Torque/1.5/WhatsNew
by Rex · in Torque Game Engine · 08/23/2006 (8:51 am) · 187 replies
-Fix for orbit camera jitter.:
-thanks, that was very jerky. I also noticed a bit of jerkiness with the flyCam in Editor Mode[F11], is this connected??
-#0001132: Fix for footstep sounds on different materials on Interiors:
-is this fixed for regular terrain too? I could never get multiple sounds to work across the terrain, only the texture in the first Slot position.
...and many more. Thanks from someone who can't just recompile, especially with support for the VS Express05; perhaps I now can! I see a lot of voodoo with the SimObject and saving/writing/finding....and console functions...! These seem like major changes from the way things were accomplished, am I right in thinking this?
Thanks,
Rex
-thanks, that was very jerky. I also noticed a bit of jerkiness with the flyCam in Editor Mode[F11], is this connected??
-#0001132: Fix for footstep sounds on different materials on Interiors:
-is this fixed for regular terrain too? I could never get multiple sounds to work across the terrain, only the texture in the first Slot position.
...and many more. Thanks from someone who can't just recompile, especially with support for the VS Express05; perhaps I now can! I see a lot of voodoo with the SimObject and saving/writing/finding....and console functions...! These seem like major changes from the way things were accomplished, am I right in thinking this?
Thanks,
Rex
About the author
Rex does all his 3D graphics through BrokeAssGames and is currently working on DSQTweaker, Ecstasy Motion, and other interesting projects yet to be revealed. Just ask him about anything DTS/DSQ related, he's happy to help.
#42
08/24/2006 (12:00 pm)
-- Edited by Admin -- 
#43
08/24/2006 (12:01 pm)
Give a release date then :)
#44
I am not trying to be a smart-ass, honestly. Why is it so important that you have a release date? Why will this release make your game possible, where it wasn't before? If Torque 1.5 never happened, or was never planned, would your game still be possible? Would you not have gotten far more than $100 worth?
These are valid questions to ask both other people and yourself.
08/24/2006 (12:10 pm)
Why do you feel entitled to one?I am not trying to be a smart-ass, honestly. Why is it so important that you have a release date? Why will this release make your game possible, where it wasn't before? If Torque 1.5 never happened, or was never planned, would your game still be possible? Would you not have gotten far more than $100 worth?
These are valid questions to ask both other people and yourself.
#45
08/24/2006 (12:12 pm)
The bigger question is How did the Linux 1.4.2 installer make it out while the PC and MAC are still 1.4.0 
#46
08/24/2006 (12:13 pm)
We're just excited, Pat - Getting a new torque is like having an extra Christmas in the year. 
#47
not really standard to view changes in source from previous version tags.
if I did that I would get my peepee slapped I am sure.
08/24/2006 (12:19 pm)
Ok, seems weird to show a changelog for 1.5 that is listing changes that occured in a different release..not really standard to view changes in source from previous version tags.
if I did that I would get my peepee slapped I am sure.
#48
08/24/2006 (12:20 pm)
Well my fears have been calmed now. Crisis of faith averted, I was a fool for doubting.
#49
08/24/2006 (12:25 pm)
Wow Pat.. That answer almost made me speechless. I can promise you ,that remark will get back to you.
#50
08/24/2006 (12:32 pm)
-- Edited by Admin --
#51
Bottom line is GG is a business and they are entitled to charge what they like for updates. I was just under the impression that a TGE license included future bug fixes / upgrades. That's my mistake, I haven't been following TGE license info all that much lately.
To be honest, with all the resources, the support from Ben Garney et all and other things TGE was a good choice.
That being said, I'm not made of money and the particular project I work on is being released for free so any money I spend I know for a fact I'm not going to recoup. In my particular case, where there is no business reason to spend the money I feel disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade to 1.5. We all want to make the best game possible and to not have features because I don't want / can't afford to pay for them is annoying. Annoying, not the end of the world.
08/24/2006 (12:58 pm)
Lol at both Pat and Tim.Bottom line is GG is a business and they are entitled to charge what they like for updates. I was just under the impression that a TGE license included future bug fixes / upgrades. That's my mistake, I haven't been following TGE license info all that much lately.
To be honest, with all the resources, the support from Ben Garney et all and other things TGE was a good choice.
