Xbox Live Arcade - games review
by Hokuto · in General Discussion · 08/12/2005 (7:15 am) · 55 replies
Eurogamer has an aritcle about Xbox Live Arcade with mini review of mini games
They are pretty harsh with Think Tanks, only 1/10
and
Marble Blast only 5/10
www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60366
oh well....
it is only the start... surely the next time around there will be more good games to talk about.
They are pretty harsh with Think Tanks, only 1/10
and
Marble Blast only 5/10
www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60366
oh well....
it is only the start... surely the next time around there will be more good games to talk about.
#2
08/12/2005 (7:54 am)
I haven't had a chance to play ThinkTanks on Xbox but I did play Marble Blast. I thought is was highly addictive. If my Xbox was still working I would have bought it. You can't expect every review to be good though. If I reviewed Battlefield 2 I would have given it probably a 5.5 out of 10. I see other people raving about it.
#3
08/12/2005 (7:56 am)
Agree. I'll bet his wife just broke up. I would like to see the scale he used in the reviews. 
#4
08/12/2005 (8:07 am)
Ouch.
#5
Around here we have this movie reviewer who always gets it wrong. If he says a movie sucked, it's a blockbuster. If he says it rocked, it's really a dud... I'd give bejewelled a 1/10 -- c'mon, it's ancient for gods sake. And TT and MB, I'd give them the higher scores.
The problem is that a game is going to be compared to the number one game out there. dRacer is going to be compared to NFS Underground or Burnout. People will say "oh it doesn't have this, or it sucks compared to NFS UG!!" Well, bite me.. and bite the people who dis indie games. They all suck.
- Brett
08/12/2005 (8:37 am)
That's just infuriating. Games like Bejewelled, which is a rehash of a rehash of a rehashed puzzle game gets 4 out of 10, but TT which provides way more of a challenge get 1/10?? Did this idiot even play the games he/she reviewed? It's like.. "Hrmm, never heard of this game -- I'll give it a crappy review. Oh! Look, Bejewelled!! Wheeee... I love that game, I've read about it on the net! I'll give it at least a 4."Around here we have this movie reviewer who always gets it wrong. If he says a movie sucked, it's a blockbuster. If he says it rocked, it's really a dud... I'd give bejewelled a 1/10 -- c'mon, it's ancient for gods sake. And TT and MB, I'd give them the higher scores.
The problem is that a game is going to be compared to the number one game out there. dRacer is going to be compared to NFS Underground or Burnout. People will say "oh it doesn't have this, or it sucks compared to NFS UG!!" Well, bite me.. and bite the people who dis indie games. They all suck.
- Brett
#6
I do agree with him on one thing though: Mutant Storm on the Xbox does indeed rock.
The opinions presented in this post are purely my own and do not reflect the statements or opinions of Garage Games. Except the part about Mutant Storm, Garage Games agrees that it rocks and highly recommends you buy it here.
08/12/2005 (8:54 am)
Hmm... I can understand his frustration though. If Mrs. Pac-Man is on the cover of the CD, and yet he has no access to Mrs Pac-Man, I can see why he would be put into a bitter and aggravated mood every-time he loaded the Xarcade disk. Really, you can't be pining for Mrs. Pac-Man and trying to play ThinkTanks, those two activities just aren't compatible.I do agree with him on one thing though: Mutant Storm on the Xbox does indeed rock.
The opinions presented in this post are purely my own and do not reflect the statements or opinions of Garage Games. Except the part about Mutant Storm, Garage Games agrees that it rocks and highly recommends you buy it here.
#7
they even mention about shopping around for budget releases etc... but he forgets that those TODAY budget releases and gold packs where yesterday full price
08/12/2005 (8:56 am)
Yeah surely they got their parameters wrong...they even mention about shopping around for budget releases etc... but he forgets that those TODAY budget releases and gold packs where yesterday full price
#8
This is the reality. If you have a console like XBox and then Arcade comes along, you will naturally compare the games on Arcade to the games you already have in your collection. From that perspective, the review is sadly quite accurate. Games like Bejeweled are closer to their arcade counterparts than something like Marble Blast or think tanks. As a result (and what with the service being called XBox Arcade) these arcade clone games will always score higher with players.
It really was about time someone not connected with GG or this particular community of the indie scene, reviewed the products being offered. We may not like the reviewers scores but, getting into the mainstream means offering mainstream quality! Now you know what you need to do if you want to create appealing games for xbox arcade. Games that will be liked and will appeal to the people using the service.
Bottom line : learn from what the reviewer said or go into denial mode and repeat the mistakes of the first batch of arcade titles. I think only PomPom came out of things with a good rating. It's painfully obvious to me that this happened because PomPom create arcade style games that you can simply pick up and play for 1 minute or 10 hours!
