Challenge
by Matt Fairfax · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 04/03/2001 (11:15 am) · 177 replies
I have heard more and more people complaining about the stagnating state of games, yet I see very few people trying to do anything about it. GG is making a good start =) but 3 people can't change the industry. However, there are several thousand GG members, all of whom are creative people. Therefore I put forth this challenge:
What if everyone who visits GG would post just one original game idea? You would have several thousand original game ideas! So, just make something up! Look around the room! Look around as you drive/ride around! Think about what you like to do, what you like to read, what tv shows and movies you like to watch. Think back to when you were a young kid and try to remember those games you used to make up. Think about your fondest memories and dreams. Go crazy, go wild, be silly!
Here are some things to think about while you think up your ideas:
-You don't have to even post a description. A simple title can help to spark other's imgainations far more than an already laid out game. For example: what images does the title "Nose Picker 3D" bring to mind? I'm sure that they are radically different from most other people reading this post =)
-Try to avoid mentioning the name of already existing games. If you liken your game to another you are begining to stray back onto the beaten path.
-Try to avoid games that are described by something like, "It is a cross between StarCraft and Deer Hunter 3D". If you can't describe your game without mentioning a blend of existing games then spell out exactly how this mixture will work.
-Try to avoid describing your game with genres. There is a big difference between saying your game has a first person view and your game is a first person shooter.
-Don't worry about whether or not existing technology will support you game idea. We are talking about ideas not implementation.
-If you want a challenge, try to come up with a hardcore game that doesn't involve violence in any form (not even laser tag or nerf).
-Don't worry about marketability. Who cares if it would sell well. These are just ideas.
-Ask friends and family what game they would want to play. It may not be your idea originally but you can expand on it greatly.
These are just suggestions. Please don't let them hold you back in any way!
Well, have at it! I look forward to seeing what this fine community can come up with!
What if everyone who visits GG would post just one original game idea? You would have several thousand original game ideas! So, just make something up! Look around the room! Look around as you drive/ride around! Think about what you like to do, what you like to read, what tv shows and movies you like to watch. Think back to when you were a young kid and try to remember those games you used to make up. Think about your fondest memories and dreams. Go crazy, go wild, be silly!
Here are some things to think about while you think up your ideas:
-You don't have to even post a description. A simple title can help to spark other's imgainations far more than an already laid out game. For example: what images does the title "Nose Picker 3D" bring to mind? I'm sure that they are radically different from most other people reading this post =)
-Try to avoid mentioning the name of already existing games. If you liken your game to another you are begining to stray back onto the beaten path.
-Try to avoid games that are described by something like, "It is a cross between StarCraft and Deer Hunter 3D". If you can't describe your game without mentioning a blend of existing games then spell out exactly how this mixture will work.
-Try to avoid describing your game with genres. There is a big difference between saying your game has a first person view and your game is a first person shooter.
-Don't worry about whether or not existing technology will support you game idea. We are talking about ideas not implementation.
-If you want a challenge, try to come up with a hardcore game that doesn't involve violence in any form (not even laser tag or nerf).
-Don't worry about marketability. Who cares if it would sell well. These are just ideas.
-Ask friends and family what game they would want to play. It may not be your idea originally but you can expand on it greatly.
These are just suggestions. Please don't let them hold you back in any way!
Well, have at it! I look forward to seeing what this fine community can come up with!
About the author
I am a Game Designer at PopCap who has worked on PvZ Adventures, PvZ2, Peggle Blast, and Bejeweled Skies. I am an ex-GarageGames employee who helped ship TGE, TGEA, Torque 3D, and Constructor.
#2
Oh and just so no one thinks I am making an empty challenge w/o posting an idea of my own:
My idea is for a game for kids. It would feature a group of kids (around 13 or 14 years old) who solve mysteries. They would have some sort of hangout place (tree house, garage, shed behind someone's house, whatever) and people would come to them with various mysteries for them to solve. They would have to collect clues and try to solve puzzles like who stole the prize money and where are they hiding it. When I was young I really got into a lot of books like Encyclopedia Brown, Secret Agents Four, and countless other kid mystery books and I have been watching my younger brother (pre-teen till recently) really enjoying my old books! I think a well done game like this would be welcomed by many parents. You would have to be careful to not make the game too kiddy to appeal to the right crowd (8 to 14 maybe?) so realistic models and environments (no cartoons) would be a must.
