TGB Adventure Kit, somebody use it ?
by Oswaldo C. Filho · in Torque Game Builder · 08/24/2006 (4:19 pm) · 19 replies
Hi, i see this new starter kit on the torque site...
I wanted to know the state of the documentation, if it is really complete.
tnkx
I wanted to know the state of the documentation, if it is really complete.
tnkx
About the author
Currently producing the game HellEscape: http://www.baguettegames.com/
#2
08/25/2006 (1:03 am)
@Oswaldo - Also since we placed them on TDN we can always go back and improve any areas that we might have missed the first time.
#3
08/25/2006 (7:01 am)
Yeah, all rigth. Just like the demos of torque developer network, specifically the "Role Playing Game" from the Genre Specific Tutorials. 
#4
The docs on the TDN is very good gets you started in no time!!!
08/25/2006 (7:06 am)
The TGB Adventure Kit is really good!!! worth every $$!!!!!!The docs on the TDN is very good gets you started in no time!!!
#5
08/25/2006 (7:48 am)
It is a great kit with excellent documentation and a wonderful framework. I cannot recommend it enough, especially to those who have thought about make a RPG and were having difficulty figuring out where to start. It won't answer all your questions on inventories and dialogue boxes and such (nor was it meant to), but it will get you pointed in the right direction for top-down layering mechanics that are extremely useful in a RPG.
#6
When i buy the TGB, i buy a engine of game development. Working with a engine is very diferent of open a editor and write a code, a engine haves (in some place, generally in the documentation) the correct way to work. It's called "best praticles".
Exists many ways to making a rpg using the TGB, but how is the correct? Who created the engine/framework has the reply (why his think about this at the moment to construct it).
The TGB does not have an only example or documentation that I can follow to construct a classic rpg (like zelda). And if i start to construct in a way that I find correct and after certain time i see another way more simple and better to do the same (thought, in the engine)? The work of the team will go to the garbage!
Before buying the TGB i said the reason for which i was buying. I said that i needed to create a classic rpg similar to zelda of SNES, receiving as reply: "Yes, of course... when buying the Torque Game Builder you will have access to the Torque Developer Network and will find various examples and an extensive documentation about the product."
Is for this reason that i'm asking in the forum, to hear the reply of who really used or is using the product.
Please, pardon my English, i learne playing videogame.
08/25/2006 (10:38 am)
Humm...When i buy the TGB, i buy a engine of game development. Working with a engine is very diferent of open a editor and write a code, a engine haves (in some place, generally in the documentation) the correct way to work. It's called "best praticles".
Exists many ways to making a rpg using the TGB, but how is the correct? Who created the engine/framework has the reply (why his think about this at the moment to construct it).
The TGB does not have an only example or documentation that I can follow to construct a classic rpg (like zelda). And if i start to construct in a way that I find correct and after certain time i see another way more simple and better to do the same (thought, in the engine)? The work of the team will go to the garbage!
Before buying the TGB i said the reason for which i was buying. I said that i needed to create a classic rpg similar to zelda of SNES, receiving as reply: "Yes, of course... when buying the Torque Game Builder you will have access to the Torque Developer Network and will find various examples and an extensive documentation about the product."
Is for this reason that i'm asking in the forum, to hear the reply of who really used or is using the product.
Please, pardon my English, i learne playing videogame.
#7
With anything that has new iterative versions and updates, you will either have to change your development practices or freeze your engine version to keep consistency at a maximum and not introduce new problems because of changes you have made to the core. This is a constant with development. You have to make decisions, but you also can't sit around waiting for others to make those decisions for you. If you do that, you will never get anything done.
Remember, though, that all of the documentation is in English, so depending on your fluency rate, you will be acting as reader, translator, and interpreter into your native tongue.
08/25/2006 (12:11 pm)
The adventure kit will get you further in creating a Zelda-like adventure title than it would if you were creating a Dragon Warrior-esque title or Final Fantasy game from the tiled/pre-rendered days (pre-X). It however, does not have the conversation interface and an inventory interface, though in Zelda games, these are extremely simple anyway.With anything that has new iterative versions and updates, you will either have to change your development practices or freeze your engine version to keep consistency at a maximum and not introduce new problems because of changes you have made to the core. This is a constant with development. You have to make decisions, but you also can't sit around waiting for others to make those decisions for you. If you do that, you will never get anything done.
Remember, though, that all of the documentation is in English, so depending on your fluency rate, you will be acting as reader, translator, and interpreter into your native tongue.
