Torque for learning?
by . · in Torque Game Engine · 08/10/2006 (5:26 am) · 6 replies
Good day to all, and pardon the long read ;)
I'm a student(24) who will be setting up a minor (= part of a Dutch higher education study, 6 months, which students can take voluntarely to expand their knowledge. Students need to take at least 1 during their study.) for my school next year. This minor will be about gaming. The main aspect of it will be about game-concepts. This is because we feel that this is the most important part about games (with games I mean for entertainment, but also for learning etc.)
In the 2nd half though I would like to introduce the students to some practical experience. Programming an engine of their own isn't an option, and working in Flash is too simple - most learn Flash during the normal part of their study.
My question is: would Torque be a suitable platform to introduce students to the world of game-development?
As you may or may not have read in another post, I have been following some tutorials but these are limited to adding some models and basic scripts. Is there another resource I can check at the moment?
Thanks for any tips on this, including what you would feel is important for such a Minor about gaming.
I'm a student(24) who will be setting up a minor (= part of a Dutch higher education study, 6 months, which students can take voluntarely to expand their knowledge. Students need to take at least 1 during their study.) for my school next year. This minor will be about gaming. The main aspect of it will be about game-concepts. This is because we feel that this is the most important part about games (with games I mean for entertainment, but also for learning etc.)
In the 2nd half though I would like to introduce the students to some practical experience. Programming an engine of their own isn't an option, and working in Flash is too simple - most learn Flash during the normal part of their study.
My question is: would Torque be a suitable platform to introduce students to the world of game-development?
As you may or may not have read in another post, I have been following some tutorials but these are limited to adding some models and basic scripts. Is there another resource I can check at the moment?
Thanks for any tips on this, including what you would feel is important for such a Minor about gaming.
#2
These reasons are good incentive to choose Torque for you lessons.
08/10/2006 (7:09 am)
As an educator, soon to be one of game design specifically I would definatly encourage using Torque. It is easy to prototype with. There is also a lot of existing documentation and resources, plus the cost of the engine is low enough that you students can purchase the engine and modify the source.These reasons are good incentive to choose Torque for you lessons.
#3
I believe that Torque could be a good platform for teaching, but there are other platforms available that could also be good. I am teaching my daughter game development and programming, and she is 9... Torque is much too complex to be hitting a 9 year old with, and I believe this may be the case with your own students if they don't already have some programming background. That's not to say they won't be able to muddle through, though.
I guess it really depends on how much you expect them to want to just build what Torque is designed to build, and how much you expect them to want to work outside the box. If you think they will be happy all building a First Person Shooter, then it's cool, but if some of them are going to want to build something else then this will require modifying the engine - which will require hacking C++. Now, some of your students may be up to that, and some may not. Hopefully they'll be able to break up into teams in such a way as to spread the C++ capable students around so each team can get one. heh.
Alternatively, you might consider looking at the Torque Game Builder. It only does 2D games (though it can use 3D objects as it's sprites), but it may be better for teaching the basics of building games without hitting them too hard. The students should be able to achieve more variety with TGB than they could with TGE while still learning the scripting which could apply to an advanced TGE course that you could run at a later date.
As further alternative, there are also other packages that may be better suited for your students, depending on the experience level you are expecting. For teaching my daughter, I use DarkBasic (though there is a direct competitor of DarkBasic called Blitz3D which is practically identical). This is more approachable for the young mind, and I've found that it usually works the way I expect it to, which means less time beating my head against a wall just trying to figure out how I'm supposed to be using it. The downside to it is, the quality of the output will not be quite as polished looking as TGE, and it's overall capabilities are probably less, but for a learning tool it seems very good.
The biggest concern I'd have for your students is letting them loose in the GarageGames community. There are a lot of helpful people in the community when people are having a problem, but when the person having the problem doesn't practice very good netiquette they can be shunned pretty bad by the community (and I am as guilty of this as anyone, so I am not pointing fingers at anyone here)... and young teenagers (or even younger, if you are not working with teenagers) have a tendency to not understand netiquette very well. You could have to deal with a situation where they make an ass of themselves here and get flamed so bad they want nothing further to do with Torque.
I cannot speak to the quality of the DarkBasic community because I have not had to interact with it, so for all I know the same warning may apply there.
What would be nice would be a game development community for youngers that was heavily patrolled by the administrators to keep things under control... like, say, a community that would be safe even for my 9 year old - but that's an entirely different conversation.
08/10/2006 (10:21 am)
You didn't really specify the age of your students, so I'm going to guess you mean teenagers.I believe that Torque could be a good platform for teaching, but there are other platforms available that could also be good. I am teaching my daughter game development and programming, and she is 9... Torque is much too complex to be hitting a 9 year old with, and I believe this may be the case with your own students if they don't already have some programming background. That's not to say they won't be able to muddle through, though.
