Dungeon, Forest, City or Other?
by Dreamer · in General Discussion · 04/29/2005 (10:45 am) · 13 replies
I'm working on an RPG and am now to the point of considering the starting area for the player(s).
I'm considering the pro's and con's of each type of starting area, and while I know that Cities are typically the main starting areas for a player, in a fantasy RPG, I'm beginning to think dropping the player into a dark dungeon to start and having them fight their way out and solve puzzles, etc might be kinda fun too.
I don't really want to do it like everyone else and have the player start in a city, but I'm afraid dropping a player into a forest might be a little confusing to a new player as well.
Anyways looking for comments on this subject, what in your opinion is the most fun place to startout a new RPG character?
I'm considering the pro's and con's of each type of starting area, and while I know that Cities are typically the main starting areas for a player, in a fantasy RPG, I'm beginning to think dropping the player into a dark dungeon to start and having them fight their way out and solve puzzles, etc might be kinda fun too.
I don't really want to do it like everyone else and have the player start in a city, but I'm afraid dropping a player into a forest might be a little confusing to a new player as well.
Anyways looking for comments on this subject, what in your opinion is the most fun place to startout a new RPG character?
#2
04/29/2005 (11:06 am)
I think that as long as you have a good plot device to explain why the player is starting where he/she starts, you should be good to go. 
#3
Is it a single-player adventure? Because if things are persistent and you keep dropping characters into horrible battle situations as their primary hub, things can get frustrating fast.
04/29/2005 (11:18 am)
Oooh. Panzer Dragoon Saga...Is it a single-player adventure? Because if things are persistent and you keep dropping characters into horrible battle situations as their primary hub, things can get frustrating fast.
#4
04/29/2005 (11:23 am)
Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn also starts players smack in the middle of a dungeon, and that is one of my favorite games. 
#5
Personally I think you should either place them in a place thats exciting and attention grabbing or intriguing and mysterious...
either catch their initial attention by action, creepiness, or intrigue
if you start in a boring city it might be too easy for the player to lose interest, unless their is something that gets their attention there...
the first few minutes can easily be the most important
at least thats my opinion :)
04/29/2005 (11:48 am)
I like the way LoTekK put itQuote:I think that as long as you have a good plot device to explain why the player is starting where he/she starts, you should be good to go.
Personally I think you should either place them in a place thats exciting and attention grabbing or intriguing and mysterious...
either catch their initial attention by action, creepiness, or intrigue
if you start in a boring city it might be too easy for the player to lose interest, unless their is something that gets their attention there...
the first few minutes can easily be the most important
at least thats my opinion :)
#6
a) it's hard to get lost on an island
b) it's easy to get back to your "safe zone"
c) it gives the idea that "anything could happen"
I would really try hard to avoid issues like getting lost early. After playing games that dropped you in some large place right off the bat, with a million places you can go, it is easy to get lost, then confused, then angry, and then just put the game aside. Starting with something more simplistic (even if it's a dungeon near a city, anything) almost always makes it easier for the player to get immersed in the setting.
Just don't make the first place small and convoluted. :P
04/29/2005 (11:55 am)
When I was figuring out mine (more or less exactly the same issues you are having), I tried finding a place in my world that would make sense to start in. I chose a small cavernous island, because:a) it's hard to get lost on an island
b) it's easy to get back to your "safe zone"
c) it gives the idea that "anything could happen"
I would really try hard to avoid issues like getting lost early. After playing games that dropped you in some large place right off the bat, with a million places you can go, it is easy to get lost, then confused, then angry, and then just put the game aside. Starting with something more simplistic (even if it's a dungeon near a city, anything) almost always makes it easier for the player to get immersed in the setting.
Just don't make the first place small and convoluted. :P
#7
For instance, if your game does NPC interaction really well, you could start it off with an NPC conversation. If the game does giant breathtaking outdoor environments, you could start the player off overlooking some nice scenery. If the game has an awesome battle system, start the player out with some fun combat.
04/29/2005 (12:21 pm)
One idea might be to start off the game in a place that really shows off the cool features of your game, so that the player immediately sees why your game is special.For instance, if your game does NPC interaction really well, you could start it off with an NPC conversation. If the game does giant breathtaking outdoor environments, you could start the player off overlooking some nice scenery. If the game has an awesome battle system, start the player out with some fun combat.
#8
04/29/2005 (3:09 pm)
Ok, those are all pretty good ideas, but what about starting out on a new character is your favorite part? For instance, do you like to explore a dank dark dungeon, browse the shops of the city, or spend time smacking down fairies in the forest? 
#9
Maybe give the illusion of danger for the first quest, but not any real danger to the point where they are likely to die in the first few minutes of playing.