I know this idea isn't incredibly original (hey I only just started to cook up game ideas) but I think it is very different from most games I know of.
04/03/2001 (1:30 pm)
By all means bend the "rules"! I was just trying to offer some suggestions for helping people think outside of the box. Even if it just made you think about whether or not you thought that mentioning other games is a good idea, it has already made you think =) Sneaky aren't I?Oh and just so no one thinks I am making an empty challenge w/o posting an idea of my own:
My idea is for a game for kids. It would feature a group of kids (around 13 or 14 years old) who solve mysteries. They would have some sort of hangout place (tree house, garage, shed behind someone's house, whatever) and people would come to them with various mysteries for them to solve. They would have to collect clues and try to solve puzzles like who stole the prize money and where are they hiding it. When I was young I really got into a lot of books like Encyclopedia Brown, Secret Agents Four, and countless other kid mystery books and I have been watching my younger brother (pre-teen till recently) really enjoying my old books! I think a well done game like this would be welcomed by many parents. You would have to be careful to not make the game too kiddy to appeal to the right crowd (8 to 14 maybe?) so realistic models and environments (no cartoons) would be a must.
I know this idea isn't incredibly original (hey I only just started to cook up game ideas) but I think it is very different from most games I know of.
#3
04/03/2001 (3:56 pm)
A WWI or WWII based war game in which the player does not participate on the battlefield, but in espionage/sabotage oriented objectives.
#4
im into the FPS genure at the moment.
A FPS. It's based on a fictional military fighting. This fighting force is made up of 3 primary branches.
I've named them M-26, M-12, and M-8. They are just arbitrary names.
M-26 is the standard frontline combat force as opposed to close tactical anti-terrorist teams Typically working in squad level teams of 2 to 3 (about 24 men) they engage targets from long to medium range primarily although close combat, while not a primary mission type, can be handled and is covered in training.
Sometimes with heavy weapons support depending on the mission type fighting with combined arms.
M-12 is the close combat (cqb) troop type element primarily dedicated to close in fighting with as little as possible casualties that can accomplish the mission as expediently and quietly as possible.
Usually one squad in size (about 8 to 10 men)
Their missions will take place in mostly small environments where they can infiltrate, accomplish the objective, and get out ASAP.
M-8 is the dedicated infiltrator of this military group. Maybe in teams of 2 but most likely works alone to gain access to an enemy stronghold, facility, ect to place a bomb, steal records, hack into a mainframe, and then exit with as little blood as possible spilled.
Think Metal Gear Solid. That's the best description.
All 3 (26, 12, and 8) would have the correct loadout options of weapons and equipment for their specifc job.
You also take part in the battles and act as a commander class.
Now, as the player of this game you are presented with a mission type and its up to you to decide which team, M-26, 12, or 8, is the best to accomplish the mission.
After weighing all the options of which would be the best team you then plan and design the mission. You decide where the insertion is, where the extraction is, if there is more than one squad you plan out the squads movements and actions which you're not controlling. You also choose the load out, if there is support available and how to use it (artillery, aircraft, armor).
You, as the designer, can also choose more than one kind of team per mission.
If you think using M-8 to accomplish the objective inside the facility is the best rout but you cant gain access with him because the defense is to great you can choose to use M-26 as a diversion to pull guards away and so on.
The game is primarily single player but a multi option is there and in 2 forms.
The first form is a quick setup and play game where you choose a random server and play a map. Just like HL and its mods.
The second form is the campaign game where you can play the single player game with buddies all the way through (save option of course).
As for the single player area, with the choices of 3 unique elements, the terrain as large as it can be with v12, our imaginations, and knowing some very talented people, this game can be massive in size and fun. So many ways to accomplish any mission. Planning, designing, ordering units around, carrying out the mission. Much fun I think. Much replay.
04/03/2001 (7:20 pm)
Well, lets see what comes to mind.im into the FPS genure at the moment.
A FPS. It's based on a fictional military fighting. This fighting force is made up of 3 primary branches.
I've named them M-26, M-12, and M-8. They are just arbitrary names.
M-26 is the standard frontline combat force as opposed to close tactical anti-terrorist teams Typically working in squad level teams of 2 to 3 (about 24 men) they engage targets from long to medium range primarily although close combat, while not a primary mission type, can be handled and is covered in training.
Sometimes with heavy weapons support depending on the mission type fighting with combined arms.
