Porn (& Violence) in Games Rant
by Leroy Frederick · in General Discussion · 04/19/2005 (6:14 am) · 48 replies
This rant or opinion came about from the following post so please feel free to read it for background
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=18194
and i thought it might be interesting to give some food for thought regrading sex and violence in games and a few things for people to think about, consider and discuss.
It comes in two parts, but it's well worth the read in my opiney ;-), enjoy
Part 1/2
Sex will often bring up ethics and morals more then the standard violence where exposed to everyday.
But then again, a kid can't buy a porn mag (legally) but they can happily buy a paper for a fraction of the price and see a womans mah-jong's in the same way?
So i don't know if sex gets that real a hard deal in terms of ethics and morals in these times.
But none the less, there is a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to violence and sex.
The funny thing is, people are always quick to say that good causes, charity events and educational things have a positive affect on people, but when it comes to violence/sex or general commercial endevours, it's nothing to do with them, it can't have a negative effect, it's up to the parents to be parents and not the adults making the stuff blah, blah, blah. i also find this hypocritical, so i guess it works both ways! The ways of the world are generally hypocritical, that's why i say be 'in the world' and 'not of it' ;)
Regarding porn of any form as a medium (games, mags, videos etc), it's not something i try to watch or advacate. Why not, because i'm a nun, no, because i'm really feminst chick pretending to be a male, nop
just because i wouldn't want my little sis (10 years old now, getting big fast) exposed to it or doing it as a so-called career, nor my mum, older sister, younger cousins, aunties or any female i know and love.
In this respect, i therefore can't enjoy and/or represent it just because it's (hopefully) people i don't know and love, as i would be the hypocrite i mentioned above, no?
Also, my goal (or one of them) is to make a fairer playing field and have more females in gaming, and research as well as chats with women i've had shows that these kind of fhm content in game, as well as other similar content, puts other females off games.
I think women have something special to open & reveal for the industry. A new perspective on an overly male industry that we haven't/don't see yet.
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=18194
and i thought it might be interesting to give some food for thought regrading sex and violence in games and a few things for people to think about, consider and discuss.
It comes in two parts, but it's well worth the read in my opiney ;-), enjoy
Part 1/2
Sex will often bring up ethics and morals more then the standard violence where exposed to everyday.
But then again, a kid can't buy a porn mag (legally) but they can happily buy a paper for a fraction of the price and see a womans mah-jong's in the same way?
So i don't know if sex gets that real a hard deal in terms of ethics and morals in these times.
But none the less, there is a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to violence and sex.
The funny thing is, people are always quick to say that good causes, charity events and educational things have a positive affect on people, but when it comes to violence/sex or general commercial endevours, it's nothing to do with them, it can't have a negative effect, it's up to the parents to be parents and not the adults making the stuff blah, blah, blah. i also find this hypocritical, so i guess it works both ways! The ways of the world are generally hypocritical, that's why i say be 'in the world' and 'not of it' ;)
Regarding porn of any form as a medium (games, mags, videos etc), it's not something i try to watch or advacate. Why not, because i'm a nun, no, because i'm really feminst chick pretending to be a male, nop
just because i wouldn't want my little sis (10 years old now, getting big fast) exposed to it or doing it as a so-called career, nor my mum, older sister, younger cousins, aunties or any female i know and love.
In this respect, i therefore can't enjoy and/or represent it just because it's (hopefully) people i don't know and love, as i would be the hypocrite i mentioned above, no?
Also, my goal (or one of them) is to make a fairer playing field and have more females in gaming, and research as well as chats with women i've had shows that these kind of fhm content in game, as well as other similar content, puts other females off games.
I think women have something special to open & reveal for the industry. A new perspective on an overly male industry that we haven't/don't see yet.
#22
Because video games are evil. Especially if the run on *NIX because *NIX has daemons!
lol :)
05/05/2005 (10:54 am)
Quote:
Why the Game Industry should be held to a higher standard then any other form of media / entertainment is beyond me.
