MS4 within a few months

#101 "So, Phil, why dont you moderate a bit the other social failures on this boards, besides me, regardless they are part of the crowd following the gospell of TSE, your fellow assciates which spread missinformation on purpose, the ppl which cant code a line of code but pretend they know everything."

I don't think anyones denying others have had heated conversations before, the point is I've never once come across such a childish and immature attitude with posts completely full of fabrications and by someone on some false misinformed crusade on these forums until reading your posts. I've yet to see these so called TSE followers you're ranting about (if they even exist somewhere) and the irony is you seem to be the other extreme about the type of people you're ranting about making yourself even worse than they are.

"In general, dont be surprised at flame wars and extremly rude conversations on the Internet. Its just the way things where and theyll always be."

Yeah I used to think the same when I was a kid, then I realised that's only the case if people as immature as I used to be and you are now continue to post like 12 year olds. Drop it and grow up, it's clear from how uptight you're getting that it's not doing you any good and it's certainly not doing anyone else any good. Before you showed up with your immaturity things weren't that way and as soon as you dissapear I have faith they wont be that way anymore either until perhaps you return or one day some other spoilt kid who's daddy shelled out the cash for the engine comes along.

As for the comments about you telling us how you're saying all this because GG need to hear the truth, well I don't think GG are in denial in the slightest that TSE is taking too long, I don't think many people are in fact. That doesn't mean they need to make up fake statistics about losing increasing amounts of customers to justify their non-facts and lack of patience in waiting for the engine to evolve however.

The point is, a small portion of what you say is true, the problem is the rest of it is totally over the top, completely out of line and completely uninteresting. Just try to relax a little and think before you post whether something you say maybe taken completely the wrong way or be seen as offensive.

#102 @Dan

Come on man. I agree with just about all you say in these forums, but my question to you is why are you here? I know you have the right to be here and say what you want, but I see you very active and happy over on the C4 forums(yes I have been following and reading the C4 froums since its arrival as a possability for me) It looks to "me" (and im not a GG "fanboy" or "hater") that your coming here just to start trouble. While your posts are valid you "know" they are going to get the community up in arms and while I dont condone some of the responces youve been given nor some of the responces youve given it makes me wonder "why you are here" if you love C4 so much more than this. I have been around here for alot longer than you have "waiting" and have spent my hard earned cash on every engine and product they have while I dont like the slow progress I dont complain. I just move on I dont burn bridges or make enemys and look to see what else is out there and just keep checking back cause who knows what will happen in the future. I have purchased MANY engines that have come out and then disappeared leaving me high and dry I just accept it and move on. I dont know man... I just respected your views and felt your pain, but am now left wondering why you are here and if its just to cause kaos cause you know the response your going to get or is it that C4 isnt where you want it to be yet either and still have hopes for this engine. I dont know. I would just rather see you walk away then become an outcast. So when you return this community would be like..."Hey its dan! How you ben man? what ya working on?" instead of " Oh POOP here comes Dan! Everyone get your torches and get ready to flame him!" :) Anyway just my opinion take it or leave it.
Peace out, may the force be with you and all that crap.

#103 Just a couple of notes:

Phil is correct--this thread should have been deleted LONG ago, but I'm extremely anti-censorship, and one of the only (if not THE only) employee that wouldn't have simply deleted this thread long ago.

I give warnings when I feel that warnings are due. Dan, you've had quite a history of posting threads like this, and were closer to the "getting to be really overboard" level than Tom in many, many ways. I don't give moderator warnings/comments for a single post, or even a single thread, but you received a warning because it's a history with you (and yes, I've even gone over and looked at as many of your posts on the C4 forums as I have access to--you don't act on that forum anything like you act on this forum, which lets me know that you only post that way here, and know how to "play well with others" when you want to).

I find it ironic that so much energy has been spent in this thread, yet no one has checked CVS recently...

#104 Stephen,

My apologies. After this clarification I dont cosider yourself a man with double moderator standards anymore. Fair enough what you said.

>> wich lets me know that you only post that way here, and know how to "play well with others"

Yes I do. I also know very well how to make others almost insanely angry. I even specified in this thread that waht I did and talke it was with intent, save several things which where out of my control due to lack of a better english language. In fact , I hold multiple MVP awards from Microsoft from beeing a online pilar of the Windows NT device driver devlopment community for many years.

If you are interested to know why, you have on your public e-mail address a email from me requesting you to remove me from those forums. Use that address. In fact I posted here once again only from respect to you, because after your explanation I decided to offer you public aplogies. So I wont post any "why" here.

Dan

#105 Stephen, please don't get our hopes up :p As I checked, and found nothing, so I'm waiting for the CVS fairy

#106 Ach! No Steven! Not yet!

#107 >>Ach! No Steven! Not yet!

Please release the SVN fairy soon Im getting very frustrated with you guys taking on more and more side projects (Legions demo for one) and diverting resources away from finishing TSE. I rather see my money going to TSE Milestones (which is what I was paying for, or so I thought) rather than purchased Buzz light year want-to-be's and other models and resources that we have already made ourselves. I Find it very sad that you can drop all that money on buying models and things for a Tech demo when you could be using that money for finishing TSE and just have the best in community modelers and Level Designers make up the art to your specifications (you could probably get it done for free). Other engines are looking more and more tempting every day now because the people making them stay on task instead of going off in 10000 different directions.