M-12 is the close combat (cqb) troop type element primarily dedicated to close in fighting with as little as possible casualties that can accomplish the mission as expediently and quietly as possible.
Usually one squad in size (about 8 to 10 men)
Their missions will take place in mostly small environments where they can infiltrate, accomplish the objective, and get out ASAP.
M-8 is the dedicated infiltrator of this military group. Maybe in teams of 2 but most likely works alone to gain access to an enemy stronghold, facility, ect to place a bomb, steal records, hack into a mainframe, and then exit with as little blood as possible spilled.
Think Metal Gear Solid. That's the best description.
All 3 (26, 12, and 8) would have the correct loadout options of weapons and equipment for their specifc job.
You also take part in the battles and act as a commander class.
Now, as the player of this game you are presented with a mission type and its up to you to decide which team, M-26, 12, or 8, is the best to accomplish the mission.
After weighing all the options of which would be the best team you then plan and design the mission. You decide where the insertion is, where the extraction is, if there is more than one squad you plan out the squads movements and actions which you're not controlling. You also choose the load out, if there is support available and how to use it (artillery, aircraft, armor).
You, as the designer, can also choose more than one kind of team per mission.
If you think using M-8 to accomplish the objective inside the facility is the best rout but you cant gain access with him because the defense is to great you can choose to use M-26 as a diversion to pull guards away and so on.
The game is primarily single player but a multi option is there and in 2 forms.
The first form is a quick setup and play game where you choose a random server and play a map. Just like HL and its mods.
The second form is the campaign game where you can play the single player game with buddies all the way through (save option of course).
As for the single player area, with the choices of 3 unique elements, the terrain as large as it can be with v12, our imaginations, and knowing some very talented people, this game can be massive in size and fun. So many ways to accomplish any mission. Planning, designing, ordering units around, carrying out the mission. Much fun I think. Much replay.
#5
Those of you who know me know of my taste for the massive multiplayer games. In reading other threads here at GG I think that it's a genre which has a huge potential for growth and I already noticed several people inquire about V12 licensing and how it would work with massive multiplayer games.
The one thing that concerns me with the genre is the fact that each MMO game in the pipeline(there are at least 30 currently under way) plans on charging a $10(in all cases so far) monthly fee to play the game with the exception of Project Entropia which charges tax on in game transactions(which are done in hard currency). It hasn't been much of an issue so far, only a handful of games and all of them RPG's. Players choose one and stick with it. I could go on and on here about all the MMO games that could be created just based off old ideas and putting them in an online setting. The average person don't have $40+ to spend every month just on his gaming. The companies however will claim that the development cost, the server and bandwidth fees and the employment costs(for support etc) make these charges neccesary.
What I personally would love to see(and believe me I've thought a lot about this in recent months) would be for a developer to put the tools in to the hands of the players. If there is one thing that the variety of Ultima Online emulators(such as UOX) has shown us it is that people will put up the hardware to be the game master in their own world. Players have created whole new worlds using home brewed tools, they have created their own quests, stocked their own areas etc. There are UOX servers sporting hundreds of players throughout the world.
I don't think that a target "massive" multiplayer home brewed game could have teh same target number of players per server that say a Verant or Microsoft server could, but does it really need them? In an RPG for example, with auto attack, less projectiles etc you could probably increase the players per server target signifigantly right off the bat. Especially if the target was on PVP rather than PVE(where AI is going to add some server load). Neverwinter Nights for example is targetted at a smaller number of players but allows the ability for multiple servers to link up to combine to create a larger overall world(similar to zones in Everquest).
The important thing here is persistance. Characters can advance over time and they meet up with the same characters over time which builds community. Server operators are allowed the freedom to control, modify and dictate their world which encourages community involvement. I think it could work over a variety of different genres and would love to see someone take a crack at the various genres. I will most likely be putting a team together to take a crack at the RPG genre but there are a ton of other genres or twists out there to be explored. Games such as WWII Online, Planetside, Earth and Beyond, Sovereign are all tackling old genres in a massive online setting. This could be a huge area to explore.
04/03/2001 (10:44 pm)
I'm bored, I'm awake, so what the heck I'll give it a go hehe. There is a point here so just bear through the first couple of paragraphcs. =PThose of you who know me know of my taste for the massive multiplayer games. In reading other threads here at GG I think that it's a genre which has a huge potential for growth and I already noticed several people inquire about V12 licensing and how it would work with massive multiplayer games.