Because video games are evil. Especially if the run on *NIX because *NIX has daemons!
lol :)
#23
05/05/2005 (1:07 pm)
Doom (the original) used a daemon, too. Version 0.666, if my memory serves. :-p I think Doom 2 started at 1.666. :-p 
#24
-Peter
07/09/2005 (11:36 am)
Sex doesn't always sell. I happily bought PoP but never bought the second one because of the sex scene at the end of the first one. Now why did they do that? I didn't buy the game for the sex scene. It didn't have to be there for the plot. They lost a sale on the next game because of it. Make whatever game you want. Just keep in mind that sex doesn't always sell. Some people have morals. There's a huge demographic of people who don't want that stuff in their games and most of them are plalying Animal Crossing. Laugh if you want, but they still payed real money for it. Since we're talking about movies it may be interesting to note just how many box office hits are G or PG movies (just about all of Pixar's movies). How is that possible? Could it be that something besides sex sells?-Peter
#25
What morals would that be exactly? What's so horrible about sex that makes it moraly wrong? Really. I'm curious...
"Morals" is such an awful word (at least when used in this way), if you ask me it was made up by powermad men to get an edge to be able to gain control over "the masses".
(I haven't read most of the rest of the thread so you'll have to excuse me if I just missed something, and yep; I realize I'll probably get flamed to hell now =).
07/09/2005 (11:53 am)
Quote:Some people have morals.
What morals would that be exactly? What's so horrible about sex that makes it moraly wrong? Really. I'm curious...
"Morals" is such an awful word (at least when used in this way), if you ask me it was made up by powermad men to get an edge to be able to gain control over "the masses".
(I haven't read most of the rest of the thread so you'll have to excuse me if I just missed something, and yep; I realize I'll probably get flamed to hell now =).
#26
-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games
07/09/2005 (12:18 pm)
What I really enjoy is that it's ok to show people being shot, knifed, strangled, burned alive, having their eye gouged out, etc... though, you can't show a person licking another person's nipple on american television...-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games
#27
Restricting violence I at least see a point with (even though I don't entirely agree with it. At least not to the lengths it's taken at times, or more precisely the fact that some people really have an easy time blaming all sorts of things on violence in games/movies/comic books/whatever and then completely overlooking other much more reasonable reasons for whatever they're complaining about), but saying "ooh, you're all so morally decayed because you show some skin" I really don't get.
07/09/2005 (12:30 pm)
@Josh: Enjoy and enjoy... If I got the meaning of your post right I agree though, that is quite fucked (pun most certainly intended) up...Restricting violence I at least see a point with (even though I don't entirely agree with it. At least not to the lengths it's taken at times, or more precisely the fact that some people really have an easy time blaming all sorts of things on violence in games/movies/comic books/whatever and then completely overlooking other much more reasonable reasons for whatever they're complaining about), but saying "ooh, you're all so morally decayed because you show some skin" I really don't get.
#28
look at those same movies and look at all the violence and sexual inneundo. There full of them. It may not be full frontal intercourse but there is still plenty of sex and violence in Pixar's G rated movies. Which is why most adults can enjoy them with their kids. because the kids don't get half the jokes most of the time. Just look at Finding Nemo, withing the first 10 minutes a character gets killed.
as Magnus said what morals are those? the christians, the jews, the muslims, the hindus, the rich, the poor? There is no set of morals that are above any of the rest. Each individual person has there own. Therefore you need to take care of yourself and not worry about what others are doing.
07/09/2005 (12:38 pm)
Quote:Since we're talking about movies it may be interesting to note just how many box office hits are G or PG movies (just about all of Pixar's movies).
look at those same movies and look at all the violence and sexual inneundo. There full of them. It may not be full frontal intercourse but there is still plenty of sex and violence in Pixar's G rated movies. Which is why most adults can enjoy them with their kids. because the kids don't get half the jokes most of the time. Just look at Finding Nemo, withing the first 10 minutes a character gets killed.
Quote:Some people have morals
as Magnus said what morals are those? the christians, the jews, the muslims, the hindus, the rich, the poor? There is no set of morals that are above any of the rest. Each individual person has there own. Therefore you need to take care of yourself and not worry about what others are doing.
