Building a Torque Dream Machine...
by Jack Stone · in General Discussion · 10/27/2006 (10:09 am) · 14 replies
I'm looking to buy a new high-end computer in the next few days, and since all I do is work with TSE, I want to ask around to see what components Torque likes best.
Since i'm a student, It has to be a laptop, so that limits my choices of hardware considerably.
The main decision is whether to get a dual core processor like the core2, and stick with one GFX card, or go with SLI and make do with a single core CPU like the Turion.
I'm thinking its probably better to go with SLI, since TSE isnt multithreaded, so wouldnt really benefit from a dual core CPU, and my game-in-progress will have a lot of polys on screen (mainly trees and foliage, I need realistic forests) so 2 512 mb cards could come in handy.
Only problem though is that a single core CPU might not be able to send data to 2 cards fast enough to maximise their potential, causing a bottleneck, and didnt I read somewhere that atlas does in fact operate on a seperate thread?
The subject of Atlas brings me to my next question. How exactly does atlas page its data? Does it primarily use the computers RAM, or the Hard Disk? I'm going to buy as much RAM as I can, probably no more than 2 GB's, but Im still undecided about the Hard Disk.
I was going to go for RAID 1 to protect my data, but with a slow laptop drive, it could cause lag, especially if Atlas needs a fast hard disk for its paging.
Would it be better to go for a RAID0 array of fast, probably low capacity hard disks, and have an external backup with a RAID1 array, or just put 2 high capacity, low speed drives in the machine, in RAID1?
Since I'm a one-man-team, Ill be creating art as well as programming, but from what I hear, the quadro line of cards are really only beneficial for shader development, and computer aided design (extra error checking and precision) and would actually be less efficient for TSE than a geforce, is this correct?
Basically, Im asking people who know more about how TSE works than I do to reccommend which combinations of components would be best suited for developing with TSE.
The main two machines I'm trying to choose between are:
An Alienware Aurora ALX with 2 512MB Geforce 7900 GTX's, and a Turion ML44 2.4ghz, 2 7,200 RPM drives in RAID0 (100GB each), with an external RAID1 backup, or:
VoodooPC envy U709 with Athlon X2 4600+ dual core, single 7900 GTX 512mb, and 2 Seagate 7,200 Rpm drives in RAID0. (With an external RAID1 backup)
Theres also an Alienware with a 256MB geforce 7900, with RAID1 and an FX60 that I was considering.
Both machines have 2GB's of memory, the Aurora ALX has a 19 inch screen, the other two have 17 inch screens.
Thanks for any advice,
JS
Since i'm a student, It has to be a laptop, so that limits my choices of hardware considerably.
The main decision is whether to get a dual core processor like the core2, and stick with one GFX card, or go with SLI and make do with a single core CPU like the Turion.
I'm thinking its probably better to go with SLI, since TSE isnt multithreaded, so wouldnt really benefit from a dual core CPU, and my game-in-progress will have a lot of polys on screen (mainly trees and foliage, I need realistic forests) so 2 512 mb cards could come in handy.
Only problem though is that a single core CPU might not be able to send data to 2 cards fast enough to maximise their potential, causing a bottleneck, and didnt I read somewhere that atlas does in fact operate on a seperate thread?
The subject of Atlas brings me to my next question. How exactly does atlas page its data? Does it primarily use the computers RAM, or the Hard Disk? I'm going to buy as much RAM as I can, probably no more than 2 GB's, but Im still undecided about the Hard Disk.
I was going to go for RAID 1 to protect my data, but with a slow laptop drive, it could cause lag, especially if Atlas needs a fast hard disk for its paging.
Would it be better to go for a RAID0 array of fast, probably low capacity hard disks, and have an external backup with a RAID1 array, or just put 2 high capacity, low speed drives in the machine, in RAID1?
Since I'm a one-man-team, Ill be creating art as well as programming, but from what I hear, the quadro line of cards are really only beneficial for shader development, and computer aided design (extra error checking and precision) and would actually be less efficient for TSE than a geforce, is this correct?
Basically, Im asking people who know more about how TSE works than I do to reccommend which combinations of components would be best suited for developing with TSE.
The main two machines I'm trying to choose between are:
An Alienware Aurora ALX with 2 512MB Geforce 7900 GTX's, and a Turion ML44 2.4ghz, 2 7,200 RPM drives in RAID0 (100GB each), with an external RAID1 backup, or:
VoodooPC envy U709 with Athlon X2 4600+ dual core, single 7900 GTX 512mb, and 2 Seagate 7,200 Rpm drives in RAID0. (With an external RAID1 backup)
Theres also an Alienware with a 256MB geforce 7900, with RAID1 and an FX60 that I was considering.
Both machines have 2GB's of memory, the Aurora ALX has a 19 inch screen, the other two have 17 inch screens.
Thanks for any advice,
JS
#2
I would recommend something like a Dell M1210, which has slower graphics, but still does all the nice shader stuff -- and it's only a few pounds.
Also look at the Dell M1710; it's reasonable value for the money, and is going to do well with high-end graphics.
10/27/2006 (11:39 am)
If you're in college, you're going to carry this around with you to take notes in class.I would recommend something like a Dell M1210, which has slower graphics, but still does all the nice shader stuff -- and it's only a few pounds.
Also look at the Dell M1710; it's reasonable value for the money, and is going to do well with high-end graphics.
#3
10/27/2006 (1:12 pm)
I use one of the older Ferrari Laptops, and they work great for TSE.
#4
Regardless, check out the message boards at the aforementioned site, they offer reviews for several different brands and it's a pretty good community to fall back on for technical support. Regardless of the Notebook you buy.
