GG is under appreciated

#1 Amen, brother.

#2 Its just the way things work. There are always a certain percentage of people that always want more/things for free/etc, and the internet gives them voices. Its part of running *any* internet based community.

I guess the wear and tear on the GG crew is showing, but I hope the experience of GDC and seeing the incredibly positive reaction from 99% of people is enough to keep them charged in the meantime.

Keep up the unbelievably fantastic work GG. You'll have my dollars when Torque Constructor is available, thats for sure.

You could have called this the GG appreciation thread, that way we could have kept this completely positive, but you've left the door ajar for the whiners to pop in here as well. *crosses fingers*

#3 Ya know its a fact of life that you cant please everyone. No matter how hard you try. You could be giving away free money and someone would still complain. "Your not giving away enough money!" And everyone wants somthin for nothin. Bet you if they put their hard earned time in somthing like this they would charge triple.

God Bless GarageGames!

#4 Couldn't have put it better myself. I miss all of the contraversial topics like this, this is most deffinatly one of the better ones... I would have to say that the only people that are like that are the "noobies" they don't know all that much about the engine, and are frusterated and try want to get everything to make it simpler? It's a complainathon, they all bitch and moan about how they should have this and it isn't like this engine, and it should have this, this should be free, they all want something for nothing... Things don't just work like that... I don't go to the store and buy a sode, then keep getting free refills for the rest of my life...

I hear them all coming now... The complaints are echoing around as we speak... prepare yourselvs...

Here's to contraversy! --Max

#5 From my perspective, GG has a rather cool business plan (at least what I can tell of it):

They are trying to make money by helping other people make money.

They've priced an industrial-strength engine at an unbelievably low cost in order to drop the barrier to entry to almost nothing --- theoretically it was high enough to dissuade people who aren't serious at all, but still so low that a 12-year old can afford it with a couple of weeks of mowing people's lawns. I think that fact has bit them in the butt a little bit - they have probably underpriced their engine and maybe dropped the barriers to entry too far - but regardless, they've got a community of people who are interested and about more tools to make their hobby / side-job / business easier or more capable.

Now if only we had more finished games out there in this community...

#6

Quote:
You could be giving away free money and someone would still complain. "Your not giving away enough money!"

Interestingly enough, people actually argued that point around the time of the tsunami disaster. I remember people criticizing X celebrity because he didn't give as much money as celebrity Y.

Every TGE license holder thought the engine was worth $100 on the day they purchased it. I fail to see how introducing some for-pay modules makes the core engine worth less.

#7 Its because people always except a free lunch, realistically.. $100 for me is around what I spend on food and drinks during the working week. For that I bought an awesome engine.. with the source! I still wonder sometimes what the catch is :)

Cant wait until we a) get more info on constructor and b) are able to buy it and start using it.

Good work GG!

#8 C'mon, I don't see the big deal here. Whys all the sudden is everyone makin a big'ole deal about this? Who cares if people ask if it's free? If GG stops making products because people ask that then that would be rediculous. Personally, I would be happy to hear peoples thoughts on the product, good or bad. If someone asks if it is free, simply say no. They don't have to get jumped all over for asking. Like GG said, people can choose to buy it or not.

I certainly appreciate GG, our game would be nowhere w/out'em, but I myself was curious if it was to be included in the engine or not simply because I didn't know.

BTW: I plan on buying it (Constructor) 100% and I don't even know anything about it. That's how much I trust GG quality.

#9 I agree with Blake, no need to jump on people for asking. And cheers to Garage Games and Torque.

#10 To copy my post from the Constructor thread verbatim:

Whenever you get a larger community, there will be people bitching and moaning. Without GG though, I would still be stuck in my dead-end retail job doing something I hate. It is because of GG breaking down the tech barrier (and solely GG - the competitors engines always constrained me) that I am able to do development full-time now and give my dream a shot. Isn't that why you guys wanted to do this? Because it's working. :)

#11 This is not directed at people asking if something is going to be free out of curiosity. It is for people that demand free and/or snub the efforts of GG.