#8
But, about "have to make decision"... this is not so simple. To leave developing as an insane person is acceptable in a more amateur level, but in an interprise that needs to pay salaries and to please clients in the real world, things are quit differents.
David, i think you dont undertand me. When you purchase a car it come with a manual. Probably you dont need the manual to drive, but certain information about the vehicle you only go to have reading this manual or disassembling the car.
The TGB does not have this manual, then certain information are obtained asking to other people or disassembling (looking the sources). The second hypothesis costs time and money (generally each small looked haves the price of engine (the indie, of course))
"The source code of TGB are very usefull, we make some modifiers on it, to adapts the network library already used in the server of the game. It's save much time and $$$."
Seat and talk before giving some decisions make very well to the pocket. And take wrong decisions can break me. Then i will continue seated until having full certainty of my decision, ok David?
About the english, i read very well.
thanks,
08/25/2006 (2:34 pm)
Well, the kit seems to be really good.But, about "have to make decision"... this is not so simple. To leave developing as an insane person is acceptable in a more amateur level, but in an interprise that needs to pay salaries and to please clients in the real world, things are quit differents.
David, i think you dont undertand me. When you purchase a car it come with a manual. Probably you dont need the manual to drive, but certain information about the vehicle you only go to have reading this manual or disassembling the car.
The TGB does not have this manual, then certain information are obtained asking to other people or disassembling (looking the sources). The second hypothesis costs time and money (generally each small looked haves the price of engine (the indie, of course))
"The source code of TGB are very usefull, we make some modifiers on it, to adapts the network library already used in the server of the game. It's save much time and $$$."
Seat and talk before giving some decisions make very well to the pocket. And take wrong decisions can break me. Then i will continue seated until having full certainty of my decision, ok David?
About the english, i read very well.
thanks,
#9
And you are right. I work in software development and support and as an enterprise, you have to make sound decisions but you also have to make decisions. If you do not have a basic support manual (and it is amazing how much expensive enterprise software comes without a basic manual, especially in education), then you have to pick up a Chilton's or some other such guide to your car (in fact, most cars do not come with a manual oriented towards dismantling the car but only in basic servicing; most assume that professionals will be working on the car and offer supplemental information through third-parties if you want to do the work yourself). Sometimes the manuals describe other model and makes and still others (as in the case of my van) are misprints from the previous year that have never been corrected. That is kind of like most wikis fro game engines. Different articles work with different versions of the engine and others have been updated to the most current. TGB does ship with some excellent documentation, though it does not have a manual in the sense of something like Modo or Max.
If you are attempting a real-time networked action/adventure title on the level of Graal Online, then you will need to work with the netcode quite heavily. If you are making a single-player top-down adventure title, then you will be ahead of the game with the Adventure Kit. Your only example is Zelda, and the Adventure Kit is a formidable example of being able to create a top-down action/adventure title in TGB. Since you are concentrating on Zelda and already having difficulty getting your head around TGB, it would be a step in the right direction that would free you up for working on the other aspects of your game.
08/25/2006 (2:50 pm)
I understand on the reading thing. I can read Japanese rather well but can't for the life of me speak it.And you are right. I work in software development and support and as an enterprise, you have to make sound decisions but you also have to make decisions. If you do not have a basic support manual (and it is amazing how much expensive enterprise software comes without a basic manual, especially in education), then you have to pick up a Chilton's or some other such guide to your car (in fact, most cars do not come with a manual oriented towards dismantling the car but only in basic servicing; most assume that professionals will be working on the car and offer supplemental information through third-parties if you want to do the work yourself). Sometimes the manuals describe other model and makes and still others (as in the case of my van) are misprints from the previous year that have never been corrected. That is kind of like most wikis fro game engines. Different articles work with different versions of the engine and others have been updated to the most current. TGB does ship with some excellent documentation, though it does not have a manual in the sense of something like Modo or Max.
If you are attempting a real-time networked action/adventure title on the level of Graal Online, then you will need to work with the netcode quite heavily. If you are making a single-player top-down adventure title, then you will be ahead of the game with the Adventure Kit. Your only example is Zelda, and the Adventure Kit is a formidable example of being able to create a top-down action/adventure title in TGB. Since you are concentrating on Zelda and already having difficulty getting your head around TGB, it would be a step in the right direction that would free you up for working on the other aspects of your game.