#29
Now if that isn't screwed up.. I don't know what is. :-\
07/09/2005 (2:49 pm)
On the subject of porn.... www.gamershell.com/news/22925.html a new PC game released... plan how 2 chars are going to have sex (demo has had over 57,000 downloads already) Now if that isn't screwed up.. I don't know what is. :-\
#30
-Peter
07/09/2005 (6:58 pm)
Woah. It seems I've hit a nerve. I'll try to clarify. I'm not trying to tell you what's right or wrong. I'm just saying some people (myself included) have a line that cannot be crossed or they won't buy the game. For me that line is sex scenes. I really don't have much of a problem with violence. Of course the beggining of Nemo... wow. That was gruesome. Yeah. Anyway, a game with 2 people having sex may get 57,000 downloads but there are just as many people out there who wouldn't download the game for the same reason. My orginal point was that you don't have to use sex to sell a game. You could use something else like game play! Now I think I may be on to something. No inneundo intended.-Peter
#31
...Oh wait, I guess I can't explain it
07/09/2005 (11:24 pm)
Quote:What's so horrible about sex that makes it moraly wrong? Really. I'm curious...I can explain that: Sex is wrong because it creates life, and anything that creates life, such as god, is obviously evil...
...Oh wait, I guess I can't explain it
#32
08/10/2005 (1:37 am)
It would be useful to research why sex is considered "immoral". I suspect you'll mostly find the thinkings of people like Plato and his influence on various Popes, and the thinking of Kellogg during the 19th century and his notion that uncontrolled release of male fluids makes one weak, and hence his ideas for discouraging anything that might cause that to happen. (Anyone remember "Purity of Essense", the secret code in Kubrik's movie "Doctor Strangelove"?) It's pointless to debate sex in any media until you go back to the root cause for why people get so upset about it, and that's gonna require some historical digging. If you can show people where their ideas came from, they may not cling to them so tightly.
#33
Plus, the commotion about gta san andreas having removed sex scenes was redicilous. Why? They REMOVED it from the game itself. It's only possible to get with hacks... Get over it.
08/12/2005 (4:02 pm)
I have no problems with violence or sex in a game. I dont play sex games, but i do play extreemly violent games like Manhunt. After a hard day of work it's fun to just kill somebody hard (but only in a game... i could never ever do it in real life... i couldnt even do it to a mouse). Plus, the commotion about gta san andreas having removed sex scenes was redicilous. Why? They REMOVED it from the game itself. It's only possible to get with hacks... Get over it.
#34
02/21/2006 (7:36 am)
In truth i feel that if parents dont want their kids playing 18+ games at age 15 or younger or any age tounger than 18 then they shouldnt buy it for them. Parents should be parents and stop letting the government do it for them. Violence and sex sells and thats true. how ever what good would it be to outlaw violent games and movies? theres violence in news and what not, and sex in literature. on a personal note i hate reading thats why i liek game development to me its the newer way to tell a story. books ot movies and now movies to games. It isnt our job to keep 18+ games out of theh ands of kids its the paretns job. as for porn i despise it, and im a guy. As for more females in games it would be cool most of the games i see have mostly male characters in em.
#35
I forget that parents usually are overprotective and don't want ther kids seeing the real world. They don't EVER want their kid to play it, so their FUCKING everyone elses enjoyment.
FIRST AMMENDMEANTIVE RIGHT
02/22/2006 (12:59 pm)
If you don't want sex in a game. don't play it! Or don't let your childeren play itI forget that parents usually are overprotective and don't want ther kids seeing the real world. They don't EVER want their kid to play it, so their FUCKING everyone elses enjoyment.
FIRST AMMENDMEANTIVE RIGHT
#36
02/24/2006 (6:52 pm)
I hear ya preach it brother fellow American
#37
02/24/2006 (7:33 pm)
I hear ya preach it brother fellow American
#38
I own and play GTA3 Vice City. However, when my 3 year old (almost 4) or my 2 year old are up and in the room, I do not go around shooting people or trigger cut scenes full of cuss words. On the contrary, I usually turn it off though if my 3 year old wants to sit on my lap then I'll just drive the cars and bikes and do stunts on the ramps. My son calls it the "car jump game" because that is the ONLY part of the game he has seen. However, I just last week bought TrackMania and Flatout so I can play those with him and remove the problem of landing on pedestrians and leaving a red streak - this was after I was unable to find a patch that removed the pedestrians. So as a parent I decided that even the chance of seeing the car hit a pedestrian was too much and took steps to buy a product that I felt he could experience. I also do not play Far Cry around him as well.