The one thing that concerns me with the genre is the fact that each MMO game in the pipeline(there are at least 30 currently under way) plans on charging a $10(in all cases so far) monthly fee to play the game with the exception of Project Entropia which charges tax on in game transactions(which are done in hard currency). It hasn't been much of an issue so far, only a handful of games and all of them RPG's. Players choose one and stick with it. I could go on and on here about all the MMO games that could be created just based off old ideas and putting them in an online setting. The average person don't have $40+ to spend every month just on his gaming. The companies however will claim that the development cost, the server and bandwidth fees and the employment costs(for support etc) make these charges neccesary.
What I personally would love to see(and believe me I've thought a lot about this in recent months) would be for a developer to put the tools in to the hands of the players. If there is one thing that the variety of Ultima Online emulators(such as UOX) has shown us it is that people will put up the hardware to be the game master in their own world. Players have created whole new worlds using home brewed tools, they have created their own quests, stocked their own areas etc. There are UOX servers sporting hundreds of players throughout the world.
I don't think that a target "massive" multiplayer home brewed game could have teh same target number of players per server that say a Verant or Microsoft server could, but does it really need them? In an RPG for example, with auto attack, less projectiles etc you could probably increase the players per server target signifigantly right off the bat. Especially if the target was on PVP rather than PVE(where AI is going to add some server load). Neverwinter Nights for example is targetted at a smaller number of players but allows the ability for multiple servers to link up to combine to create a larger overall world(similar to zones in Everquest).
The important thing here is persistance. Characters can advance over time and they meet up with the same characters over time which builds community. Server operators are allowed the freedom to control, modify and dictate their world which encourages community involvement. I think it could work over a variety of different genres and would love to see someone take a crack at the various genres. I will most likely be putting a team together to take a crack at the RPG genre but there are a ton of other genres or twists out there to be explored. Games such as WWII Online, Planetside, Earth and Beyond, Sovereign are all tackling old genres in a massive online setting. This could be a huge area to explore.
#6
-maurice
04/03/2001 (11:52 pm)
This is a thread I tried to start before. I'm glad things are underway. I'm working on a game idea right now that I hope to be into development of sometime next year. It has no name as of yet, and falls into no genre that I can think of. The game is played on line between untold numbers of players, and the human controllers. The controllers shape the world the players experience during play. And can interract with players directly. The game knows its a program running on your computer and reminds you whenever it gets the chance. In other words, there is no point at witch the game ends any reality begins. In fact, this is no 'game' at all. I love the idea of creating a massively multiplayer on-line game that has no subscription fees, and is actually fun. Everquest makes me want to puke. It's not even an rpg. Just a bunch of players 'boning up' (killing the same monster to gain levels) just to get strong enough to bone up somewhere else. I had much more fun playing mud's. Text forces role-playing. Anyway, this game i'm working on is not an rpg. Like I said before It has no classification. It will be played on-line, It will be free, It will be something I have never seen before. Therefore, It will be a game I will want to play. I sure hope it doesn't suck. When I read about Richard Garriot and past members of Origin burning the UO2 design docs in a bonfire, it reinforced my belief that an era is comming to an end. But what is beginning is much more fun. let me know what you think.-maurice
#7
Take our coming game (developed by Remedy, with 3DR's funding and design assistance), Max Payne (the just-out May issue of PC Gamer has an awesome cover story of Max--I do not think I've ever read such a glowing preview of a game, but then I might be biased): Max is merely a third-person, story-based action game (I've dubbed it a "deep action" game). But, if you read the preview, it's all the details--the implementation of this basic, seen-before idea--that makes all the difference. And this was our intended design from the begin...take an established genre and concept and implement it in a fantastic new way.
I won't go into the details of the game, because I don't want to push it too hard, but I think Max Payne is a good case study in taking an established concept and breathing new life into it.
Scott, 3DR
04/04/2001 (8:34 am)
I think a lot of times developers get caught up in coming up with an original game concept -- but just as often you can take a not-so-original concept or genre and still create a very unique game. IOW, I think that the *implementation* of the game idea is often more important than the idea itself.Take our coming game (developed by Remedy, with 3DR's funding and design assistance), Max Payne (the just-out May issue of PC Gamer has an awesome cover story of Max--I do not think I've ever read such a glowing preview of a game, but then I might be biased
I won't go into the details of the game, because I don't want to push it too hard, but I think Max Payne is a good case study in taking an established concept and breathing new life into it.
