Rant: Game Development Schools
by John Doppler Schiff · in General Discussion · 07/05/2006 (4:51 pm) · 25 replies
OK, this is something that really curdles my milkshake.
Every night, I see ads for one trade school or another, invariably featuring two dorks in recliners playing video games, exclaiming "Wow! I can't believe we get PAID to play games!"
Yep, as anyone here can attest, all you need to do is sign up at your local vocational "college", and you can jump right into the gaming industry as a high-priced game developer, and rake in the bucks! Best of all, you don't even have to pay for it until after you graduate, thanks to student loans. Sure, the rates are exorbitant, but what the hell -- you're going to be a wealthy game developer as soon as you graduate! You can afford it!
The "easy money" lie promoted by these two-bit schools makes me want to puke.
Am I the only one irritated by this?
Every night, I see ads for one trade school or another, invariably featuring two dorks in recliners playing video games, exclaiming "Wow! I can't believe we get PAID to play games!"
Yep, as anyone here can attest, all you need to do is sign up at your local vocational "college", and you can jump right into the gaming industry as a high-priced game developer, and rake in the bucks! Best of all, you don't even have to pay for it until after you graduate, thanks to student loans. Sure, the rates are exorbitant, but what the hell -- you're going to be a wealthy game developer as soon as you graduate! You can afford it!
The "easy money" lie promoted by these two-bit schools makes me want to puke.
Am I the only one irritated by this?
#2
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7579693584195782032&q=game+designer+school
Just figure who their audience is.
And yeah, that's exactly how it is. I spend all morning sitting on a couch playing a game, then my boss comes in and tells me there's another game that needs designing by the end of the day. :)
07/06/2006 (10:57 am)
You mean this one?video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7579693584195782032&q=game+designer+school
Just figure who their audience is.
And yeah, that's exactly how it is. I spend all morning sitting on a couch playing a game, then my boss comes in and tells me there's another game that needs designing by the end of the day. :)
#3
Yeh, only complete morons would believe that commercial, right ?
Please tell me only completely sheltered minds would fall for that ... Im dumbfounded.
07/06/2006 (11:17 am)
/sigh.Yeh, only complete morons would believe that commercial, right ?
Please tell me only completely sheltered minds would fall for that ... Im dumbfounded.
#4
*grumbles*
07/06/2006 (11:33 am)
Not sheltered nor morons would be my guess, but instead high school kids ages 16 - 17 who are just about to graduate. This is right up their alley and I bet you anything that's the target market. I mean school, in my mind, is just another hungry corporation trying to make a killing on the people. I hate school and all forms of it outside of actual seminars and 1 on 1's with teachers on certain subjects. In general, the schools care about your $$, not your education from my experience. Which is why they put that damn teacher who knew less about the damn languages than I did as the java/c/c++ teacher.*grumbles*
#5
07/06/2006 (12:14 pm)
This is a much broader problem than just vocational schools, though... I ran into the same thing at university with full PhD professors of CS... I was constantly having to correct them until they invariably told me I could stop coming to class, that they'd just e-mail me when it was time to come in and take a test.
#6
EDIT: The best school to attend is the school of trial and error. Just get in front of it and do it, you can pick up the little things like 'wtf does "friend" mean in VB.net?' and such later ;)
07/06/2006 (12:17 pm)
Well, I went to SWOSU which has to be one of the worst CS schools on the planet, so I assumed my experience was just an unusual one, but this happened there as well. Not only that, but they were teaching us VERY OLD languages that would not be things 90% of us would ever use. An example was that in '98 they were teaching us C on VAX systems. WHO the CRAP uses VAX?!?! I've only ever seen VAX used in schools (for teaching purposes) and obscure government jobs. Their senior level internet class was teaching us how to use search engines and gopher. GMAFB!EDIT: The best school to attend is the school of trial and error. Just get in front of it and do it, you can pick up the little things like 'wtf does "friend" mean in VB.net?' and such later ;)
#7
07/06/2006 (12:30 pm)
It's no better in other areas of IT, the UK has an advert running that claims the average wage for technical support staff is
#8
Yep...You can't watch G4tv for 10 minutes without seeing one of those commercials atleast once...
-Okashira
07/06/2006 (1:05 pm)
"Dude we gotta make sure the texture we used for the last level fits here too!"Yep...You can't watch G4tv for 10 minutes without seeing one of those commercials atleast once...
-Okashira
#9
07/06/2006 (1:24 pm)
Heck forget 2 bit schools, highly accredited schools are feeding you the same crap, I took Game Design at Savannah School of Art and Design where they felt Flash was the 'end all be all' for game development, there explanation of programming was weak to none, and as far as I could tell no one teaching has any credentials in the game industry. I was highly disappointed with the direction. Unless you want to make art for games Savanna's Game Design curriculum was very lacking.