XBox Arcade users are not expecting the next epic role playing game or another GTA. They are looking for the type of quick fix games they found in the arcades. Games that swallowed their coins but, were easily forgotten about a few hours later (until they needed that next quick gaming fix). To think the service and it's users are after anything other than this, is to ensure that anything you get put on there will not be popular!
08/12/2005 (9:04 am)
@BrettThis is the reality. If you have a console like XBox and then Arcade comes along, you will naturally compare the games on Arcade to the games you already have in your collection. From that perspective, the review is sadly quite accurate. Games like Bejeweled are closer to their arcade counterparts than something like Marble Blast or think tanks. As a result (and what with the service being called XBox Arcade) these arcade clone games will always score higher with players.
It really was about time someone not connected with GG or this particular community of the indie scene, reviewed the products being offered. We may not like the reviewers scores but, getting into the mainstream means offering mainstream quality! Now you know what you need to do if you want to create appealing games for xbox arcade. Games that will be liked and will appeal to the people using the service.
Bottom line : learn from what the reviewer said or go into denial mode and repeat the mistakes of the first batch of arcade titles. I think only PomPom came out of things with a good rating. It's painfully obvious to me that this happened because PomPom create arcade style games that you can simply pick up and play for 1 minute or 10 hours!
XBox Arcade users are not expecting the next epic role playing game or another GTA. They are looking for the type of quick fix games they found in the arcades. Games that swallowed their coins but, were easily forgotten about a few hours later (until they needed that next quick gaming fix). To think the service and it's users are after anything other than this, is to ensure that anything you get put on there will not be popular!
#9
08/12/2005 (11:23 am)
What a journalistic piece of trash... these types of reviews are always fun to read... the reviewer starts off by saying he doesn't really care about any of this "sub-sharware fodder" but he had nothing better to do than lust after Ms PacMan... not that she doesn't get Robert's and Zach's heart racing. So he goes ahead and reviews every game even though all he wants to do is a little "Wonka...wonka...wonka" with Ms. PacMan. If I were him, I'd watch my back because PacMan can get jealous and might pop a cap in his.... What... oh... sorry, must go play MarbleBlast and ThinkTanks and (hush...hush) Orbz on Xbox Live Arcade.
#10
It's also important to remember that this is an OPINION piece, not everyone likes the same kind of games. The reviewer didn't like the games, and he stated so, no big deal.
The one thing I don't like about the review is that he went in EXPECTING 'sub-shareware fodder', and often when you go into something with that mentaility, your actively LOOKING for what's wrong with the game instead of actually trying to enjoy it.
The nice thing about XBox Live Arcade is you can download and try the games yourselves and decide if you like em or not, unlike with MOST demo-less console games.
08/12/2005 (11:51 am)
@Peter Well said, I think. It's also important to remember that this is an OPINION piece, not everyone likes the same kind of games. The reviewer didn't like the games, and he stated so, no big deal.
The one thing I don't like about the review is that he went in EXPECTING 'sub-shareware fodder', and often when you go into something with that mentaility, your actively LOOKING for what's wrong with the game instead of actually trying to enjoy it.
The nice thing about XBox Live Arcade is you can download and try the games yourselves and decide if you like em or not, unlike with MOST demo-less console games.
#11
Halo 2 sold the way it did ENTIRELY because of hype. Sure, Halo may be the best FPS to come out for a console, but it is far from the best game ever to come out for a console. And Halo 2 was good, but it really didn't improve much on its predecessor.
The big difference between movie reviewers and game reviewers is that many of the game reviewers are victims to hype, while most reputable movie reviewers are not. Note the difference between GameSpot and Roger Ebert.
If the game has hype, its "sound" and "graphics" scores will be higher, even if they aren't better than the next good-looking, good-sounding game. It's incredible to me that Halo is as renowned for its characters and art when the Master Chief is the MOST BLAND FREAKING HERO ever to be the lead character in a game.
[/broad generalizations]
08/12/2005 (12:24 pm)
[broad generalizations]Halo 2 sold the way it did ENTIRELY because of hype. Sure, Halo may be the best FPS to come out for a console, but it is far from the best game ever to come out for a console. And Halo 2 was good, but it really didn't improve much on its predecessor.
The big difference between movie reviewers and game reviewers is that many of the game reviewers are victims to hype, while most reputable movie reviewers are not. Note the difference between GameSpot and Roger Ebert.
If the game has hype, its "sound" and "graphics" scores will be higher, even if they aren't better than the next good-looking, good-sounding game. It's incredible to me that Halo is as renowned for its characters and art when the Master Chief is the MOST BLAND FREAKING HERO ever to be the lead character in a game.
