Is the 360 and PS3 meeting expectations?
by Ajari Wilson · in General Discussion · 09/16/2005 (5:30 am) · 15 replies
I remember saying to myself and my friends when the PS2 was first announced. "The generation after the PS2 is going to be on par with Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within movie as far as graphics, animation, and facial expression". I really thought we would be playing something that fits that Final Fantasy movie with our PS3's and Xbox 360's.
When the systems were announced at 05 E3 I was very disappointed by the 360 games shown. They seemed to be nothing more than Xbox 1.5 titles or Xbox HD. Then the KillZone demo for PS3 was shown and I was blown away. I knew we would be playing FF movie caliber games in this generation and I was right all along. But when it was confirmed that Sony's KillZone wasn't running on PS3 hardware and was just a moc up I was again very disappointed.
I turned to Gears of War (which at the time and maybe even now had choppy animation) for my next best looking game but always hoped that when Sony's first real games are shown they will be of KillZone quality as promised by Sony.
Well yesterday the first shots of Metal Gear 4 were shown and while they look great, I can't help but notice they are more polygonal and less natural looking than both the KillZone demo and the 360's Gears of War. And I feel the Gears of War backgrounds in this shot look better than the KillZones backgrounds. I know graphics will get better as developers learn the systems. It could be all on the artist. It could be all on the system or the programmers understanding of the system.
Here is one shot of each example I was talking about. How do they compare with each other to you? Do you feel that this generation is already displaying movie quality graphics and effects?
-Ajari-
Metal Gear 4 (PS3 gameplay)
www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/metalgearsolid4/screens.html?page=13
Gears of War (Xbox 360 gameplay)
www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar/screens.html?page=5
Kill Zone (movie/PS3 gameplay?)
www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/killzone2/screens.html?page=3
Final Fantasy Spirits Within (movie)
www.kinoweb.de/film2001/FinalFantasyTheSpiritsWithin/pix/ff4.jpg
When the systems were announced at 05 E3 I was very disappointed by the 360 games shown. They seemed to be nothing more than Xbox 1.5 titles or Xbox HD. Then the KillZone demo for PS3 was shown and I was blown away. I knew we would be playing FF movie caliber games in this generation and I was right all along. But when it was confirmed that Sony's KillZone wasn't running on PS3 hardware and was just a moc up I was again very disappointed.
I turned to Gears of War (which at the time and maybe even now had choppy animation) for my next best looking game but always hoped that when Sony's first real games are shown they will be of KillZone quality as promised by Sony.
Well yesterday the first shots of Metal Gear 4 were shown and while they look great, I can't help but notice they are more polygonal and less natural looking than both the KillZone demo and the 360's Gears of War. And I feel the Gears of War backgrounds in this shot look better than the KillZones backgrounds. I know graphics will get better as developers learn the systems. It could be all on the artist. It could be all on the system or the programmers understanding of the system.
Here is one shot of each example I was talking about. How do they compare with each other to you? Do you feel that this generation is already displaying movie quality graphics and effects?
-Ajari-
Metal Gear 4 (PS3 gameplay)
www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/metalgearsolid4/screens.html?page=13
Gears of War (Xbox 360 gameplay)
www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar/screens.html?page=5
Kill Zone (movie/PS3 gameplay?)
www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/killzone2/screens.html?page=3
Final Fantasy Spirits Within (movie)
www.kinoweb.de/film2001/FinalFantasyTheSpiritsWithin/pix/ff4.jpg
#2
Look at Metal Gear 3 and GT 4. They look amazing on the PS2, but nothing came close to them at launch. Nobody is going to pull off the to-the-metal tweeking that will push these systems for another 2 years.
09/16/2005 (7:24 am)
I call bullshot on the Metal Gear 4. There's something about them that isn't right. Look at Metal Gear 3 and GT 4. They look amazing on the PS2, but nothing came close to them at launch. Nobody is going to pull off the to-the-metal tweeking that will push these systems for another 2 years.
#3
09/16/2005 (8:05 am)
Metal Gear 4 and Gears of War looks sweet, but didn't a dev company come out and say the kill zone 2 video wasen't in game footage? 
#4
But as Matthew stated, I think content will be the biggest problem. Making something on that level is huge, and often it's not the core content that is the issue. It's the hours of tweaking so that it doesn't "look CG." When I watched the Doom trailer, I thought of the Killzone 2 mockup. The first-person segments of the trailer reminded me almost perfectly of KZ2.
Hmmm...
While I'm a tech geek at heart, I'm also a gamer who has been jaded by the tech-heavy game-weak "modern" industry. I get pissed when I see games advertise physics, but not use them. I get irritated when I see an amazing looking game and it ends up being an interactive movie advertised as a game. If it had been advertised as an interactive movie, I would have probably still bought it and enjoyed it, but when advertised as a game, I was hoping to actually do something with it.
09/16/2005 (8:43 am)
Our hardware has come a long way, but it still can't compete with a warehouse-sized render farm. Hopefully soon.But as Matthew stated, I think content will be the biggest problem. Making something on that level is huge, and often it's not the core content that is the issue. It's the hours of tweaking so that it doesn't "look CG." When I watched the Doom trailer, I thought of the Killzone 2 mockup. The first-person segments of the trailer reminded me almost perfectly of KZ2.
Hmmm...