Scott, 3DR
#8
04/04/2001 (8:35 am)
BTW, I'll invite a few industry friends to take a look into this thread...
#9
your a quuen ant and have a colony. you have to build and organise your ant underlings.
you have to have them build birthing chambers and storrage chambers.
But its more than just the borring regular old ant colony.
It has character and your able to do things ants normally dont do.
There would be an Mad Ant Scientist. He wears a white lab coat and thick goggles over his eyes. He has white hair thats always a mess and sticks up in every direction. He talks in a thick german accent :)
He has an assistant. His name is Antgore. He wears a skull cap, has a hump on his throax, and drags one leg behind him while saying "yesssssssss masssssterrrrrr. yeeeesssssssssss"
These two fellows design and build new ant technologies like:
-Flying ants
-new scents for the queen to control her armies and workers
-heavy ant building equipment to build chanbers faster
-super ant incubation tanks to you get your young larvi to mature faster.
i espeshally like the new scents the queen can excrete. they can be anything from giving her a longer range to control her ant workers and armies, telling her armies to go into specific formations "Massssterrr. we have done ettt. We have perfected the Flanking Manuver for her magisty. Now our armies will be unstopable"
"Good Antgore. Good! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH"
most of it is civ building but there are dangers to watchout for. other ant colonies you have to fight...and eat. big spiders you have to kill and other nasty bugs. Natural disasters like flash floods (watering the lawn) wind storms (lawn mowers) the GIANT NOSE (a curious dog)
and the worst of all the sun exploding (little bobby with a magnifying glass)
there is her army
workers
and hunter gatherers (sp)
all rendered in 3d with a 3/4 view. You have to control them all. balance them all. basically a sim and rts with a cute theme.
[[[Note. Phil C here mentioned to me i need a spell checker. bah. bugger off. pun intended :D]]]
04/04/2001 (8:44 am)
ANT WARSyour a quuen ant and have a colony. you have to build and organise your ant underlings.
you have to have them build birthing chambers and storrage chambers.
But its more than just the borring regular old ant colony.
It has character and your able to do things ants normally dont do.
There would be an Mad Ant Scientist. He wears a white lab coat and thick goggles over his eyes. He has white hair thats always a mess and sticks up in every direction. He talks in a thick german accent :)
He has an assistant. His name is Antgore. He wears a skull cap, has a hump on his throax, and drags one leg behind him while saying "yesssssssss masssssterrrrrr. yeeeesssssssssss"
These two fellows design and build new ant technologies like:
-Flying ants
-new scents for the queen to control her armies and workers
-heavy ant building equipment to build chanbers faster
-super ant incubation tanks to you get your young larvi to mature faster.
i espeshally like the new scents the queen can excrete. they can be anything from giving her a longer range to control her ant workers and armies, telling her armies to go into specific formations "Massssterrr. we have done ettt. We have perfected the Flanking Manuver for her magisty. Now our armies will be unstopable"
"Good Antgore. Good! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH"
most of it is civ building but there are dangers to watchout for. other ant colonies you have to fight...and eat. big spiders you have to kill and other nasty bugs. Natural disasters like flash floods (watering the lawn) wind storms (lawn mowers) the GIANT NOSE (a curious dog)
and the worst of all the sun exploding (little bobby with a magnifying glass)
there is her army
workers
and hunter gatherers (sp)
all rendered in 3d with a 3/4 view. You have to control them all. balance them all. basically a sim and rts with a cute theme.
[[[Note. Phil C here mentioned to me i need a spell checker. bah. bugger off. pun intended :D]]]
#10
You can take a game concept, and do two implementations of it, and STILL come up with something different. A great example of this is Worms.
Worms 1 looks completely different to Worms 2, the core gameplay is the same, but stylistically it feels very different.
I think thats the point really, look for a style with the things your trying to create. Simply following the latest formula will never really cut it.
Most of my idea's come from thinking about some kind of AI or procedural content, maybe thats me as a programmer, or maybe its because the biggest resource I have is me (i.e. I have unlimited access to me :))
Think about the best points of your idea and focus on making those work. If the individual things work in isolation, then the whole should work as well.
Phil.
04/04/2001 (8:49 am)
Well, it really is the "style" of an implementation that people look for. You can take a game concept, and do two implementations of it, and STILL come up with something different. A great example of this is Worms.
Worms 1 looks completely different to Worms 2, the core gameplay is the same, but stylistically it feels very different.
