Argh -- hard discussions with anti-torque-types

#1 Best thing to do is just to ignore it, your always going to get people that hate Torque, or just argue because they have nothing better to do... IMO it's just waste of time that could be spent on game dev :)

#2 Yeah it started out as interesting discussion till that bonehead chimmed in. He must be what, 14?

#3 It happens all the time :(

#4

Quote:You're being a little baby like your trying to protect TV. I'm not attacking TV3d, I think its great, so get off your high horse.

personally, I think everyone here will agree, it is you that needs to learn stuff. Like, how to be less defensive, or what something is before saying something else is WAY BETTER etc etc. Perhaps TV3D is better than torque at rendering, but in its current version, it doesnt include everything required to produce a multiplayer, network ready game. Dont bother replying, you've said enough, so have I

Man I remember saying something like this very recently. Some people think your words will somehow harm their beloved product so they feel the need to rush in to the rescue. It's pretty funny actually. Your words will never effect the company, and they will never get a dime for all their good guard dog services.
-Ajari-

#5 I own a TV3D license and worked with 6.5 a bit.

I wasn't impressed. TSE is by far superior to TV3D. TGE, graphics-wise, obviously not ... but TGE gives you a bunch of other stuff that TV3D would only wish it had.

And I like how that kid made fun of the netcode. Isn't the Torque netcode like one of the best implementations available to date?

#6 The Netcode in Torque is really quite good.

To a fault, actually, as doing a single-player game can be a real pain in the butt. (Sorry, was up until 2 AM trying to solve some latency / warping issues in a single-player game).

Right now Torque has gained a little bit of popularity / notoriety because it's an indie-priced engine that's solid, mature, and has a track record. Most of the scrappy new engines out there will happily take potshots at the "big dog." Acknowledge, move on.

I saw a great quote the other day - I don't know who said it, but it's not mine. The quote was, "It's not what the engine can do, it's what you can do with the engine." And that's pretty much the case. The proof is in yet more games being released in Torque. Which admittedly have been slow in coming.

I'm really hoping that v. 1.4, 1.5 will be nicely superior releases of TGE that simplify some issues... and that TSE will do the same (I don't have TSE yet, so I'm only guessing). I think the technology behind Torque - a full-fledged and very powerful game engine - is both solid and very complex. More than anything else, it needs some cleanup and standardization - it's ad-hoc evolution is painfully obvious in places. But that lack of simplicity in some areas is a direct result of the flexibility inherent in the system.

When working with new tools, there's pretty much three stages people typically go through. The first is the honeymoon period - when you are wowed by the awesome possibilities, and it all looks so wonderful. After you dive in, you start discovering the limitations and problems with the system, and the honeymoon is over. I guess that's the "reality sets in" stage. Then you hit the third stage where you have figured out how to take advantage of the strengths of the tool, and work around the limitations, and you get a pretty solid workflow going.

A lot of people never get past stages 1 or 2.

#7 Well you tickled my mind so I went to see this engine (I have to admit I haven't heard about this engine before)

1. I hate watermarks (yeah I know, purchase it and no more watermarks)
2. There is no royalties but you can create only one product with indie license
3. Tech demo sucks (besides story, which isn't THAT bad)
Tech demo shows small part of terrain, 20 blocks (no textures, or somekind of gray/black texture representing somekind of city) one tree, one particle effect(different direction and size), one simple interior with one Interesting model(i want to say good but I sucks at modeling so someone else would be more accurate in description of that baby model)

My question is this:

Have I look the right techdemo? Is there other demo, or developed product that I could check out and form a better opinion of that engine?

I am not flaming the engine (why should I?) Altought I am really satisfied with torque I am still curious how other engines look's like :)

#8 I looked at a few engines before I came to Torque, not in anger I might add, but they all seemed to need a lot of work to get something up and running.

I quite like the idea that the basic framework is already in place. I don't have to worry about the net code, it's already there. The physics are in place, OK, so halflife2 isn't going to worry about the physics in my game overshadowing it, but at least I can make something out of it.

Within a few hours, I had a pretty decent prototype of my game up and running, admittedly, I've been using Torque for a while and I'm on my 2nd game attempt so I've got a fairly good idea of what I should be doing.

And I think that's part of the problem... familiarity. With an engine such as TV3D, you have to create your own framework, but when you do, it's your own code.. you know it inside out. You know exactly what do to to make specific things happen.
But with Torque, the framework is already in place. The code works but to make changes, you have to adjust your way of thinking to "The Torque Way" of doing things, which for some people is a massive obstacle they would rather not overcome.

I've often thought, Jeez, I wish things would work differently, then all I'd have to do to make my new feature work is This... But then I take a step back and realise why Torque works in the way it does and I begin to appreciate all the other work that Torque does for me that I've not had to do myself and I realise that While I'm not coding the core engine and other stuff I'd not even considered, I can get on with writing the game.

I read a load of complaints in that thread about the price and I get the feeling that they're missing the point. The Developer licence for the Torque engine is perfectly priced. And for what you get for your money is incredible. It's not about quantity of tools or lines of code, it's the ability and permission to use a polished, professional engine on an Indipendant game, be it a hobby project or a commercial game. Yes Torque is aging, but that's a good thing and it's evolving. I personally have no need for the TSE at the moment, the learning overhead would be just too much for me but in the future, I will probably move to it. I also think that with the aid of the Lighting pack, Torque can be made to look different and not like ANOther Torque game.

I could sit here all day and sing Torque's praises but that would get people thinking that I'm some sort of brainwashed fanboy... which is not the case at all.. The fact is, Torque does exactly what I need at the moment. I've not seen another product like it for the type of game I'm writing. If I was writing some sort of space simulator, I'd probably use a different engine because for me, the amount of changes I'd have to make would outweigh the benefits the engine gives me... but that's my own opinion.

Torque is a tool. And like all tools, they can be abused. You can use a hammer to knock a screw into a piece of wood... but it's far better to use a screwdriver. Right now, I'm using nuts and bolts and Torque is a particularly good socket set.

#9

Quote:Torque is a tool. And like all tools, they can be abused. You can use a hammer to knock a screw into a piece of wood... but it's far better to use a screwdriver. Right now, I'm using nuts and bolts and Torque is a particularly good socket set.

/me Like it ;)

#10 In fact, I was using GLScene. I had to search another engine, because GLScene was really too limited. I searched game engine around the web, and found TV. Wow, a great tool! I go to the forum and searched MMORPG. the first response was talking about TGE (I think it's the same forum mentionned up). I searched Torque, read a lot in the forums, and bought it. Now I'm a happy TGE, RTS starter Kit and TSE owner. :) Thanks TV ! :p