TGE ideal for stripped-down "arcade style" games?
by Mitovo · in General Discussion · 03/12/2002 (9:07 am) · 7 replies
Hello everyone..
Just a quick question here...
I'm in the early stages of designing a game that is intended to be a very "old-school arcade" style game with lots of frenetic action. To give an idea of where some of its inspiration is derived from, it has elements of Tempest, Centipede and Defender with some interesting twists mixed in :-).
Gameplay will not take place on vast, rolling landscapes from a "floating gun" point-of-view. Rather it will take place on a contained, finite playing field, much like the games that inspired it (except in 3D of course :-), and will have a very straight-forward "jump in and play" style of gameplay where you can just pick up your controller, start a game and go.
Now, in general, TGE seems like the perfect technology for this game, and the pricing and licensing certainly seem right. My concern is, can TGE accomplish a scaled-down and focused game of this type?
Any feedback on this is appreciated...
Thanks!
Mike
Just a quick question here...
I'm in the early stages of designing a game that is intended to be a very "old-school arcade" style game with lots of frenetic action. To give an idea of where some of its inspiration is derived from, it has elements of Tempest, Centipede and Defender with some interesting twists mixed in :-).
Gameplay will not take place on vast, rolling landscapes from a "floating gun" point-of-view. Rather it will take place on a contained, finite playing field, much like the games that inspired it (except in 3D of course :-), and will have a very straight-forward "jump in and play" style of gameplay where you can just pick up your controller, start a game and go.
Now, in general, TGE seems like the perfect technology for this game, and the pricing and licensing certainly seem right. My concern is, can TGE accomplish a scaled-down and focused game of this type?
Any feedback on this is appreciated...
Thanks!
Mike
About the author
#2
I know you can do this with the Torque because we are creating an arcade style game with it (different than yours though).
Jeff Tunnell GG
03/12/2002 (12:17 pm)
Michael,I know you can do this with the Torque because we are creating an arcade style game with it (different than yours though).
Jeff Tunnell GG
#3
Thanks for the reply! Actually, after re-reading my post, I kinda realized that whether or not TGE could "accomplish" the kind of game I want to make was the wrong question... What I meant and *should* have asked was, is it so geared towards Tribes/Tribes2 style gameplay with huge open landscapes, etc. etc. that "retro-fitting" it to a simpler, arcade-style game would be more work than might be worth investing.
I somehow think that it probably insn't overall. But I'm no authority on the nuts and bolts of such issues and so I figured I could get an informed response from some of the more learned folks 'round these here forums.
I do agree with you on the starting with smaller arcade-style games, especially for an indie company. I can speak from personal experience that starting out "big" on a first title with an inexperienced team is a Bad Idea; unless you've got endless piles of money and time to do it with, learning as you go along. Which I doubt many people have :-).
However, to be honest, I don't see it as a "negative" at all.. or even "paying dues" to work on simpler games. I think it's a shame that the straight-forward arcade-classic-style games have been pushed aside as much as they have in favor of the whole "more and bigger" mentality. I would be extremely excited to see a return of games that capture the spirit and gameplay of those arcade classics (there's a reason why they're called "classics" after all :-).
If everything truly does work in cycles, then hopefully somewhere in the near future we'll see some new, unique and interesting titles being released and given their proper chance. And if it's truly the indies that develop new and unique ideas that the big companies won't "take the risk" on, then perhaps what GarageGames offers is the way through which such an event can come about.
Let's hope so!
In any case... thanks for the input, Magnus!
Mike
03/12/2002 (12:41 pm)
Magnus,Thanks for the reply! Actually, after re-reading my post, I kinda realized that whether or not TGE could "accomplish" the kind of game I want to make was the wrong question... What I meant and *should* have asked was, is it so geared towards Tribes/Tribes2 style gameplay with huge open landscapes, etc. etc. that "retro-fitting" it to a simpler, arcade-style game would be more work than might be worth investing.
I somehow think that it probably insn't overall. But I'm no authority on the nuts and bolts of such issues and so I figured I could get an informed response from some of the more learned folks 'round these here forums.
I do agree with you on the starting with smaller arcade-style games, especially for an indie company. I can speak from personal experience that starting out "big" on a first title with an inexperienced team is a Bad Idea; unless you've got endless piles of money and time to do it with, learning as you go along. Which I doubt many people have :-).
However, to be honest, I don't see it as a "negative" at all.. or even "paying dues" to work on simpler games. I think it's a shame that the straight-forward arcade-classic-style games have been pushed aside as much as they have in favor of the whole "more and bigger" mentality. I would be extremely excited to see a return of games that capture the spirit and gameplay of those arcade classics (there's a reason why they're called "classics" after all :-).
If everything truly does work in cycles, then hopefully somewhere in the near future we'll see some new, unique and interesting titles being released and given their proper chance. And if it's truly the indies that develop new and unique ideas that the big companies won't "take the risk" on, then perhaps what GarageGames offers is the way through which such an event can come about.
Let's hope so!
In any case... thanks for the input, Magnus!
Mike
#4
Whoops! Heh... see that? I was so busy chattin' away there to Magnus that I didn't even hear ya responding!
;-)
Well, that's certainly great news about Torque's abilities!
Can't wait to see what y'all are working on!
Thanks again..
Mike
03/12/2002 (12:45 pm)
Jeff,Whoops! Heh... see that? I was so busy chattin' away there to Magnus that I didn't even hear ya responding!
;-)
Well, that's certainly great news about Torque's abilities!
Can't wait to see what y'all are working on!
Thanks again..