While I'm a tech geek at heart, I'm also a gamer who has been jaded by the tech-heavy game-weak "modern" industry. I get pissed when I see games advertise physics, but not use them. I get irritated when I see an amazing looking game and it ends up being an interactive movie advertised as a game. If it had been advertised as an interactive movie, I would have probably still bought it and enjoyed it, but when advertised as a game, I was hoping to actually do something with it.
#5
I've also noticed that this next-gen will largely depend on the quality of the art and production values. Games like Gears of war seem well animated and well textured, with a lighting engine that simply rocks, but look at Elder scrolls 4, while 99% of what I've seen is gorgeous, the animations for enemies looks a bit....video-gamey, and clash with the rest of the environment. It will be like bad CG in movies, Jurassic park is one of the first, but the effects still stand up to this day, while Anaconda looked like crap.
I really do believe things will get better.
The Metal gear screens that depict old Snake look like clay-mation.
09/16/2005 (9:36 am)
Cliff Besinzky(sp?), designer for Epic (Unreal, UT, Gears of war), said they finally ported the game to the 360's final dev kit. And found out that they were using only one of the 3 core processors (running at 3.2 ghz each). I really believe the 360's launch will be a fanboy exclusive, because frankly, none of the games shown really excite me. Sure, they are beautiful....but Project gotham 3? As much as I like the series, I don't feel the need to spend close to a thousand dollars on a prettier version with the same gameplay.I've also noticed that this next-gen will largely depend on the quality of the art and production values. Games like Gears of war seem well animated and well textured, with a lighting engine that simply rocks, but look at Elder scrolls 4, while 99% of what I've seen is gorgeous, the animations for enemies looks a bit....video-gamey, and clash with the rest of the environment. It will be like bad CG in movies, Jurassic park is one of the first, but the effects still stand up to this day, while Anaconda looked like crap.
I really do believe things will get better.
The Metal gear screens that depict old Snake look like clay-mation.
#6
09/16/2005 (2:41 pm)
8 Cells in a PS3. One general-purpose CPU. They were only using the CPU.
#7
09/16/2005 (2:56 pm)
They all look about the same to me. I also must add that none of them impress/excite me whatsoever.
#8
09/16/2005 (10:16 pm)
It just looks like all the stuff we've already seen in Doom 3 (and similar games). It's just got a shiny new wrapper. 
#9
09/16/2005 (10:31 pm)
Who gives a hoot about graphics anymore? The only things that matter next gen are online service (in which Xbox 360 wins) and controller redesign, which console FPS's have been *screaming* for (in which the big N wins).
#10
Yeah at the moment they do look better than high end pc games, but that wont be for long.
But lets say youve only played ps2 games, then these look a whole lot better.
most likely all 3 consoles will have similar GPU capabilitys.(this is where Big N could in theory take the lead, its graphics hardware isnt finished yet)
but thats all speculation
who knows...I dont have a crystal ball ;)
I agree, Fps's on consoles Could use a new controller.
Nintendo's Online service...Marionett or whatever its called
think they will support Indie's?
Can we expect to play Orbz or Marbleblast on 360 and revolution? heh
Would be kinda nice..
Zmatrix
09/16/2005 (11:19 pm)
Being a pc gamer, youve watched the gradual advance in graphics..so it doesnt look like all that big of a step. Yeah at the moment they do look better than high end pc games, but that wont be for long.
But lets say youve only played ps2 games, then these look a whole lot better.
most likely all 3 consoles will have similar GPU capabilitys.(this is where Big N could in theory take the lead, its graphics hardware isnt finished yet)
but thats all speculation
who knows...I dont have a crystal ball ;)
I agree, Fps's on consoles Could use a new controller.
Nintendo's Online service...Marionett or whatever its called
think they will support Indie's?
Can we expect to play Orbz or Marbleblast on 360 and revolution? heh
Would be kinda nice..
Zmatrix
#11
09/16/2005 (11:31 pm)
Heck ... although I agree that high end PC games look just about the same as those above. PS2, Xbox, and Cube games are still impressive. I played Forza Motorsport for the first time the other day ... it looks great even though the hardware is 4 years old.
#12
Here is the interview.
09/18/2005 (2:38 am)
I was on IGN.com just now and Jack Tretton from Sony stated that the Killzone demo was actual gameplay running on PS3 hardware. At about 3:50 into it, the interviewer asked him twice if it was real gameplay and he confirmed it to be true. This was back in E3. I must have missed this. Do you think this guy is flat out lying or is this the truth? Here is the interview.
#13
09/18/2005 (3:41 pm)
If that was actual gameplay there would be absolutely no question about it because they would have made a really big deal about it. They would have made sure everyone knew they were looking at gameplay rather than a render.
#14
Again, that's just rumor...
09/18/2005 (3:53 pm)
The "inside scoop" that I've heard (purely rumor of course!) is that yes, it's being "played", but it's at about 10 fps. The movie was tweaked to make it seem higher performance.Again, that's just rumor...
#15
09/18/2005 (4:04 pm)
As a side note on the topic of controllers and FPS, the Nintendo: Revolution controllers look like they could really go places with FPS's. I dunno how well the system is going to do (Especially because of stigmas against Nintendo by Sony fanboys and X-box snobs), but what they've shown so far has a lot of potential. In fact, it's about the coolest thing I think I've seen from the next-gens. 
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