I think a small town would offer the feeling of safety, but force them to explore outside of the city shortly afterwards.
05/09/2005 (6:50 am)
Perhaps starting the player in a small town, not quite a city, and have them venture into a forest nearby to retrieve something. Have the player follow a path through the forest to a hermits hut or something where there isn't much threat (but still involves exploration) until the player understands how to interact with the world. Maybe give the illusion of danger for the first quest, but not any real danger to the point where they are likely to die in the first few minutes of playing.
I think a small town would offer the feeling of safety, but force them to explore outside of the city shortly afterwards.
#10
As far as what gamers like to do when they start? Hmm.. Here is my 2 cents..
Test the limits and boundaries of their character: I love nothing more than chargin into battle as soon as I roll up a character. I want to get familiar with the controls and learn about the limits of my combat ability. After some time (depending on the complexity of the game it could be 10 mins it could be several hours) I dig a little bit into the lore an dlook for productive quests and adventures with other people.
The level grind: you and I have talked extensively about this and you have a some good ideas on it IMO. I just want to nudge you with a friendly reminder to try and avoid the grind scenario as much as possible. Yes all other games do it, yes players always have an easy goal to have waved infront of them "Gee if only I was 2 levels higher I could whack that mob.." but we both know there is more to entice players than the lure of simple experience. I am a firm believer in making a level less adventure so that a new player can walk in and at least be helpful in the adventure sgoing on around him. MAke the game about the adventure not about the ammount of time a person has to sit at their computer instead of being with their families etc.
Good luck with your RPG. Sounds like you are pretty dedicated to it.
Mark
06/26/2005 (1:46 pm)
Hey Steve, nice to see you are moving forward with your stuff. Torque is a great tool and you seem to be all over it =).As far as what gamers like to do when they start? Hmm.. Here is my 2 cents..
Test the limits and boundaries of their character: I love nothing more than chargin into battle as soon as I roll up a character. I want to get familiar with the controls and learn about the limits of my combat ability. After some time (depending on the complexity of the game it could be 10 mins it could be several hours) I dig a little bit into the lore an dlook for productive quests and adventures with other people.
The level grind: you and I have talked extensively about this and you have a some good ideas on it IMO. I just want to nudge you with a friendly reminder to try and avoid the grind scenario as much as possible. Yes all other games do it, yes players always have an easy goal to have waved infront of them "Gee if only I was 2 levels higher I could whack that mob.." but we both know there is more to entice players than the lure of simple experience. I am a firm believer in making a level less adventure so that a new player can walk in and at least be helpful in the adventure sgoing on around him. MAke the game about the adventure not about the ammount of time a person has to sit at their computer instead of being with their families etc.
Good luck with your RPG. Sounds like you are pretty dedicated to it.
Mark
#11
-Peter
06/26/2005 (3:49 pm)
You must be talking about one of those massive online games right? Because if its a one person RPG like on the SNES then you should probably have a story which would quickly dictate where your character should start. If you don't have a plot and don't really expect to write one then I would say have the player come out fighting. I always liked games were you start off with someone on your team who is a good 10 levels higher then you just so you can see some of the cool attacks that you can look forward to getting. Of course if you don't really have a plot I probably won't be the one playing it.-Peter
#12
Story matters greatly in a RPG.
06/26/2005 (4:37 pm)
I liked how Daggerfall started you in a dungeon by explaining it as a shipwreck. The dungeon taught you all the basics so that by the time you got out, you were ready for the city and other locals.Story matters greatly in a RPG.
#13
I say, give them an option.
I plan to integrate this automaticly at the time of creation, but it could be done with a simple query like:
Start where?
- Home //Character's house.
- Local Tavern //Looking to join an adventuring party.
- Entering City //Welcome to (city name)!
- Escaping //Escape your captors to freedom!
- Midst Of Battle //At a fight, armed and ready!
Then the game can set things in motion or put the player at their desired area of interest. They need to be involved somewhere, though, or it just shouldn't be a RPG.
06/27/2005 (8:12 am)
I think the best way for starting out a new player is by appealing to their character directly, though there will be some who will want to start off on friendly ground just to learn.I say, give them an option.
I plan to integrate this automaticly at the time of creation, but it could be done with a simple query like:
Start where?
- Home //Character's house.
- Local Tavern //Looking to join an adventuring party.
- Entering City //Welcome to (city name)!
- Escaping //Escape your captors to freedom!
- Midst Of Battle //At a fight, armed and ready!
Then the game can set things in motion or put the player at their desired area of interest. They need to be involved somewhere, though, or it just shouldn't be a RPG.
Torque Owner David Tiernan