That being said, I'm not made of money and the particular project I work on is being released for free so any money I spend I know for a fact I'm not going to recoup. In my particular case, where there is no business reason to spend the money I feel disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade to 1.5. We all want to make the best game possible and to not have features because I don't want / can't afford to pay for them is annoying. Annoying, not the end of the world.
#52
Regards,
Dreamer
08/24/2006 (1:02 pm)
@Anthony Rosenbaum, hey man don't stress too much about that 1.4.2 release for Linux users, we were stuck at 1.3 for 8 months after Mac and Windoze users got 1.4, and even then 1.4.2 has it's own full suite of bugs including a malfunctioning console in dedicated mode. I'm excited about the 1.5 release and seriously hope it includes the dedicated console fix, which judging from the release notes it does.Regards,
Dreamer
#53
08/24/2006 (1:08 pm)
Now that's an impressive set of bug fixes. :)
#54
08/24/2006 (1:18 pm)
@GG: Sorry I am the very keen individual who notices minute changes...lol; guilty as charged[and love it!]. I really appreciate this software and how 'easy' it is for me to manipulate...keep it up, GG! and another big THANKS!
#55
I don't think there is a point in our company history when we have knowingly screwed anyone over. We will post more details when we are ready.
08/24/2006 (2:40 pm)
Please have a little faith, okay?I don't think there is a point in our company history when we have knowingly screwed anyone over. We will post more details when we are ready.
#56
If I have to pay something for 1.5, so be it. One of the very big considerations in selecting an engine for me is seeing the company that makes it have some sort of sustainable business model, and having a committment to sustaining the engine. This is because, let's face it, there is a big time investment involved in learning an engine, and then completing a (substantial) project on it, so you would hope that the engine would be around a while and keep improving its technology into the future, not just be a one time purchase. GG seems to have that, and I love the fact that they've been doing this for some years now. When I see some of these engines that has a tiny team working on it, and charges nothing for upgrades, or releases any "packs" or anything, I have to wonder if they'll have any motivation on improving it, 6 months down the road.
Now that said, Pat, you're totally out of line. When you post info about an upcoming release, the reaction you're getting now is the reaction you *dream* of getting. People asking for release dates, asking for more info, asking about what it will cost etc. The time when you have to worry is when you *don't* get that reaction. Then you know you're release is in serious trouble!
The one concern that I do have personally about the 1.5 release is how it will affect me, having just purchases 1.4, the lighting kit, and RTS kit, and starting to spend a bunch of time trying to get those three things to play nice together. I really wish there was more of an effort (even if it means more $$$) to provide some change control amongst these various pieces so that they'll play together better.
08/24/2006 (3:46 pm)
I'm new to Torque and recently purchased the license (and got 1.4). I'm very happy to see such new releases coming out, and a community that is as excited as I am by new enhancements. I really like what I've seen so far with the Torque engine.If I have to pay something for 1.5, so be it. One of the very big considerations in selecting an engine for me is seeing the company that makes it have some sort of sustainable business model, and having a committment to sustaining the engine. This is because, let's face it, there is a big time investment involved in learning an engine, and then completing a (substantial) project on it, so you would hope that the engine would be around a while and keep improving its technology into the future, not just be a one time purchase. GG seems to have that, and I love the fact that they've been doing this for some years now. When I see some of these engines that has a tiny team working on it, and charges nothing for upgrades, or releases any "packs" or anything, I have to wonder if they'll have any motivation on improving it, 6 months down the road.
Now that said, Pat, you're totally out of line. When you post info about an upcoming release, the reaction you're getting now is the reaction you *dream* of getting. People asking for release dates, asking for more info, asking about what it will cost etc. The time when you have to worry is when you *don't* get that reaction. Then you know you're release is in serious trouble!
The one concern that I do have personally about the 1.5 release is how it will affect me, having just purchases 1.4, the lighting kit, and RTS kit, and starting to spend a bunch of time trying to get those three things to play nice together. I really wish there was more of an effort (even if it means more $$$) to provide some change control amongst these various pieces so that they'll play together better.
#57
When the information is "RELEASED" it will appear in the news and on the employee blogs. Until then, don't go asking for dates.
08/24/2006 (4:17 pm)
There is a difference between "Posting information about an upcoming release" and "Someone found a page that was erroneously left public that had information about an upcoming release"When the information is "RELEASED" it will appear in the news and on the employee blogs. Until then, don't go asking for dates.