#10
I second that. I think "higher" institutions are more about teaching you how to be politcally correct, than teaching you useful stuff. I'm like, "Hey! I'm doing a CS degree for a reason. It's not politics!!!"
I wish universities got back to teaching useful stuff. In the meantime, I have to listen to my professor's political rants. :(
07/06/2006 (1:58 pm)
Quote:Anthony Rosenbaum
"...highly accredited schools are feeding you the same crap,..."
I second that. I think "higher" institutions are more about teaching you how to be politcally correct, than teaching you useful stuff. I'm like, "Hey! I'm doing a CS degree for a reason. It's not politics!!!"
I wish universities got back to teaching useful stuff. In the meantime, I have to listen to my professor's political rants. :(
#11
teachers at these schools dont get paid enough and are out looking for jobs as we speak.
this means that, given a good teacher he/she will be gone down the road to the next job asap...
so what you have is really high turn over on teachers.
this drags the students down.
students that were prolly already down to begin with.
with the really short deadlines and the complex requirements simple students cannot cope
throw in a teacher who dont care, and you are screwed.
believe it or not the business man running the school is not really to blame here.
it is the government for not "Governing" these schools and thier business plans.
or at least if they are; they are doing a piss poor job.
for example, student agree's to pay 20k for a 2 year course.
about 5 months in after half the money has been paid, the student lags behind far enough the school reprimands him and he gets pissed with the workload and quits saying "this is bullshit I cannot do this.."
now that poor sap is out 10k
the school is happy one less student, and extra money to show for it.
another example:
about 5 months in after half the money has been paid, the student lags behind far enough the school reprimands him he continues and the school pass's him anyhow.
even tho he should have been a fail.
I dont really know which one is worse.
07/06/2006 (2:15 pm)
The big problem which was already mentioned..teachers at these schools dont get paid enough and are out looking for jobs as we speak.
this means that, given a good teacher he/she will be gone down the road to the next job asap...
so what you have is really high turn over on teachers.
this drags the students down.
students that were prolly already down to begin with.
with the really short deadlines and the complex requirements simple students cannot cope
throw in a teacher who dont care, and you are screwed.
believe it or not the business man running the school is not really to blame here.
it is the government for not "Governing" these schools and thier business plans.
or at least if they are; they are doing a piss poor job.
for example, student agree's to pay 20k for a 2 year course.
about 5 months in after half the money has been paid, the student lags behind far enough the school reprimands him and he gets pissed with the workload and quits saying "this is bullshit I cannot do this.."
now that poor sap is out 10k
the school is happy one less student, and extra money to show for it.
another example:
about 5 months in after half the money has been paid, the student lags behind far enough the school reprimands him he continues and the school pass's him anyhow.
even tho he should have been a fail.
I dont really know which one is worse.
#12
I disagree with you. I really don't think all schools are like that. And I know 3 teachers(1 in game design the other 2 in electronic engineering) from tech schools(I don't know them from going to the schools), and none of them are constantly looking for jobs. Infact the get paid pretty darn good, though I'm not going to name any figures.
-Okashira
07/06/2006 (3:44 pm)
@BadguyI disagree with you. I really don't think all schools are like that. And I know 3 teachers(1 in game design the other 2 in electronic engineering) from tech schools(I don't know them from going to the schools), and none of them are constantly looking for jobs. Infact the get paid pretty darn good, though I'm not going to name any figures.
-Okashira
#13
07/06/2006 (4:01 pm)
The problem is most people qualified to be teaching game development related material, are in fact, actively doing it. I just finished a "Game Design" degree and I knew more than any teacher in the school with regards to programming. The only people that ever did anything there were all self taught. I think the gaming thing is being done largely as a cash in on a fad by universities. Aside from the lack of resources to teach this kind of thing, it's just something the majority of people can't do to the level a paying job is going to expect. Even a school like Digipen with a serious ciriculum that does produce industry ready candidates, has a massive dropout rate because it's so difficult.
#14
I was wondering to go to U.S to study game development. Now i'm a bit confused :S
07/06/2006 (8:57 pm)
Guys, are you saying there's no people qualified in U.S to teaching game development?I was wondering to go to U.S to study game development. Now i'm a bit confused :S
#15
Its not that there's no one qualified to teach it, its just that there are a ton of schools right now that created game design degrees to cash in on it. There's really only a handful of schools to consider, Digipen, Fullsail and the Guildhall. UCF has a game design program as well now, I've heard good things but haven't seen its first end result yet so its hard to judge that one.