I think thats the point really, look for a style with the things your trying to create. Simply following the latest formula will never really cut it.
Most of my idea's come from thinking about some kind of AI or procedural content, maybe thats me as a programmer, or maybe its because the biggest resource I have is me (i.e. I have unlimited access to me :))
Think about the best points of your idea and focus on making those work. If the individual things work in isolation, then the whole should work as well.
Phil.
#11
Personaly, I have seen a hundred different implimentations of every genre out there, and I'm tired. There aren't three pc titles on the way out that I have the slightest urge to play. Let established game developers make the same old rehashes. The independant game dev. community where innovation can actually happen. We arent making a dime, so theres nothing to lose. I have spent the last few years making small games that none of you will ever hear of. I dont take a loss from putting together stupid games that make no sense, I dont have to worry about a publisher rushing my game out the door before its even done, and I dont realy care if no one likes my games. Truth be told, I'm probably not going to make millions in the game industry, but I may make a few great games. So, what the heck.
-maurice
04/04/2001 (8:49 am)
I'm always pleased when professionals from the industry put in thier two cents :)Personaly, I have seen a hundred different implimentations of every genre out there, and I'm tired. There aren't three pc titles on the way out that I have the slightest urge to play. Let established game developers make the same old rehashes. The independant game dev. community where innovation can actually happen. We arent making a dime, so theres nothing to lose. I have spent the last few years making small games that none of you will ever hear of. I dont take a loss from putting together stupid games that make no sense, I dont have to worry about a publisher rushing my game out the door before its even done, and I dont realy care if no one likes my games. Truth be told, I'm probably not going to make millions in the game industry, but I may make a few great games. So, what the heck.
-maurice
#12
04/04/2001 (8:51 am)
I was just tlaking with some non-gamer sports fans and they think the virtual sport league idea is awesome!
#13
oh wait, CliffyB already pitched that idea.
hmm, I think a 3rd Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fighting/action game would be very badass. With Oni-type fighting.
Duncan
04/04/2001 (9:00 am)
You would recreate New York City to scale and have 4 million unique looking and sounding individuals that you can interact with and you can have 500,000 of them on the screen at the same time when you join them in Times Square for the New Year's Eve ball drop. That's when the aliens attack and severely damage the city, so all of the buildings have to be half-destroyed as the city is plunged into chaos and eternal night. Then you and your band of 10,000 resistance fighters lead the charge with 50 different weapons and squad based tactics and the game would toggle between first person, third person, top down and map views and on and on and on and on and on...oh wait, CliffyB already pitched that idea.
hmm, I think a 3rd Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fighting/action game would be very badass. With Oni-type fighting.
Duncan
#14
But you know what, that's the way it will always be and there's nothing more we should expect. When was the last time you saw anything other than technical innovation in a movie? What was the last original novel you read? What about a painting?
By far ***most*** creative works are ***not*** original or innovative. They can't be! There are not enough totally original ideas available--but there are many untapped unique methods and styles of implementation. And there are many spins on stories to still be told. So, this is where we see some originality.
I'm not saying that there are no more completely original game design concepts left to invent, but there have only been 10 or so original game concepts ***ever invented***, so I don't hold much hope of seeing many more, unless advancing or new technology makes something possible.
What was the last completely original game? In my book, it's Tetris. Most so-called original games build upon something before it, and thus is really just a new implementation of a previous game.
I'm willing to bet $1000 that we will not see a truly original game idea in this thread--only new spins on previously done ideas.
Scott, 3DR
04/04/2001 (9:05 am)
Maurice, I'm not seeing much innovation or originality from indies, garage developers or professionals.But you know what, that's the way it will always be and there's nothing more we should expect. When was the last time you saw anything other than technical innovation in a movie? What was the last original novel you read? What about a painting?
By far ***most*** creative works are ***not*** original or innovative. They can't be! There are not enough totally original ideas available--but there are many untapped unique methods and styles of implementation. And there are many spins on stories to still be told. So, this is where we see some originality.
I'm not saying that there are no more completely original game design concepts left to invent, but there have only been 10 or so original game concepts ***ever invented***, so I don't hold much hope of seeing many more, unless advancing or new technology makes something possible.
What was the last completely original game? In my book, it's Tetris. Most so-called original games build upon something before it, and thus is really just a new implementation of a previous game.
I'm willing to bet $1000 that we will not see a truly original game idea in this thread--only new spins on previously done ideas.