Now, as a game designer I decided that I would only make games that I'd be proud to show my wife, Mom, grandparents, and allow my children to play. If I'd be embarrassed to play it at a family reunion or to have someone see my children playing it - then I won't make it.
Why did I make this decision? Because one time, after my son was in bed and asleep I was playing Battlefield 2 online wearing headphones, my wife went to the bathroom and at that same time my son woke up and came to our room and saw me shooting the other soldiers. I didn't hear him because I had headphones on. He reached out and turned off the monitor and as I took the headphones off said to me, "No daddy." Talk about re-evaluating your hobby. So I sat him on my lap and explained to him that it was squirt guns and that they were just "falling down". And I never play a shooter with the kids up, or with headphones on. I only play if the kids are at Day Care and I have the day off. Did I lie to him in my explanation? Yes - because I had to explain it in a way he as a 3 year old could understand and process into his world view. Of course as he gets older, he will learn different, and we'll have another talk.
So yes, kids will see things, but as a parent it is my responsibility to not only protect them, but to teach them, and do my best and FIX problems that come up whether self inflicted or not.
So I won't be making sex based games. Because I'm a parent and it doesn't sit within my world view but I don't condemn those that do.
If you are going to make games with sex and over the top violence, then DON'T take Rockstar's approach and flaunt it in the face of everyone and market it to the youth inapproporately. If that makes me "puritanical" then I'm okay with it. I'm a parent and I do take my role in my kids life seriously. And if my kid ever goes to another kids house it won't be until I've been there first and talked with the parents. Anyone tries to give them something like a game or a movie that I don't approve of - I will take issue with it and I will go after the source of the issue - which is the adult not the child. Now when my kids are older, I know they will try to get things on their own, and I'll deal with them. But woe to the store that sells them cigarettes, liquor, or a game rated over their age.
Another example, when I was a kid my parents took me to see Conan. Even though it was R rated they decided to take me in to see it - they didn't know what it was about. We walked out 15 minutes into it. They did not blame the movie theatre, they blamed themselves for not finding out ahead of time.
Anyway, this is my view and some examples.
04/03/2006 (2:02 pm)
I am a parent so let me pipe in.I own and play GTA3 Vice City. However, when my 3 year old (almost 4) or my 2 year old are up and in the room, I do not go around shooting people or trigger cut scenes full of cuss words. On the contrary, I usually turn it off though if my 3 year old wants to sit on my lap then I'll just drive the cars and bikes and do stunts on the ramps. My son calls it the "car jump game" because that is the ONLY part of the game he has seen. However, I just last week bought TrackMania and Flatout so I can play those with him and remove the problem of landing on pedestrians and leaving a red streak - this was after I was unable to find a patch that removed the pedestrians. So as a parent I decided that even the chance of seeing the car hit a pedestrian was too much and took steps to buy a product that I felt he could experience. I also do not play Far Cry around him as well.
Now, as a game designer I decided that I would only make games that I'd be proud to show my wife, Mom, grandparents, and allow my children to play. If I'd be embarrassed to play it at a family reunion or to have someone see my children playing it - then I won't make it.
Why did I make this decision? Because one time, after my son was in bed and asleep I was playing Battlefield 2 online wearing headphones, my wife went to the bathroom and at that same time my son woke up and came to our room and saw me shooting the other soldiers. I didn't hear him because I had headphones on. He reached out and turned off the monitor and as I took the headphones off said to me, "No daddy." Talk about re-evaluating your hobby. So I sat him on my lap and explained to him that it was squirt guns and that they were just "falling down". And I never play a shooter with the kids up, or with headphones on. I only play if the kids are at Day Care and I have the day off. Did I lie to him in my explanation? Yes - because I had to explain it in a way he as a 3 year old could understand and process into his world view. Of course as he gets older, he will learn different, and we'll have another talk.
So yes, kids will see things, but as a parent it is my responsibility to not only protect them, but to teach them, and do my best and FIX problems that come up whether self inflicted or not.