I have to agree with everyone though that the commercials annoy me to no end.
07/07/2006 (5:52 am)
@GustavoIts not that there's no one qualified to teach it, its just that there are a ton of schools right now that created game design degrees to cash in on it. There's really only a handful of schools to consider, Digipen, Fullsail and the Guildhall. UCF has a game design program as well now, I've heard good things but haven't seen its first end result yet so its hard to judge that one.
I have to agree with everyone though that the commercials annoy me to no end.
#16
Thanks in Advance,
Gustavo
07/07/2006 (7:44 am)
@Scott: Is there short duration courses? I mean game dev courses with length about 2-3 months or maybe weeks? Like i said i was wondering to go study gamedev in U.S, but i don't have enough money to pay a degree course in DigiPen or FullSail.Thanks in Advance,
Gustavo
#17
I seriously doubt 95% of the schools teaching game design have someone with credentials in the game industry. There's only one Phil Carlisle after all ;)
It's not the government's job to run our PRIVATE schools. We pay to go to these schools. These schools are BUSINESSES just like Intel, MS, GG. It is THEIR responsibility to make sure they pay enough to keep teachers. Think about what would happen if GG employees made less than the minimum wage *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* that they currently make? Would you work as hard? Would you stay there? Hell no. Put the blame where it belongs, on the greedy bastards running the CORPORATION.
I agree 100%. I'm sure there are a small handfull of schools that are legit and would be worth going to, but I seriously doubt the game studios see a degree or, in most cases, a certificate in game design and start jumping for joy. I'm sure they all know that most game schools are a joke.
There are people qualified yes, but those people are NOT in most schools. I'd agree with Scott's list mostly. You really need to be picky when choosing a school. Check credentials of the teachers. Usually they go into a faculty meeting and say "OK. We're gonna offer game design. Who wants to do it?" instead of "Who is qualified to do it?"
Reminds me of Best Buy and how they determine who's going to work in the computer department that day. "Ok, who knows how to turn on a computer?" *crickets* "Who knows how to read the card in front of the computer and make crap up to fill in the blanks?" *several hands go up* "OK.... Scott, you're it today."
07/07/2006 (7:51 am)
Quote:as far as I could tell no one teaching has any credentials in the game industry.
I seriously doubt 95% of the schools teaching game design have someone with credentials in the game industry. There's only one Phil Carlisle after all ;)
Quote:believe it or not the business man running the school is not really to blame here.
it is the government for not "Governing" these schools and thier business plans.
It's not the government's job to run our PRIVATE schools. We pay to go to these schools. These schools are BUSINESSES just like Intel, MS, GG. It is THEIR responsibility to make sure they pay enough to keep teachers. Think about what would happen if GG employees made less than the minimum wage *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* that they currently make? Would you work as hard? Would you stay there? Hell no. Put the blame where it belongs, on the greedy bastards running the CORPORATION.
Quote:I think the gaming thing is being done largely as a cash in on a fad by universities.
I agree 100%. I'm sure there are a small handfull of schools that are legit and would be worth going to, but I seriously doubt the game studios see a degree or, in most cases, a certificate in game design and start jumping for joy. I'm sure they all know that most game schools are a joke.
Quote:Guys, are you saying there's no people qualified in U.S to teaching game development?
There are people qualified yes, but those people are NOT in most schools. I'd agree with Scott's list mostly. You really need to be picky when choosing a school. Check credentials of the teachers. Usually they go into a faculty meeting and say "OK. We're gonna offer game design. Who wants to do it?" instead of "Who is qualified to do it?"
Reminds me of Best Buy and how they determine who's going to work in the computer department that day. "Ok, who knows how to turn on a computer?" *crickets* "Who knows how to read the card in front of the computer and make crap up to fill in the blanks?" *several hands go up* "OK.... Scott, you're it today."
#18
07/07/2006 (7:53 am)
@gustavo - I would look into going to some boot camps then instead of a school.
#19
07/07/2006 (7:57 am)
I agree with Jonathon. If you're wanting something short then I would look into the Torque Boot Camps.
#20
07/07/2006 (9:22 am)
Bootcamps would be better for knowledge, but unless your runing your own business, which you may be doing as an indie, the qualification from a school would be "worth" more when going for jobs wouldn't it? Either way I think that a course in computer science or computing would be better anyway, so your not as limited when it comes to paying next months rent. 
Torque 3D Owner Jonathon Stevens
Needless to say I ended up bailing out of there and going out on my own, yet again. I see ads for their game dev 'school' that is exactly how you described. Two dorks and a dorkette jumpin around on a couch and so excited about building a game.
OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!