10/27/2006 (4:15 pm)
If you're interested in a high end laptop, check out Sager. I've purchased several from a distributer called PCTorque, and I'd reccomend them heartily. www.pctorque.com. The manufacturer for a lot of those high end laptops, "most I've seen" is Clevo. Sager, alienware and a few others just rebrand them. Sagers cost less due to a different marketing strategy, and in my opinion offer better service through their distributers.Regardless, check out the message boards at the aforementioned site, they offer reviews for several different brands and it's a pretty good community to fall back on for technical support. Regardless of the Notebook you buy.
#5
I own the lowest end (G35-AV600), but I'm lusting after the new AV660. It already has the 2GB RAM, plus it has an NVIDIA Go 7600... very nice.
www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?coid=-30600&seg=HHO
10/27/2006 (4:33 pm)
I use a Toshiba Qosmio laptop upgraded with 2gb RAM and I love it... it has plenty of hard-drive space, decent video, etc... large laptop though... more like a luggable than a laptop, but it works well as a portable desktop replacement.I own the lowest end (G35-AV600), but I'm lusting after the new AV660. It already has the 2GB RAM, plus it has an NVIDIA Go 7600... very nice.
www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?coid=-30600&seg=HHO
#6
10/27/2006 (9:27 pm)
You should look for Dell Inspiron E1705. It come equipped with Core 2 Duo, 1GB DDR2 667mhz, and 7900GS. A amazing notebook for +/- U$1600 dollars with Dell coupons.
#7
10/28/2006 (9:49 am)
We've had a few Sagers around the office, and while they are slightly cheaper than the equivalent Dells, they break a lot more. They seem to have a more fragile mechanical construction.
#8
JS
10/28/2006 (2:21 pm)
Thanks for all the advice guys, Ill look into those other brands. I hadnt heard of sager at all.JS
#9
Personally I use a Dell Latitude D620 (the latitudes are a whole lot nicer built than the inspirons if you ask me), the gfx card isn't that particulary hot but it works just fine and it's definitely an okay size/weight to be carrying around. It's resonably cheap too.
10/28/2006 (2:48 pm)
I'd have to agree with "hplus". You're NOT going to want to carry those 17"/19" things around. Personally I use a Dell Latitude D620 (the latitudes are a whole lot nicer built than the inspirons if you ask me), the gfx card isn't that particulary hot but it works just fine and it's definitely an okay size/weight to be carrying around. It's resonably cheap too.
#10
I find it hard sometimes to work with a single 19" monitor now, (used to using dual monitors) so if I go with anything smaller its going to be awkward. When your scrolling through pages of code, it really helps if you can see as much as possible.
Thanks for the advice tho, and I would definatly go with something smaller if I was planning to take notes with this.
JS
10/29/2006 (2:36 pm)
This is more of a desktop replacement for me, I dont intend to carry it into college regularly. Its more for travelling between college and home for the holidays. I find it hard sometimes to work with a single 19" monitor now, (used to using dual monitors) so if I go with anything smaller its going to be awkward. When your scrolling through pages of code, it really helps if you can see as much as possible.
Thanks for the advice tho, and I would definatly go with something smaller if I was planning to take notes with this.
JS
#11
or
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_m90?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04
10/29/2006 (2:46 pm)
Http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/MJ-12_m7700i/mj-12m_features.aspx?SysCode=PC-LT-MJ12M-7700I-CP&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULTor
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_m90?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04
#12
10/30/2006 (7:16 am)
All I will say is I wouldn't waste my money on a Quadro card. 
#13
You should be thinking Realistic Consumer Machine. Developing your game on a high end system will likely mask any performance / system requirements issues you would encounter otherwise easily encounter on a lesser system.
After all, there wouldn't be too much point making your game with TSE if you effectively only targeted gaming nerds with systems that consume power for breakfast, and have over-clocked raid hard disk's that sound like twin jet engines.
Of course, if your thinking of making a next-gen xbox360/ps3 game, or perhaps you are just targeting the specialist nerd market, then the above doesn't really matter.
Keep in mind that you should have plenty of memory. I'll leave it to you to figure out that requirement.
10/30/2006 (8:56 am)
Torque Dream Machine?You should be thinking Realistic Consumer Machine. Developing your game on a high end system will likely mask any performance / system requirements issues you would encounter otherwise easily encounter on a lesser system.
After all, there wouldn't be too much point making your game with TSE if you effectively only targeted gaming nerds with systems that consume power for breakfast, and have over-clocked raid hard disk's that sound like twin jet engines.
Of course, if your thinking of making a next-gen xbox360/ps3 game, or perhaps you are just targeting the specialist nerd market, then the above doesn't really matter.
Keep in mind that you should have plenty of memory. I'll leave it to you to figure out that requirement.
#14
About the memory, do you mean RAM or hard disk? I cant get a laptop with the specs I want that has more than 2 gbs of RAM, and I am going for 2 100gb 7200 rpm hard disks in RAID 0. (With a 600GB Raid 1 external backup )
JS
10/30/2006 (12:08 pm)
The development cycle of my game is going to be long, so I am thinking by the time its ready for release the average consumers machine will be significantly better than it is now.About the memory, do you mean RAM or hard disk? I cant get a laptop with the specs I want that has more than 2 gbs of RAM, and I am going for 2 100gb 7200 rpm hard disks in RAID 0. (With a 600GB Raid 1 external backup )
JS
Torque 3D Owner Syllus
But with the atlas paging system and an above average fog distance ( set to allow viewing distance much higher then any normal games tend to give...) I run it with no problem.
Now I can say that I am running a 7950 GTX 512mb card at work and I can only imagine what that thing would be capable of in SLI as it's allready the fastest thing I've ever used with just 1 of them in it lol