Well that's my 2 cents take it for what its worth.

#108 Pft, Steven, dont be silly. No one updates the CVS anymore. now what ya need to do for updates involves steath gear, Pat's house number, and a few flash bangs and usb drives.....er....i mean....
....dang.

Anywho, sad to see that it devolved into this towards the end when i was started to become a rather valid thread.
Really, my stance overall is that if something doesnt exist yet, and i need it, i'm danged well gunna code it.
(Even if, to my dismay, it gets released later on in a better implementation)
Also, i was one of thoes people that was really drawn to the high-power networking. When digging through other engines, i wasnt seeing too much, but Torque's TNL is fan-freaking-tastic, and was a major pull for me.
We know how bad it can be over at TTR about getting stuff out on time(if you've tracked at all, we're a very slow going project, alot of which is due to the fact that we live in different parts of the world and do this part time only)
GG's in the same boat in some regards, so i know how it can be and how some stuff just will take higher priority than others. Sucks, but it happens.

Irregardless, i do wish you well in your future endevors Dan, if you do come back in the future, i hope we can work together for the greater of indie gaming.

#109 I would suggest GG to consider SCRUM for their development.

I'm sure you know what SCRUM is so I'm not going to explain, it may help to deliver on time, on budget and in a more focused and productive manner.
I think you could really benefit from it.

Yes Jesse, there are valid options out there, and in terms of visual quality, physics, and some other bits and bops they look way ahead of TSE.
C'mon GG guys, we don't need a Tribes game clone (Legion... I'd rather play Tribes) or any other game you are thinking to make (joke), just give us what GG was born for... the best engine an Indie developer could dream of (by indie develop I don't necessarily mean top programmers only but also average ones), easy to use (no make my game button :) of course ), great workflow, compatibility with more assets' formats, and all the other nice bits and bops you can find in engines like C4, Sylphis3D, Beyond Virtual etc.. you have the base tech to leave all of them in the dust, just do it once a for all :)

Thanks

#110 I said this about 2 months ago (when MBU was released), and don't have permission to say any more quite yet, but trust me--there are quite a few assets (developers, etc.) now assigned to TSE, and you should be seeing new things quite soon.

Quite a few lessons were learned, as well as enhancements produced during the MBU cycle, and those are being integrated as appropriate to TSE.

Just a bit more patience everyone, please, and you'll be happy!

#111 Hey guys,

I feel a bit responsible since my speaking out on other forums started this whole thing.

However, I need to clarify some things:

-I am not directly involved at all with the team responsible for developing TSE. I use TSE on the games side of things, however any information I relay out to the crowd I watch (the games side) is relayed down the pipe to me, and can be considered valid. I do not post this information usually on the TechDev forums as I do not get a chance to participate in that side of things often enough, however this is obviously a problem point, and I and other GG employees will be working much more diligently in order to make sure information is relayed in a timely, efficient and useful manner. Our number one priority is the developers using TSE EA everyday, so let's clear up any confusion on this.

-Associates do not get special early access to any codebases. I won't get into it as this information is already up on the associates page, but Associate is a status, not a VIP pass.

-Milestone 3 has been released, more information can be found in this thread by Brian Ramage: http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=42470

-Milestone 4 is full-steam ahead, and the Dev team is rocking on a daily basis.

-We understand the engine has been delayed past our original expectations, partly due to the Xbox360 Porting. We had never promised a date as these sort of things tend to happen, however we understand and appreciate everyone's patience with us. We feel the updates and the trial by fire work TSE got with MB Ultra will be worth the wait, and now we can move forward and finish the engine and deliver a high-quality product to the indy and commercial crowd.

#112 One last point, Legions, as stated in a few interviews going around the net, will be a comprehensive Example (akin to an advanced starter.fps) as we finish it and wrap up to Release Canidate 1.

#113 @Timothy:

Legions an example? Sweet :)

#114 @Timothy: that's a great news.. (if we can take that as "news" aclualy;)
Talking about myself and my current dev.team - we are more than pleased to have a stable TSE EA.
@GG staff: you guys are working hard, I know, to provide a good AAA game engine. Thanks a lot.

Personally, I want to say that having TGE + stable TSE EA with no (legions or starter.fps) starter base - the structure of engine allows easily and fast to make something with no problems ;)
I am - happy.

#115 Tim, what can you say about TSE for linux?
Whats the scene on that front?

#116 Luke, I believe Linux is openGL based so I wouldn't bet on seeing it on there for a while. :(

#117 @Matt - Actually Brian mentioned that it was possible that a shader-less OpenGL render make an appearance in M4. Not complete, but at least TSE would run on Mac and Linux.

#118 Yes, but whats the use if you can't use any shaders? I guess Atlas would be a perk though.

#119 That would be great Tom!
Shader-less or not, it would be a damned good start and I'd be more than happy myself.
Hell, I'd even try and get the shaders working, not that I really have enough skill for that yet.

With all the confusion that was surounding opengl when tse came true, I understand why, but I still wish it were developed opengl from the start.
Doom 3 did pretty damned good! But then Carmack is still god! :P