I guess it really depends on how much you expect them to want to just build what Torque is designed to build, and how much you expect them to want to work outside the box. If you think they will be happy all building a First Person Shooter, then it's cool, but if some of them are going to want to build something else then this will require modifying the engine - which will require hacking C++. Now, some of your students may be up to that, and some may not. Hopefully they'll be able to break up into teams in such a way as to spread the C++ capable students around so each team can get one. heh.
Alternatively, you might consider looking at the Torque Game Builder. It only does 2D games (though it can use 3D objects as it's sprites), but it may be better for teaching the basics of building games without hitting them too hard. The students should be able to achieve more variety with TGB than they could with TGE while still learning the scripting which could apply to an advanced TGE course that you could run at a later date.
As further alternative, there are also other packages that may be better suited for your students, depending on the experience level you are expecting. For teaching my daughter, I use DarkBasic (though there is a direct competitor of DarkBasic called Blitz3D which is practically identical). This is more approachable for the young mind, and I've found that it usually works the way I expect it to, which means less time beating my head against a wall just trying to figure out how I'm supposed to be using it. The downside to it is, the quality of the output will not be quite as polished looking as TGE, and it's overall capabilities are probably less, but for a learning tool it seems very good.
The biggest concern I'd have for your students is letting them loose in the GarageGames community. There are a lot of helpful people in the community when people are having a problem, but when the person having the problem doesn't practice very good netiquette they can be shunned pretty bad by the community (and I am as guilty of this as anyone, so I am not pointing fingers at anyone here)... and young teenagers (or even younger, if you are not working with teenagers) have a tendency to not understand netiquette very well. You could have to deal with a situation where they make an ass of themselves here and get flamed so bad they want nothing further to do with Torque.
I cannot speak to the quality of the DarkBasic community because I have not had to interact with it, so for all I know the same warning may apply there.
What would be nice would be a game development community for youngers that was heavily patrolled by the administrators to keep things under control... like, say, a community that would be safe even for my 9 year old - but that's an entirely different conversation.
#4
To my understanding so far, Torque can be used for shooters, platformers, flying/space-games and similar out of the box, with RTS support by using the extention starterkit for it?
I have experimented with DarkBasic and GameStudio A6 myself before, but in my honest opinion they are more like toys for a rainy sunder afternoon, not great resume items when soliciting for a job after completing the study. I have also played around with the 2D Torque engine, but quite frankly I think our students would prefer Flash over this. But basically I'd like to go 3D, or at least offer it as an option.
I'm not too worried about the netiquette. At this age students should be smart enough to know how to behave in online communities. Ofcourse there always are exceptions, but the school teaches these matters from day 1, as it uses lots of forums for distributing information itself. With rougly 7,500 students (divided over 4 practical area's) graduating each year it has to.
08/10/2006 (10:37 am)
Thank you for your replies. The ages of the students following the minor are rougly between 20 and 25.To my understanding so far, Torque can be used for shooters, platformers, flying/space-games and similar out of the box, with RTS support by using the extention starterkit for it?
I have experimented with DarkBasic and GameStudio A6 myself before, but in my honest opinion they are more like toys for a rainy sunder afternoon, not great resume items when soliciting for a job after completing the study. I have also played around with the 2D Torque engine, but quite frankly I think our students would prefer Flash over this. But basically I'd like to go 3D, or at least offer it as an option.
I'm not too worried about the netiquette. At this age students should be smart enough to know how to behave in online communities. Ofcourse there always are exceptions, but the school teaches these matters from day 1, as it uses lots of forums for distributing information itself. With rougly 7,500 students (divided over 4 practical area's) graduating each year it has to.
#5
Regarding out of the box with TGE, I am not sure about all of what you list. I know it can do shooters and simple driving games out of the box, but I'm not so sure about platformers and flight games.
That said, with your students being a little bit older, that changes things a lot. The mindset will be different because they will be going into this class to learn a trade skill, not just as a really fun elective. You should be fine.
08/10/2006 (10:46 am)
20 to 25 is definitely a different age bracket than the one I was thinking.Regarding out of the box with TGE, I am not sure about all of what you list. I know it can do shooters and simple driving games out of the box, but I'm not so sure about platformers and flight games.
That said, with your students being a little bit older, that changes things a lot. The mindset will be different because they will be going into this class to learn a trade skill, not just as a really fun elective. You should be fine.
#6
If you have any questions I have taught college courses before (not game dev though) and would be willing to help.
The Trusted One
08/10/2006 (11:11 am)
You also may want to look at the Game Programming All In One text to use as a textbook and build the course arround. I have found it to be invaluable. If the students are not adept at c++ then I would stick to the base engine, or a base you build for them and just attack it from the art/sound and scripting side.If you have any questions I have taught college courses before (not game dev though) and would be willing to help.
The Trusted One
Torque Owner Aaron E
Default Studio Name
Yes, Torque can be used to teach game development skills. In fact, it already is. I can't post any links right now, but there are some blog entries here that discuss game development education with Torque.