Mike
#5
As for starting big; well... we did. AND amazingly enough, somehow after years of struggling we actually did finish our first project and it was a rather major one. Only problem was that it was a mod for another game so that was pretty much it. Not too much we could do with it after it was done. We learned a lot, but if I would have done it all over again I certainly would have done it differently.
Oh, and the "paying dues" comment was more like a small sarcastic side-thought than anything I _really_ meant. =)
I certainly agree with you, there's nothing negative with arcade games at all. I love digging in my game collection, I love playing modern remakes of the classics and I love creating this game.
Since I don't work with the TGE, I'm afraid I can't help you any definite answers, I was pretty much just assuming it wouldn't be no major problems (not any bigger problems than using any other engine anyway).
I guess Jeff answered your queries though so no need for me to "guess" anymore =).
03/12/2002 (1:03 pm)
Michael,As for starting big; well... we did. AND amazingly enough, somehow after years of struggling we actually did finish our first project and it was a rather major one. Only problem was that it was a mod for another game so that was pretty much it. Not too much we could do with it after it was done. We learned a lot, but if I would have done it all over again I certainly would have done it differently.
Oh, and the "paying dues" comment was more like a small sarcastic side-thought than anything I _really_ meant. =)
I certainly agree with you, there's nothing negative with arcade games at all. I love digging in my game collection, I love playing modern remakes of the classics and I love creating this game.
Since I don't work with the TGE, I'm afraid I can't help you any definite answers, I was pretty much just assuming it wouldn't be no major problems (not any bigger problems than using any other engine anyway).
I guess Jeff answered your queries though so no need for me to "guess" anymore =).
#6
Hello again!
Wow, so you are one of the few who actually managed a large title on your first try? Very cool! You must have been working with a great team. I checked out your site and your sample art.. VERY nice work.
Unfortunately, the team I was working with was a big part of the problem, but I'm not going to go into gory details. Suffice it to say that there was alot of "political powerplays", posturing and undermining going on that helped to bring to a screeching halt what might have otherwise been a fruitful partnership. Though I will still argue that the title we were working on was *way* too ambitious for us at the time, given the circumstances we were working under.
I do still hope to pick up that game one day (I'm its creator and so it's still legally my "property", so parting ways with those guys wasn't a total loss :-). It's a great story and design that I put *alot* of time and care into creating and I really think it could be a great game when finished. But, time will tell!
In any case.. thanks for the great conversation, Magnus! Look forward to seeing what you're workin' on!
Mike
03/13/2002 (8:55 am)
Magnus,Hello again!
Wow, so you are one of the few who actually managed a large title on your first try? Very cool! You must have been working with a great team. I checked out your site and your sample art.. VERY nice work.
Unfortunately, the team I was working with was a big part of the problem, but I'm not going to go into gory details. Suffice it to say that there was alot of "political powerplays", posturing and undermining going on that helped to bring to a screeching halt what might have otherwise been a fruitful partnership. Though I will still argue that the title we were working on was *way* too ambitious for us at the time, given the circumstances we were working under.
I do still hope to pick up that game one day (I'm its creator and so it's still legally my "property", so parting ways with those guys wasn't a total loss :-). It's a great story and design that I put *alot* of time and care into creating and I really think it could be a great game when finished. But, time will tell!
In any case.. thanks for the great conversation, Magnus! Look forward to seeing what you're workin' on!
Mike
#7
"First try" isn't quite accurate but I won't bore you with my story.
And "great team" certainly wasn't true at the time either. There were one or two half great-ish people, and one stubborn enough idiot (me that is) doing whatever had to be done to see things through. =)
Either way. Good luck with your project, I'll see what I can do about getting some eyecandy from our game up somewhere. (no promises I'll get around to it though, we're keeping a rather tight schedule for the moment so it's easy to forget).
03/13/2002 (11:18 am)
Michael,"First try" isn't quite accurate but I won't bore you with my story.
And "great team" certainly wasn't true at the time either. There were one or two half great-ish people, and one stubborn enough idiot (me that is) doing whatever had to be done to see things through. =)
Either way. Good luck with your project, I'll see what I can do about getting some eyecandy from our game up somewhere. (no promises I'll get around to it though, we're keeping a rather tight schedule for the moment so it's easy to forget).
Torque Owner Magnus Blikstad
Oh, and while I'm at it, just wanted to say; Right now these sorts of games lends themselves much better to the situation of most independent developers than some games I've seen around here. I say "right now", since I believe that soon enough there will be a whole lot of more independents making a difference (first we have to pay our dues by making small "old school arcade games" though =). We have to remember that computer games are _very_ young when you compare it to other forms of entertainment, things are changing.
Good choice keeping it simple!
We're working on something similar to what you describe, even though our game would be best described as something like "2d arcade with extremely stylish design and 3d graphics". (basically the design/art-style is _VERY_ original, maybe even "weird". All the graphics are presented in full 3d, but the gameplay stays fairly true to the 2d classics). However, we don't use TGE since while we of course want to get things done in a reasonable amount of time, we're in the rather nice position of not being in any HUGE hurry.
If you have the manpower and the time to develop your own code from scratch it does makes things a bit cleaner in the end. Not to mention that you can optimize everything to your needs. (This is especially true when it comes to things like how to get your art out of your software and into your game. Using others solutions are not always optimal to the ways you want to have it).
Bottom line is; if you need your game done fast, take a shot with a pre-made engine (be warned about having to relearn some things though!). If you're in a secure enough position, have a whole lot of time available, and have a programmer or two at hand go with your own tech. It's really a choice only you can make.