#10
I think this example points out perfectly the difference in viewpoints. It is not expected that the manual of a car include instruction on how to drive, that is the responsibility of driving schools. The manual should tell me the functions of the car and how to use them. In the same way when buying Microsoft Word I should not expect it to tell me how to write a novel or poetry, but the documentation should tell me how to use the program. I see creating a RPG similar to learning how to drive, whereas I think you see creating a RPG as falling under the realm of servicing the car.
I feel TGB does give you the needed information on how to use it. Under documentation/reference folder there are great PDFs which explain how Torquescript works and there's the TGB Reference.pdf which lists most if not all Torquescript functions, their purpose and syntax. And to help the beginner out, there are quite a few tutorials included that show in a practical way how to do many basic things like interface with the level builder and script player movement. In the end, it cannot be expected that there are tutorials for all possible 2D game genres, as everyone has different game ideas and game features they want to include. I bet over time, a lot of the more popular genres will be covered in TDN though.
Also, I would not worry so much on the "correct" way of making an RPG in TGB - because there is no one correct way. Since it appears you are coming from a professional enviroment, it must be clear that in general the customer does not care if your RPG inventory system took 100 lines of code to create instead of 50, as long as it works and the performance of it is good.
Back on the topic of the Adventure Kit, it provides you with some really great art, script and documention. The docs do explain how to set up a project with it and use the resources it provides, but do not expect a "hold your hand", this is how you make a Zelda type game tutorial. If you are already familar with Torquescript and TGB, it is a huge help in getting a game of that genre working.
08/26/2006 (3:57 am)
I think this comes down to a case of different point of views on what should be included in the documentation. In my opinion, TGB is a product aimed at beginners to game development and the documentation that comes with TGB reflects that.Quote:When you purchase a car it come with a manual. Probably you dont need the manual to drive, but certain information about the vehicle you only go to have reading this manual or disassembling the car.
I think this example points out perfectly the difference in viewpoints. It is not expected that the manual of a car include instruction on how to drive, that is the responsibility of driving schools. The manual should tell me the functions of the car and how to use them. In the same way when buying Microsoft Word I should not expect it to tell me how to write a novel or poetry, but the documentation should tell me how to use the program. I see creating a RPG similar to learning how to drive, whereas I think you see creating a RPG as falling under the realm of servicing the car.
I feel TGB does give you the needed information on how to use it. Under documentation/reference folder there are great PDFs which explain how Torquescript works and there's the TGB Reference.pdf which lists most if not all Torquescript functions, their purpose and syntax. And to help the beginner out, there are quite a few tutorials included that show in a practical way how to do many basic things like interface with the level builder and script player movement. In the end, it cannot be expected that there are tutorials for all possible 2D game genres, as everyone has different game ideas and game features they want to include. I bet over time, a lot of the more popular genres will be covered in TDN though.
Also, I would not worry so much on the "correct" way of making an RPG in TGB - because there is no one correct way. Since it appears you are coming from a professional enviroment, it must be clear that in general the customer does not care if your RPG inventory system took 100 lines of code to create instead of 50, as long as it works and the performance of it is good.
Back on the topic of the Adventure Kit, it provides you with some really great art, script and documention. The docs do explain how to set up a project with it and use the resources it provides, but do not expect a "hold your hand", this is how you make a Zelda type game tutorial. If you are already familar with Torquescript and TGB, it is a huge help in getting a game of that genre working.
#11
08/28/2006 (10:25 am)
Little question about the adventure kit: it provides some impressive-looking art, but is it complete enough? I mean: does it go beyond 1 player, 3 enemies, 1 house and that's it? It's not always easy to create art but it is (for me at least :p) even harder to create art that could go with someone else's art.... 
#12
"I think this example points out perfectly the difference in viewpoints. It is not expected that the manual of a car include instruction on how to drive, that is the responsibility of driving schools. The manual should tell me the functions of the car and how to use them."
Very well said Mike... and I fully agree. 5 game tutorials, 15 feature tutorials, 300+ page reference, and mulitiple other reference docs. That is what you get with the SDK, not including TDN.
When you buy a game engine to make a game you won't get a step by step guide to making the game you want, exactly the way you want it. If you did then selling games wouldn't be viable since everyone would be doing so. We are trying to make that step a whole lot easier but we can't create a doc for every persons game. In the end you have to create your own game, we can just instruct you in using our tools to create aspects of that game.
Personally the Adventure Kit is great, a no-brainer great investement. We were showing it off at PAX and got a lot of ooohs and aaahs.