So I won't be making sex based games. Because I'm a parent and it doesn't sit within my world view but I don't condemn those that do.
If you are going to make games with sex and over the top violence, then DON'T take Rockstar's approach and flaunt it in the face of everyone and market it to the youth inapproporately. If that makes me "puritanical" then I'm okay with it. I'm a parent and I do take my role in my kids life seriously. And if my kid ever goes to another kids house it won't be until I've been there first and talked with the parents. Anyone tries to give them something like a game or a movie that I don't approve of - I will take issue with it and I will go after the source of the issue - which is the adult not the child. Now when my kids are older, I know they will try to get things on their own, and I'll deal with them. But woe to the store that sells them cigarettes, liquor, or a game rated over their age.
Another example, when I was a kid my parents took me to see Conan. Even though it was R rated they decided to take me in to see it - they didn't know what it was about. We walked out 15 minutes into it. They did not blame the movie theatre, they blamed themselves for not finding out ahead of time.
Anyway, this is my view and some examples.
#39
it is ok to teach blowing shit up, blood stains murder theft
and all the other REAL crimes.
but a little finger sticky sticky is a problem?
that logic is Seriously flawed guys.
anyone who say's otherwise is seriously confused.
I would prefer my kid knows how to hug and stuff as opposed to bashing the neighbour kids head in with a claw hammer.
Bible Thumper's are weird ..
one minute its all gospel n stuff.
next minute its "lets kill this bastards who are having abortions!"
rofl .. insane.
Like Alan stated above.
you have to filter the material
Period.
you cannot simply state :
material unacceptable for my child it must be destroyed.
You the parent have to be the filter, by not allowing the material access.
you dont need to destroy the material.
04/03/2006 (2:22 pm)
So let me get this straight.it is ok to teach blowing shit up, blood stains murder theft
and all the other REAL crimes.
but a little finger sticky sticky is a problem?
that logic is Seriously flawed guys.
anyone who say's otherwise is seriously confused.
I would prefer my kid knows how to hug and stuff as opposed to bashing the neighbour kids head in with a claw hammer.
Bible Thumper's are weird ..
one minute its all gospel n stuff.
next minute its "lets kill this bastards who are having abortions!"
rofl .. insane.
Like Alan stated above.
you have to filter the material
Period.
you cannot simply state :
material unacceptable for my child it must be destroyed.
You the parent have to be the filter, by not allowing the material access.
you dont need to destroy the material.
#40
Just kidding, I wouldn't restrict anybody from any content personally. It's all a bunch of lazy parents who want somebody to blame for the fact that they've never taught their children right from wrong. If not games they would still find somebody to blame.
04/03/2006 (2:38 pm)
But "Fahrenheit 451" says we have to destroy the material...are you arguing with literature?Just kidding, I wouldn't restrict anybody from any content personally. It's all a bunch of lazy parents who want somebody to blame for the fact that they've never taught their children right from wrong. If not games they would still find somebody to blame.
Torque Owner Harold "LabRat" Brown
Why the Game Industry should be held to a higher standard then any other form of media / entertainment is beyond me.
I've seen PG-13 movies with more violance, blood and sex then some M (that's Mature) rated computer games. I read books as a teenager that were in the childrens section that had more violance, and sex depicted between their covers then anything I ever watched in the theatre.
I actually saw something on a news site recently that seemed fitting to this thread.
There is evidently a group of parents who are upset with George Lucas because the Revenge of the Sith is going to be PG-13 due to the violence and fights in the movie, because now "their child can't go see it". His response.... He was making a story, and he wasn't going to compromise HIS story just to sell more seats.
Now when you read that... understand that a PG-13 rating means that you must be accompanied by an adult if you are UNDER the age of 13. These parents aren't complaining because their child won't be able to see the movie, they're complaining because they can't stick some money in their kids hand and send them off to the theatre on their own.
I am a parent, I have four year old daughter, and Yes I will limit what she can or can't watch, play, or do. But you see, there's a key part of this that happens... I make sure I know what she is watching, or what games she is playing. If you are a parent and you're upset because you're child is playing computer game you find objectionable... well you need to first ask yourself, "Where did they get it, and why didn't I know about it", especially if that child is under 13 and has no job.