Torque/1.5/WhatsNew

#21 Wow Anthony, I was waiting for some fanboys to arrive. I can understand both camps, though comparing Torque with the 500,000 game engines is as ridiculous as usual. Torque is a great deal for what it is, but dont compare a 94 Ford with a 2006 Ferrari.

Seeing the current list, which is very impressive - I just cant wait to get my hands on this.
:) Priced or not priced, that stuff rocks! I can see how finally alot of those bugs get ironed out, at last.

#22 I'm with Trent on this one.

Yes, we've had free upgrades for five years however there hasn't been that many releases. I've only seen 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 since my purchase of TGE. 1.4 introduced more bugs, bugs that weren't present in 1.3 and a significant amount of the new features in 1.4 were contributed by the community.

Just to clarify, I have no qualms paying for updates, but only if they're 'feature' orientated. I don't feel we should have to pay for bug fixes.

Lastly, that list being partial makes no difference. The fact is there are a lot of bug fixes in that list, bug fixes I must now pay for.

- Tim

#23 The main issue in having paid bug fixes is that there is no way to keep the fixes from "leaking" to 1.4 owners, through resources and forums, especially when some of those fixes were user-submitted. The mere existence of a known bug list can allow 1.4 owners to fix them themselves, making their own 1.5 without even reading the updated source code.

What shall make or break 1.5 is the complete feature list. I have no idea of what new secret features are being set up, beyond the new Contructor-compatible DIF format (which is a nice update on it's own).

#24 Why are people surprised that they will have to pay for 1.5? GarageGames has been clearly stating this since the day Torque 1.4 was released. Read the last post.

Oh, try searching the forum a bit and see if you can find what GarageGames has been saying about 1.5. Something about a component system...

Just reminding people what information has been public for quite some time.

#25 @Alex

The only people that surprised by having to pay for 1.5 are the people who recently bought TGE and weren't aware of that. The rest of us however are surprised by the fact that it seems like 1.4's point release has been rolled into 1.5. I'm trying not to read too much into things right now as they're not ready to announce anything just yet, but the question of the point release has been getting dodged since 1.5 was said to be on it's way. Honestly, that just bothers the hell out of me.

#26 Woah woah woah, I have to pay for an update to TGE??

What about my recent purchase of TSE? How does that fit into things??

To say I'm unhappy about this is a major understatement!

#27 Can we please get a GG offical statement ??
Including a releasedate. Because its kind of frustrating developing right now on 1.4 knowing 1.5 is comming!!

#28 If we have to pay for TGE 1.5, I am willing since it appears to move beyond bug fixes or a point release.

@Benjamin-TSE is a seperate engine and by purchasing TGE allowed you to become an early adopter. With that said, It is a completely different animal regarding releases/upgrade purchases.

#29 Re everyone who's asking for some sort of offical statement from GG -
what part of Josh's post is unclear ? :

Quote:
We will have more details on TGE 1.5 very, very soon. :) We will let you all know exactly what is going to be included in 1.5, what the pricing will be, and how and when we're going to release it very shortly. Hopefully by the end of this week, but perhaps next week.

Thanks for your patience. Again, we'll post with more details absolutely as soon as we can!

surely your time in the next few days would be better spent actually working on your project than complaining about something which hasn't even been specified yet.

#30

Quote:
If we have to pay for TGE 1.5, I am willing since it appears to move beyond bug fixes or a point release.

I agree with only one exception. The bug fixes should be released on their own for free (AKA 1.42).

If this is going to be the case, I have no complaints. If GG are ditching 1.42 in favour of 1.5, and charging for it, I would find that to be extremely unfair.

No point worrying about it until GG is ready to make their next wave of announcements.

#31 I believe some of the fixes are already in CVS. I believe others were 'promised' to be in a 1.42 release. I don't blame them for wanting to charge for 1.5, but I would be very disappointed in them if they didn't release most of the bug fixes as 1.42.

It won't make much difference to me in the end, as I will be buying 1.5. But I think charging for things that should have worked in 1.4 tilts toward the wrong end of the karma scale from what I've come to expect from GarageGames.