08/28/2006 (12:37 pm)
"The TGB does not have this manual""I think this example points out perfectly the difference in viewpoints. It is not expected that the manual of a car include instruction on how to drive, that is the responsibility of driving schools. The manual should tell me the functions of the car and how to use them."
Very well said Mike... and I fully agree. 5 game tutorials, 15 feature tutorials, 300+ page reference, and mulitiple other reference docs. That is what you get with the SDK, not including TDN.
When you buy a game engine to make a game you won't get a step by step guide to making the game you want, exactly the way you want it. If you did then selling games wouldn't be viable since everyone would be doing so. We are trying to make that step a whole lot easier but we can't create a doc for every persons game. In the end you have to create your own game, we can just instruct you in using our tools to create aspects of that game.
Personally the Adventure Kit is great, a no-brainer great investement. We were showing it off at PAX and got a lot of ooohs and aaahs.
#13
For those new to TGB: the Torque Developer Network is a wiki and all owners of TGB are welcome to edit existing articles and create new ones. The large amount of red links that used to be on the genre tutorial page were put there either with the good intention that a tutorial would be written at a later date or as a suggestion to the community to submit a tutorial on that genre. The layout of the page is changed now though to avoid confusion on "missing" content. The quantity and quality of the tutorials and articles on TDN is largely up the community, hopefully in the future as more people use TGB and become better with it, they will have the confidence to share something there.
08/28/2006 (2:18 pm)
I get the impression there is or was a bit of confusion from some newer TGB users on exactly what TDN is. Perhaps since currently TDN is unlocked after purchasing TGB, there is the expectation that GarageGames is the gatekeeper/creator of the content on it. So if someone saw the links to a RPG tutorial that doesn't exist or a platformer tutorial that is out of date, it's interpreted as documentation that is "supposed" to come with TGB and is missing/old. That's my theory at least.For those new to TGB: the Torque Developer Network is a wiki and all owners of TGB are welcome to edit existing articles and create new ones. The large amount of red links that used to be on the genre tutorial page were put there either with the good intention that a tutorial would be written at a later date or as a suggestion to the community to submit a tutorial on that genre. The layout of the page is changed now though to avoid confusion on "missing" content. The quantity and quality of the tutorials and articles on TDN is largely up the community, hopefully in the future as more people use TGB and become better with it, they will have the confidence to share something there.
#14
I do feel like the mechanic that has been working on gas powered cars and suddenly is expected to work on electric cars without a manuel.
I love the Adventure Kit but I still am not able to access the documentation from the site at GG? Any suggestions?
08/18/2009 (3:28 pm)
I am new to TGB and have found it very difficult to find tutorials. The site either won't, or doesn't, link me to the tutorials??? I do have TGB pro and I am definitely logged in. I am mostly an Objective-C and C++ developer, so writing code is not an issue but I am having problems making my behaviors work. Maybe Mac is the issue?? I do feel like the mechanic that has been working on gas powered cars and suddenly is expected to work on electric cars without a manuel.
I love the Adventure Kit but I still am not able to access the documentation from the site at GG? Any suggestions?
#15
In TGB click Help->Documentation
You can also find it here:
TGB Official Documentation
There's a tutorials section and a behavior tutorials section. Most of them step you through creating some sort of gameplay, though there are quite a few under the Tutorials->Feature section (about 15) that step you through each of the basic features and object types of TGB.
08/18/2009 (3:35 pm)
Have you checked out the included documentation... In TGB click Help->Documentation
You can also find it here:
TGB Official Documentation
There's a tutorials section and a behavior tutorials section. Most of them step you through creating some sort of gameplay, though there are quite a few under the Tutorials->Feature section (about 15) that step you through each of the basic features and object types of TGB.
#16
08/18/2009 (3:35 pm)
I would personally recommend going through each of the Behavior tutorials first.
#17
04/06/2013 (12:34 pm)
Adding to this, I just came back here and wondering where I can get documentation or whatever link to a manual for TGB adventure kit. I have the documentation for Torque2D, but not the adventure kit.
#18
Only Adventure Kit owners can access this content.
I do own it...
Name Download Purchased On
TGB Adventure Kit Download 12/29/2011 (3:12 pm)
04/06/2013 (12:40 pm)
Actually I found the TDN but I get this when I try to view the adventure kit stuffOnly Adventure Kit owners can access this content.
I do own it...
Name Download Purchased On
TGB Adventure Kit Download 12/29/2011 (3:12 pm)
Torque Owner Ben Sparks - Warspawn
StarOrdered Games
it's an awesome kit IMHO