm)
@Mark - I'm quite surprised and completely disagree with the following statement:Quote:I think it will take a lot longer to create a game using Torque X than using TGB unless Torque X adds the scripting feature. C# is very lengthy to read, and write, whereas you can get right to it in TGB, making the game.
I'd put up a challenge to build a game in TGB using TS faster than I could build the same game in TXE except I"m too busy with IMGDC and my current TXE game to compete.
C# is by FAR easier to work with than C++. C# is by FAR easier to learn than TorqueScript. C# is by FAR more extensible and capable than TGB + TS.
C# is in no way "lengthy" to read or to write. I'm curious as to how much experience you have in it? I'm not saying that to flame you, but you are the very first .net developer I've ever heard say C# was lengthy to read or write in.
Edit: I bet you money that TankBuster was extremely easy to port to TXE from TGB! Devs can we get a what what?
#15
01/15/2007 (9:07 pm)
You're allowed to disagree ;) Thanks for letting us know.
#16
Get set!
ready!!
go !!!
What ??
01/16/2007 (6:27 am)
Ok, both of you build a locoroco game with open source hahaha :DGet set!
ready!!
go !!!
What ??
#17
Honestly, I don't know. I say that because as features are added and changed, all the demos have to be rewritten to use them (or at least work with them, if necessary). In fact, I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that Tank Buster was ported to XNA for demo purposes first, before it was ported to Torque X.
Either way, this is a silly argument. Might as well go head-to-head about what flavor of ice cream is the coolest. TorqueScript has its limitations (which are all but shattered in future TGB releases BTW.. ), but so does C#. On average, my C# code is a little longer than my TS, but it's also a much better environment to define complex class hierarchies in. It's a tossup for me. I like both, and at this point can work at pretty much the same speed in either.
01/22/2007 (8:59 am)
As far as I know, Tank Buster is still being ported! ;)Honestly, I don't know. I say that because as features are added and changed, all the demos have to be rewritten to use them (or at least work with them, if necessary). In fact, I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that Tank Buster was ported to XNA for demo purposes first, before it was ported to Torque X.
Either way, this is a silly argument. Might as well go head-to-head about what flavor of ice cream is the coolest. TorqueScript has its limitations (which are all but shattered in future TGB releases BTW.. ), but so does C#. On average, my C# code is a little longer than my TS, but it's also a much better environment to define complex class hierarchies in. It's a tossup for me. I like both, and at this point can work at pretty much the same speed in either.
#18
01/22/2007 (9:48 am)
Breyer's Natural Vanilla is clearly superior to all other ice creams in existence. If you say Umpqua anything I will stab you in the jaw. Just meet me in the lobby after the show. I'll be the guy stabbing jaws...
#19
Top all time games next? Missile Command, hands down, but I guess we're a lil off topic eh?
01/22/2007 (10:32 am)
Publix Chocolate Trinity might be a strong contender though. Rich chocolate, Dark Hard Fudge Swirl, and some other kind of chocolate to die for IMHO.Top all time games next? Missile Command, hands down, but I guess we're a lil off topic eh?
#20
In the famous words of my 8 year old playing counter strike: "C# for the win biotches!" (ok, so he says dishmal instead of C#, but close enough)
01/22/2007 (12:00 pm)
This isn't the typical "what's better, intel vs amd?" argument though. Torsion is incredible, but in no way as intuitive and 'do it for you' as vs.net 2005. I type maybe 1/3 if not less of the things I actually need and the rest I just hit 'tab' and it's there. You may write a few extra lines doing something in C# versus TorqueScript, but those lines take less time to write than the one in TS is my point.In the famous words of my 8 year old playing counter strike: "C# for the win biotches!" (ok, so he says dishmal instead of C#, but close enough)
Torque Owner Jason Cahill
Default Studio Name
3) Yes. There is no TorqueScript in TorqueX. You have to rewrite your code in C#.
4) There are features in TorqueX (like shaders) that are unlikely to ever be in TGB. If you want Mac and Linux (so you can attract all 3 gamers on those platforms), then stick with TGB. If you want to attract every Windows and Xbox 360 gamer, then it's time to move to TorqueX.