#32 I have no qualms about adding to my investment; since I'm not a code compiler, I can't make this list of fixes and features by myself and I always equate things to what I make per hour and how many hours worth of my revenues it would take to get the product in it's finished state. Nearly always it's much cheaper to buy something than to build from scratch.

I didn't want this Thread to turn into a bubbling vat of venom directed towards GG; not at all. This Thread was meant as a THANK YOU to GG for helping me out, and to perhaps get some tech questions answered, nothing more. Please, let's not let this discussion turn that direction. I was intending to post a Thread such as this to ask politely for some included bugfixes with the next release. To me, the materialMapping Property script, which has been broken for some time, is one of the most 'standard' game features and I could never understand why the feature wasn't hyped more[well, not functioning correctly...]. I thought it would be somewhat beneficial for the authors to hear from customers about what they'd like to see in the core product...that's all.

To me and my untrained 'arteer' eye, it seems that this is a true upgrade of the engine along with a lengthy list of know issues that needed addressing. I 'thought' that the component based schema was due in v1.4...but after downloading that and discovering it wasn't and there was no rigid object script[available to artists...;)]; I'll admit, I was a bit disappointed. Providing these and a robusto feature list is more than worth a small 'one-time' fee.

Rex

#33 I agree that paying for bug fix's suck's.
so does paying for FREE code submitted by the community.

paying for nice shiny new stuff is alot easier.

no matter I will not be paying at all, just my 2 cents.

Edit:
are these linux changes / fix's getting rolled into 1.4.?? at some point?

or are these linux fix's done by the community reserved only for the new upgrade fee version?

#34 If it's not an insane cost (like another $100) I'll probably cough up for it. I don't consider it a bad investment on my end, I guess I'm used to paying for "bugfix releases" in my digital audio software (heh heh ugh).

Everyone has to make money somehow...

#35 My personal beef with torque is the camera system. Its awful. The camera mod I tried doesnt work with vehicles AND players together. Unless there is improved vehicle physics, I wont be thrilled about 1.5.

I agree that 1.4 bug fixes should not be rolled out as a 1.5 release. Yes, other "features" are coming. So what. Get the fixes out first as 1.4x, then roll out your new stuff 1.5.

John

#36 The point release, 1.42, that contains many of the listed bug fixes is already out. Have the complainers even looked?

#37 Guys, we are not going to charge people for bug fixes. Indeed, you can check CVS and get most of the 1.4.2 updates already.

Please, before anybody freaks out any more, exercise a bit of patience and bear with us. We want to make sure we communicate what's going on with the next version of TGE clearly... so we can avoid confusion. Threads like this are the result of us only getting partial info out. We don't want to let info trickle out a piece at a time, and cause a bunch of confusion. So, we're going to take the time and make sure everything is clear and easy to understand.

But since everyone is particularly concerned about "paying for a bug patch", I assure you that will not be the case here. I hope that's enough to settle everyone down for a couple days as we prep things on our side and announce things in totally clear detail in the next several days.

Thanks,

Josh

#38 As Erik said, 1.4.2, while not going to be (currently) an installer based release, is already in CVS. It's possible (no guarantees) that it may be available in another form as well. There may be a few last minute changes that aren't yet in CVS, but the 1.4.2 updates have actually been available for several months--it was released configured as a linux build for beta testing quite a while ago.

1.5 has many additional things that aren't on the change list (honestly the change list wasn't supposed to become public--we're always surprised at the way this community digs out information some times!), and it's my personal opinion that many will be quite happy when it's fully discussed.

#39 You know what would be great, and solve the "don't wanna pay for bug fixes" arguments -- if you converted Torque into a subscription-based payment plan. Say 20 bucks a month (with the first purchase giving you 6 months). That way, you could justify putting more resources into it, and we'd all know that we have to pay for new version.

#40 @Stephen Zepp:

It was public in TDN though. :) There are alot of pages in there I would love to dig out, like the Torque SFX pages :D But all of them are protected. The same could be done to the changelog, I guess someone just didnt think it would be found.

Looking forward to the announcements about the new features!