Scott, 3DR
#16
Basically, if you give a game designer free reign, and they havent much experience, they tend to just grab at all the genre's they know about and try and use EVERYTHING as an idea.
Here's how it works.. imagine a store full of tins of idea's. Imagine a designer with an empty trolley.
Management say "give us a design", designer things "lets go shopping!". In sweep mode, the designer runs along the isles, scooping things from his current favourite game into his shopping trolley.
At the end, you end up with something that completely loses all coherency.
Anyone seen anything else like this?
Phil.
04/04/2001 (9:11 am)
One of the problems Ive seen with inexperienced game designers is what I call the "supermarket sweep" mentality.Basically, if you give a game designer free reign, and they havent much experience, they tend to just grab at all the genre's they know about and try and use EVERYTHING as an idea.
Here's how it works.. imagine a store full of tins of idea's. Imagine a designer with an empty trolley.
Management say "give us a design", designer things "lets go shopping!". In sweep mode, the designer runs along the isles, scooping things from his current favourite game into his shopping trolley.
At the end, you end up with something that completely loses all coherency.
Anyone seen anything else like this?
Phil.
#17
Working title: My Little Pony Hunter 3D
Part 1: Children could pick out their pony and dress him/her up so that it looks really cute. They could paint their pony and braid its mane but absolutely no branding with hot irons...that would be cruel! Then they could post their pony online and compare it to other ponies made by other little kids around the world. When they have finished with their pony they would "release" it into the wild so that it lives a long a happy life and have little baby ponies.
Part 2: with an arsenal of assault weapons that would make Duke drool, Dad can hunt the pony down and blow it up real good. "Yeee-haw! Hey kids, c'mere and look at yer pony now." There could even be a secret code for unlocking special animals like Bambi's mother and Stuart Little the talking mouse.
;-)
04/04/2001 (9:14 am)
How 'bout a game the whole family can play? Something fun for kids AND adults alike.Working title: My Little Pony Hunter 3D
Part 1: Children could pick out their pony and dress him/her up so that it looks really cute. They could paint their pony and braid its mane but absolutely no branding with hot irons...that would be cruel! Then they could post their pony online and compare it to other ponies made by other little kids around the world. When they have finished with their pony they would "release" it into the wild so that it lives a long a happy life and have little baby ponies.
Part 2: with an arsenal of assault weapons that would make Duke drool, Dad can hunt the pony down and blow it up real good. "Yeee-haw! Hey kids, c'mere and look at yer pony now." There could even be a secret code for unlocking special animals like Bambi's mother and Stuart Little the talking mouse.
;-)
#18
He originally got no money from his invention (typical).
Actually, tetris was actually not an original idea either, he copied the idea from a russian game for kids made out of wooden blocks. A bit like a jigsaw.
He simply saw that if he did it so that when you completed a line it was removed it would be a nice change.
Evolution rather than revolution in games seems the norm.
On the same program there was a guy called Matthew Smith (he did loads of early games for the spectrum, which was massive here in the UK). If ever there was an anti-drugs poster child, HE is it :))
Phil.
04/04/2001 (9:17 am)
Funny Scott should mention Tetris. I saw a program a couple of nights ago which had the inventor in.He originally got no money from his invention (typical).
Actually, tetris was actually not an original idea either, he copied the idea from a russian game for kids made out of wooden blocks. A bit like a jigsaw.
He simply saw that if he did it so that when you completed a line it was removed it would be a nice change.
Evolution rather than revolution in games seems the norm.
On the same program there was a guy called Matthew Smith (he did loads of early games for the spectrum, which was massive here in the UK). If ever there was an anti-drugs poster child, HE is it :))
Phil.
#19
-maurice
04/04/2001 (9:17 am)
Phil, you mean the first person-real time strategy-adventure game with rpg elements, oh yeah, and its on-line! yeah I know what you mean. advancing computer power makes crap like that possible. Not that blending game types is a bad idea, but its easily overdone.-maurice
#20
What your describing is a real problem when developers try to make a game that's a jack-of-all-trades, and therefore a master of known.
This is a HUGE reason why critically acclaimed games like System Shock (1 & 2), Deus Ex, Battlezone and other highly mixed genre games do not sell well--or at least never become superhits. For example, I like pure action games, therefore I stay away from shooters than blend in RPG and stealth elements.