[/broad generalizations]
#12
08/12/2005 (12:28 pm)
In reference to the above post, ala Doom 3... Complete POS, but hype ( and clout from the dev) led to it getting good reviews. 
#13
I'm sure when the 360 comes out and Arcade is no longer the red-headed stepchild of the Xbox that the tunes of the reviewers will change.
08/12/2005 (12:39 pm)
Eh. There's just no pleasing some people.I'm sure when the 360 comes out and Arcade is no longer the red-headed stepchild of the Xbox that the tunes of the reviewers will change.
#14
This is not being in denial, this is about trying to really understand what the issues are, what the target audience is, what is selling, and what they desire. I know this reviewer did not like thinktanks, but his comments on the fun and graphics are in contrast to comments we have heard from others. We always try to learn and improve.. but we did not really make any 'mistakes' with thinktanks. Is it right for XLBA? maybe, myabe not.. time will tell. In my opinion it would be bad to put too much weight on the comments of a game reviewer or game reviewers in general.
08/12/2005 (1:12 pm)
The review does not really bother me all that much. All games get bad reviews. Sucks to get a one out of ten, but eh.. what are you going to do. I would caution everyone not to take his comments and maek broad generalizations about xbox live arcade, what people want from it, and what their expectations are. The jury is still out on what is and is not working for xbox live arcade and I have learned not to react too strongly to criticism without making an attempt to get information from all sides.Quote:Bottom line : learn from what the reviewer said or go into denial mode and repeat the mistakes of the first batch of arcade titles.
This is not being in denial, this is about trying to really understand what the issues are, what the target audience is, what is selling, and what they desire. I know this reviewer did not like thinktanks, but his comments on the fun and graphics are in contrast to comments we have heard from others. We always try to learn and improve.. but we did not really make any 'mistakes' with thinktanks. Is it right for XLBA? maybe, myabe not.. time will tell. In my opinion it would be bad to put too much weight on the comments of a game reviewer or game reviewers in general.
#15
My take on any type of critics is this; I listen to what they say and take it with a grain of salt. Why, because the vast majority of them don't have the experience of creating a game, movie, etc.
08/12/2005 (1:16 pm)
@Brett - I share your feelings about how games are compared to others but I found myself doing the same thing comparing my little racing project to yours and Ward De Langhe's Nitro and thinking.. "WOW, I have a long way to go."My take on any type of critics is this; I listen to what they say and take it with a grain of salt. Why, because the vast majority of them don't have the experience of creating a game, movie, etc.
#16
If something we make or helped make gets a bad review, we shrug and say the reviewer doesn't know what he is talking about. If something we write or help write gets a good review, we are all happy and excited. Do most of us learn anything from a bad review. I would say no. Look at Pariah. They released a multiplayer demo and the people downloading it nearly universally said WTF this is like a poor mans Unreal Tourey mod without the fun. The reviewers universally stated that the preview code was ok but, needed some work to make it into something special. Come the day of release, there were no noticable improvements from the preview code. The multiplayer still smelled like a cheap first attempt at an unreal mod and the game universally panned.
I always try to tell indies here that the opinions of your intended audience are what matter most. It isn't the reviewers words you should be taking with a pinch of salt but, rather the praise of your fellow indies. Why? Well for one thing your fellow indies are NOT your intended audience (unless you are writing a game engine or a content creation tool). With all the best intentions in the world, your fellow indies will most likely not be buying your game or if they do they will not be playing it to any great extent. They can't also be writing their own games at the same time as playing yours! Your fellow indies will also try not to hurt your feelings when commenting on your work. To understand better what I mean, read some of the comments for many of the plans. Try to look objectively at the screenshots posted and then (even if only to yourself) say what you really think of most of them. Now imagine what someone used to playing such console games as POP (prince of persia), Burnout etc. etc. would see.
The reviewer IS that games player! He/She is saying what impression they got from the game. If they just couldn't get past the poor graphics, then chances are most other players will fall at the same hurdle. Remember your intended audience does not have the boundless enthusiasm for your baby (game) that you do. They have to make a full judgement on their first few minutes of gameplay. If those first few minutes suck then, no matter how much you try to say otherwise, they will think your game as a whole sucks.
If you simply dismiss criticism then no lesson is learned and the next game you make will most likely have the same flaws and meet with the same fate.
08/12/2005 (1:58 pm)
The problem I have found (and this is from working for major game labels as well as being an indie) is that they/we don't listen to what is being said by the very people we are trying to sell our games to.If something we make or helped make gets a bad review, we shrug and say the reviewer doesn't know what he is talking about. If something we write or help write gets a good review, we are all happy and excited. Do most of us learn anything from a bad review. I would say no. Look at Pariah. They released a multiplayer demo and the people downloading it nearly universally said WTF this is like a poor mans Unreal Tourey mod without the fun. The reviewers universally stated that the preview code was ok but, needed some work to make it into something special. Come the day of release, there were no noticable improvements from the preview code. The multiplayer still smelled like a cheap first attempt at an unreal mod and the game universally panned.