#59
Just to be clear, the changelog you see there is a work in progress. It currently only includes the changes that are in 1.4.2. I posted it on TDN both so that I could work on it in a persistent editing environment (with history and all) and so that you guys could get a quick peek at what is coming if you were clever enough to find it. In the future it might be best to give us a little bit of credit and not freak out right away on something that doesn't even have a public link to it anywhere but the TDN changelog...you know...just as a suggestion =)
There are going to be some additional changes to 1.5 but I didn't want to list them because, well, they are a secret for the time being =P
Trust me when I say that they are very cool and are well worth paying a very reasonable upgrade price!
Just so no one is disappointed, CVS does not currently include all of those bugfixes. I will be rolling the missing ones into CVS in the very near future. We will also be updating the installers on your product pages with the new 1.4.2 installers in the very near future (we are still nailing down a last few things on it). This will include a number of bugfixes to the Linux code as well. The Linux guys did get an earlier drop of 1.4.2 because they never received the 1.4.0 installer.
As far as release dates go...we don't have a totally solid one internally yet. There are a still a few things that need to be cleared up (one code bug, the changelog, some art tweaking, and getting the pricing structure nailed down and implemented on the website).
It *should* be very, very soon though!
08/24/2006 (4:23 pm)
Hey guys,Just to be clear, the changelog you see there is a work in progress. It currently only includes the changes that are in 1.4.2. I posted it on TDN both so that I could work on it in a persistent editing environment (with history and all) and so that you guys could get a quick peek at what is coming if you were clever enough to find it. In the future it might be best to give us a little bit of credit and not freak out right away on something that doesn't even have a public link to it anywhere but the TDN changelog...you know...just as a suggestion =)
There are going to be some additional changes to 1.5 but I didn't want to list them because, well, they are a secret for the time being =P
Trust me when I say that they are very cool and are well worth paying a very reasonable upgrade price!
Just so no one is disappointed, CVS does not currently include all of those bugfixes. I will be rolling the missing ones into CVS in the very near future. We will also be updating the installers on your product pages with the new 1.4.2 installers in the very near future (we are still nailing down a last few things on it). This will include a number of bugfixes to the Linux code as well. The Linux guys did get an earlier drop of 1.4.2 because they never received the 1.4.0 installer.
As far as release dates go...we don't have a totally solid one internally yet. There are a still a few things that need to be cleared up (one code bug, the changelog, some art tweaking, and getting the pricing structure nailed down and implemented on the website).
It *should* be very, very soon though!
#60
I'm not a contract laywer, and I certainly can't afford one. I understand that I read more into the EULA than was actually there and I take full responsibility for that. The key point here though is Garage Games failed to openly declose in a prominent publicly accessible place, that I would have to pay for updates to the engine. Had I known this, it is highly likely that I would not have purchased the engine, but instead would have waited on a future version such as Torque X.
There are people here that suggest I should stop whining, and I certainly hope that Pat Wilson's disgraceful attitude toward me does not represent the attitude of Garage Games toward hobbyist and independent developers such as myself, but to those who would like to inform me that there are other engines that cost $500k+, that's nice. Those engines are not targetted at me, Torque is. I hope you all feel superior in your knowledge that you have more money than I do.
08/24/2006 (6:19 pm)
I have a problem with all of this, and here is why:Quote:
4. FEES.
(a) The TGE Indie Game License fee for the Engine is $100 per each programmer using or accessing the source code to the Game(s) There are no additional royalties. Licensee does not have to show the Games or publish the Games with GarageGames.
I'm not a contract laywer, and I certainly can't afford one. I understand that I read more into the EULA than was actually there and I take full responsibility for that. The key point here though is Garage Games failed to openly declose in a prominent publicly accessible place, that I would have to pay for updates to the engine. Had I known this, it is highly likely that I would not have purchased the engine, but instead would have waited on a future version such as Torque X.
There are people here that suggest I should stop whining, and I certainly hope that Pat Wilson's disgraceful attitude toward me does not represent the attitude of Garage Games toward hobbyist and independent developers such as myself, but to those who would like to inform me that there are other engines that cost $500k+, that's nice. Those engines are not targetted at me, Torque is. I hope you all feel superior in your knowledge that you have more money than I do.
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