But really this gets into another fascinating topic, the merits of game focus. And usually, the better focused games appeal to the most players, which goes against what most people would think because most people think that you want to design a game that has broad appeal by including diversity of gameplay. But that's flat-out wrong, but luckily few developers realize this, giving us developers that do a distinct advantage. ;-)
Scott, 3DR
04/04/2001 (9:19 am)
Phil,What your describing is a real problem when developers try to make a game that's a jack-of-all-trades, and therefore a master of known.
This is a HUGE reason why critically acclaimed games like System Shock (1 & 2), Deus Ex, Battlezone and other highly mixed genre games do not sell well--or at least never become superhits. For example, I like pure action games, therefore I stay away from shooters than blend in RPG and stealth elements.
But really this gets into another fascinating topic, the merits of game focus. And usually, the better focused games appeal to the most players, which goes against what most people would think because most people think that you want to design a game that has broad appeal by including diversity of gameplay. But that's flat-out wrong, but luckily few developers realize this, giving us developers that do a distinct advantage. ;-)
Scott, 3DR
Torque Owner Jeff Tunnell
This is a little off from Mathew's idea because these are all ideas that I think are marketable, and need to be created for the GarageGames site. This will be an ongoing discussion, so I won't get a chance to get all of my ideas out here. I'm going to start off with some ideas that I call the "blinding flash of the obvious", and eventually move on to the more esoteric concepts.
Core game ideas.
Since the V12 supplies you with the best networking in the industry, the first thing to do is exploit that feature to the max. Here we go:
On Field Sports:
All sports games lately have been focusing on flash and glitter, adding TV style after play huddles scenes, players scratching their balls, spitting, dancing, etc. The play mechanic has not changed for a long time. If the V12 engine can handle 64 simultaneous players in FPS death match, it can surely handle 22 football players on the field at once. Each position is handled by a real player, and games are team based. However, instead of making up CTF and Rabbit rules such as those used in Tribes, the rules are already established.
It will be important to make each position skill based, so players get good at their respective positions. There needs to be a community area where teams are created, players recruited, leagues formed and administered, etc. Since the community area is so similar for all of these concepts, maybe one group can create this, and share in the royalties with all of the other projects.
Of course, everybody will want to play quarterback, so a mechanism would have to be created that makes people want to play the other positions. In case a full team cannot be recruited, AI would have to fill in the blanks. Since so many sports games have been created by so many different groups over the years, some form of AI code should be easy to find.
Don't concentrate on the flash. As Everquest has proven, it is the gameplay, not the art that makes people want to play a game like this.
Games that could fall in this category include:
Football
Baseball
Basketball
Hockey
Soccer
OK. That's the big five. But here are some smaller ideas using the same concept.
Outdoor Sports:
Most publishers are drifting away from the hunting and fishing area. Sales have dropped and development budgets have gotten bigger. Just because publishers are tiring of the genre doesn't mean people have quit doing this. 50,000,000 people fish in the US. That is a big market. How about a hunting/fishing game combined? The V12 can handle water and terrain. The community area is around the lodge/campground. From there, the players drop into a world that has multiple people hunting. Friends can organize "drives", meet other players, etc. Ride your four wheeler or drive your pickup to your destination. At night, take a boat on the lake and do a little fishing. With the V12 it would all be seamless.
Don't underestimate the power of community for this market. Make it easy to find people, chat, and communicate with other forms. Allow people to show off their trophies. Don't allow PKP. It may sound fun to FPS developers, but that isn't what this game/community is all about.
Virtual Fun Center. Same as above, but create an on-line Malibu Fun Center with a community gathering area leading into go karts, mini-golf, bowling, pool, etc.
Virtual Amusement Park: Roller Coaster Tycoon, but with real people wandering around the park.
Some Non-Sports Ideas
Soldier Simulations:
There are starting to be a lot of realistic FPS games, but I think the surface has barely been scratched. Why not allow teams to create small platoons and stage mock battles? Set up the battles from historical data. Create real locations. Use real weapons. Make it as realistic as possible. The rules of engagement are set. The army already uses Tribes for combat practice, so you know this can work. Here are some of the different setting that could benefit from a realistic simulation:
Gulf War
Vietnam
Korea
WWII
WWI
Civil War
Medieval Wars
Roman Wars
That's enough for now. Like I said, these are all obvious, but I want to see them on GG. I'll continue to make up lists of products for underserved areas. I am most excited about ideas that haven't been done.
Jeff Tunnell GG