I always try to tell indies here that the opinions of your intended audience are what matter most. It isn't the reviewers words you should be taking with a pinch of salt but, rather the praise of your fellow indies. Why? Well for one thing your fellow indies are NOT your intended audience (unless you are writing a game engine or a content creation tool). With all the best intentions in the world, your fellow indies will most likely not be buying your game or if they do they will not be playing it to any great extent. They can't also be writing their own games at the same time as playing yours! Your fellow indies will also try not to hurt your feelings when commenting on your work. To understand better what I mean, read some of the comments for many of the plans. Try to look objectively at the screenshots posted and then (even if only to yourself) say what you really think of most of them. Now imagine what someone used to playing such console games as POP (prince of persia), Burnout etc. etc. would see.
The reviewer IS that games player! He/She is saying what impression they got from the game. If they just couldn't get past the poor graphics, then chances are most other players will fall at the same hurdle. Remember your intended audience does not have the boundless enthusiasm for your baby (game) that you do. They have to make a full judgement on their first few minutes of gameplay. If those first few minutes suck then, no matter how much you try to say otherwise, they will think your game as a whole sucks.
If you simply dismiss criticism then no lesson is learned and the next game you make will most likely have the same flaws and meet with the same fate.
#17
i wouldnt even consider such a juvenile description a real review. it really sounds like the reviewer probably saw this was one of the few 3d games on xbox live and automatically considered commercial 3d games as a basis for comparison.
hey it could be worse. TT coudlve got the 0/10 that atomaders got.
08/12/2005 (2:02 pm)
"An appallingly limited multiplayer online deathmatch game with floaty tanks and some of the worst 3D graphics we've ever seen on an Xbox. At no stage in the history of gaming has this sort of sub-par drivel been acceptable. Neeeeeext."i wouldnt even consider such a juvenile description a real review. it really sounds like the reviewer probably saw this was one of the few 3d games on xbox live and automatically considered commercial 3d games as a basis for comparison.
hey it could be worse. TT coudlve got the 0/10 that atomaders got.
#18
No but they know what they like. You don't have to be a mechanic to know if a car runs good or not. You don't have to be a fahsion designer to have a valid opinion on someones outfit. You don't have to be a film director to know if you enjoyed a movie or not. With that said, I do feel the reviewer's opinion/score was way lower than it should have been when it came to Think Tanks though. Not horrible graphics, but a little bland. Controlls are maybe a little floaty and sluggish but their tanks with brains on top of them, what do you expect. This isn't saying much but I personally consider Think Tanks to be one of the better games on XBLA right now. Could it have been better? Definatley yeah. Maybe a Think Tanks 2 is in the works?
-Ajari-
08/12/2005 (2:23 pm)
Quote:My take on any type of critics is this; I listen to what they say and take it with a grain of salt. Why, because the vast majority of them dont have the experience of creating a game, movie, etc.
No but they know what they like. You don't have to be a mechanic to know if a car runs good or not. You don't have to be a fahsion designer to have a valid opinion on someones outfit. You don't have to be a film director to know if you enjoyed a movie or not. With that said, I do feel the reviewer's opinion/score was way lower than it should have been when it came to Think Tanks though. Not horrible graphics, but a little bland. Controlls are maybe a little floaty and sluggish but their tanks with brains on top of them, what do you expect. This isn't saying much but I personally consider Think Tanks to be one of the better games on XBLA right now. Could it have been better? Definatley yeah. Maybe a Think Tanks 2 is in the works?
-Ajari-
#19
08/12/2005 (2:26 pm)
Quote:If we "meet the same fate" with the next games as we met with Marble Blast and Think Tanks, we'll all be very happy.
If you simply dismiss criticism then no lesson is learned and the next game you make will most likely have the same flaws and meet with the same fate.
#20
What a load of crap, in regard to this situation.... A review and critisism would list reaons why the game faired poorly... This was a 3 sentance insult. There was nothing to dismiss... This guy simply stated his feelings without any rhyme or reasons,a nd quite in articulately at that ( ya ya spelling )... Why should he be given any credance?
08/12/2005 (2:31 pm)
Quote:If you simply dismiss criticism then no lesson is learned and the next game you make will most likely have the same flaws and meet with the same fate.
What a load of crap, in regard to this situation.... A review and critisism would list reaons why the game faired poorly... This was a 3 sentance insult. There was nothing to dismiss... This guy simply stated his feelings without any rhyme or reasons,a nd quite in articulately at that ( ya ya spelling )... Why should he be given any credance?
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