Why Torque is not always the better? (answered here)

#21 I can also understand that you want better and more consistent documentation from GG about their exporters (as well as perhaps internal modeling exporters for low-cost or free engines). The thing is that unless GG took over the exporters, they are not liable for the documentation. The documentation for the Max exporter makes sense to Max professionals, though not necessarily to people who are learning Max as well as trying to learn Torque. After all, Max is a big,scary app with a ton of features, confusing interface (to new users), and a million ways to do everything so that you can tailor it to your workflow. It is confusing if you are learning two things at once. Most things are hard if you are learning multiple things at once. People using Lawmaker and Max will be in the same boat. Using Blitz3D, however, they have an excellent exporter set. You have to build your engine from scratch, but you have excellent art tools to work with. And if GG did take over the exporters, they would have to hire someone (or a couple someones) to gain proficiency with the applications and the exporter code.

Anton's post about Milkshape (in the other topic) having an excellent exporter was of extreme interest to me, but it is also consistent with the way that Milkshape has rolled since its inception. It was made to be a modeling mod tool with a wide-variety of formats. That is its key. Unwrap 3D is similar in that many people do not care about its UV features...they care about converting file formats with it.

Perhaps if Shaper were cross-platform (or GG dropped Mac support), it could be included with the engine. Torsion or Codeweaver could be as well, though they are already free downloads and I'm not quite sure what the benefit of increasing the installer size would be when you can already download them for free. I'm a huge fan of UV painting apps. I love BodyPaint, though I have found a new best friend in Modo. I love that app. Polysoup is on its way, and if you haven't seen the FPS environment pack from Todd Pickens, it is somewhat already in TGE. You just have to be conscious of your view culling and collisions and such. Ramen Sama has been using Lightwave for his interiors for a while, always being conscious of what he is doing and testing to make sure that it works in-engine reliably. But I would rather use Lightwave with Dave Wyand's exporter than Shaper or DeleD. Not because they are bad tools (far from it), but because I know Lightwave and use it.

#22 I don't agree even with it not being oriented towards newbies...

Take this TDN article, for example. It introduces quite a few concepts, like terrain editing, GUI editing and some basic scripting.

Next, one of the things Berserk said isn't documented is DTS nodes. Here's a quote:

Quote:
- DTS noeds listing
lists all the DTS supported nodes, grouping them in categoryes like:
- Player
- wheeledVehicle
- hoverVehicle
- flyingVehicle
and common nodes to all kind of DTSs, like col-#, bounding boxes and others.

Take a look at this document. Granted, it's not on the Garage Games website, but how did I find it? Well, from TDN, home page I clicked on TGE Home, then For Beginners, then Introduction to Torque. That's the previous link. After reading that, I went back a page, then clicked on Beginner Overview. That page (after explaining how important the previous page is) indicated the next steps.

One of those steps is "Tutorials". Click on that. Next, click on Official Tutorials. Next, click on DTS: Player Models, Vehicles, and Weapons, and the fourth. The fourth item down is the DTS node listing, which is a very well-written node description.

Another thing he said was the Torque Scripting isn't documented.... bologna. Berserk is mistakenly trying to use the Doxygen documentation to figure out scripting, and that's not what it should be used for. Doxygen documentation is an overview of the engine at the 10,000 meter level.

For the real documentation, go back to TDN, click on TGE Home, click on For Scripters, then there's more documentation you'll ever need, including a complete Command Reference and Function Reference.

For Blender modeling, again, start at TDN, click on TGE Home, click on For Artists, then click on DTS. The second link is yet another reference to the complete node listing. Scroll down a bit and you'll see the Blender specific stuff. Downloading and Installing (which I followed and it worked perfectly), a quick Overview of the exporter, then the next link, Creating a Simple Shape is an excellent step-by-step document on how to create a simple shape and export it. And more importantly, the link down at the bottom of that page you'll find a link that takes you to 8 video tutorials, including creating, animating and exporting and writing the required scripts.

What more do you want?!?

Like I've said several times... there is plenty of documentation, it's well organized, easily accessible and complete. It doesn't take a genius to find the documentation because it's pretty much all there in TDN, at least for beginners.

Once you've read / watched all of the tutorials both in TDN and on the Resources page and you've actually followed through and implemented the tutorials, you should understand enough that you can create your own game, albeit it's not going to be a ground-breaking change the face of the gaming world type of game.

For something like that, you have to look within yourself for that resource, because you're not going to find it anywhere else. Either you have it or you don't.

#23 Despite my trend, I'll make this short and to the point:

I've never had problems getting documentation or help on a feature for TGE. NEVER
I can export 3D models for players, objects and weapons without a problem.
I can create interiors and export them to TGE format.
I can create levels using WorldEditor, and game play using documentation and Torque Script.

So, if documentation sucks and the art pipeline is broken, how can I do all of that? If you count back-to-back development time with Torque, I probably only have 1.5 years of experience with the engine.

Finally, though a little off topic, what makes my choice between Unreal Engine 2 and TGE? To get source code, distribution rights, and sale rights using UE2, I would have to fork out $350,000. Definitely a no brainer.

#24 Torque 1.5, Torque: Advanced, Torque Game Builder, TorqueX, Torque Developer Network, Content Packs, GG Website and Community, IGDC, Great Game Experiment, and more... um, GG rocks!

I am so stoked!!!! :)

2007

#25 .

#26 .

#27

Quote:
I can really not tollerate your arrogance saying you had 3D models exported but not talking about what package do you use, what problems have you encountered and how much you payd for getting these results, other than why whatever price should really be better than free.

No arrogance implied. Unless I directly say so, I don't express sarcasm, arrogance, or malice in my posts. Sorry for the miscommunication and lack of explanation on my art pipeline experience.

• Modeling Programs I've used: Maya, Max, and Milkshape[li]Other art tools I've used: Quark, WorldEditor, and L3DT[li]I have used Maya2DTS and Max2DTS, as well as map2dif[li]All exporters and plugins I've used have either been provided free of charge, or I programmed them myself[li]Problems I've encountered using any of the aforementioned tools: programs crashed after launching an application or using an exporter before reading documentation, I was once using a defective laptop that couldn't handle some of my graphical needs to develop on, and finally, I would enter the wrong search criteria when searching for information I needed, resulting in the need to search further to locate the resources or documentation.

Hope that clears up my my lack of explanation in my previous post.

#28 For Blender tutorials, if you've already done the "simple" tutorial, check out the advanced one.

There are four links listed at the top of that page. Skim through them all, but this one is the most important. If you don't get this one done from beginning to end, you're going to have a tough time finishing the rest of the advanced tutorial.

Blender is tough to learn. It took me two times going through this tutorial before I was comfortable with it. That doesn't make it bad, just like Torque. They're both tough to learn, but like I said, the documentation and tutorials are complete. You just have to do them... and I mean do them, don't just read them.

I started learning Blender about the same time you joined GG. Sure, I had a few hiccups here and there, but they were all mistakes on my part, not a lack of documentation. I wouldn't say I'm a Pro now, by any means, but at this point I'm good enough at it that I can make anything I want and it generally looks pretty good.

Same thing goes with Quark... I've gotta run, but if you want later I can post some more links for Quark, too... but honestly, just walk through TDN again using the links... don't use the search function yet... that's only for when you know it and you're needing to use TDN as a reference guide.

#29 @David Blake

Wow. Perfect explanations. You said what i was trying to say.

@Berserk

What does pacific mean? Does it mean a peaceful discussion?