#12 Oh, ya that is different. Can't stand it when people just come in and try to bring everything down. I wouldn't worry though, even those people are probably still buying all the Torque products.

#13 I actually loved Pat's .plan in reference to this attitude in a number of gamedev communities (GG's is actually much cleaner than most when it comes to the attitude).

#14 From what I've experienced with online forums there are three degrees of success:
1) Everyone who knows about you loves you or ignores you.
2) There is a small percentage of people who hear about your greatness from the lovers from the first degree but get a self induced over hype about what it is they're getting. The first degree lovers in the community beat down these people.
3) The vast majority bitch and complain constantly about you but they come back to you every damn day to endure the 'pain' you are causing them. At this point your a millionaire. The first degrees are still there but they're simply tired of telling the nay sayers the same old story day in, day out. Your still gaining more people who would be 'first degree' but they join that crowd in the dark corner.

I also think "First Degree Lover" GG t-shirts would be cool ;).

#15 I gotta admit I am very stern in my opinion about certain things here. I'm very critical of myself and others. When I see something great I give it praise and when I see something I think can be improved apon I mention that as well. I like to be honest and hold nothing back, good or bad.

I love the GG community and I can deal with the comments people make when a new TSE pic is shown like "OMFG I JUST PISSED MYSELF!!!!!!" and "OH GOD YES....YES....TAKE ME GG TAKE ME!!!!" but I can't stand it when someone is so biased, blind, and a loyally owned fanboy of this engine they feel the need to compare the TSE snapshots to FarCry, Unreal Engine 3, Doom 3, and Terragen, and actually say that the TSE snapshot looks WAY better.

Can TSE look just as good as these games and programs? I don't know. Have I ever seen anything that looks as good as these other programs? Honestly no, I haven't. That doesn't mean that it still doesn't look great though. I'm just not orgasmic over it because I have seen better in my lifetime.

I don't wanna be one of those little bitch people you guys are talking about. And I admit when it comes to the technical side of game creation I'm pretty green. I'm understanding how things work more and more and asking questions is a great way to learn.

$100 for TGE is a steal and anybody that complains about the price of it is a cheap, greedy, ungreatful SOB.

I just tell it like I see it good or bad. If everybody says "oh this is great!! I'm gonna fave to wait a few minutes before I can stand up" and nobody says "well what about this" or "have you though about fixing that" and "I don't like this, here is my opinion about how it could be done better" then honestly how can this community grow. Just my 2 Rupies.
-Ajari-

#16

Quote:
Its just the way things work.

Maybe a good goal would be to make things work better. People should stop being people and start becoming human beings again, after all, we all have to live here and we all have dreams that'll never see the light of day because people always put themselves before others. If more people would start realizing that the world will never be near perfect as long as we keep it from getting there and resort to arguing a point that dosen't matter about something that can't be helped as long as we don't take action, then we're all doomed. It's not that GG is under appreciated, it's that we are - by ourselves.

My rant.

#17 Excellent posts, guys.
Well, constructive criticism is as important as constructive praise, and vice versa. Saying, "I love it! Cool!" is just as meaningless as saying, "I hate it! It sucks." IMHO, if you're going to complain, do it in a constructive manner and be specific; same thing for giving praise. Intelligent feedback is crucial for growth.

If it wasn't for GG, I'd still be making that damned protoype of my boardgame and modding other games (fixing other people's mistakes and making their games more playable--or playable period). So I vastly appreciate the efforts of the GG crew.
If I happen to make a little money from my finished game, I'd love to set up something like this eventually, helping the indie movement.
Keep up the great work, people =)

#18 Plainly saying something is good is very constructive criticism. It is helpful because implies that you couldn't find anything wrong with it. This signifies that the project is right on track, and that's an extremely useful metric for any developer. It's useful if done honestly.

Rampant fanboyism never helped anyone though :)

#19 This engine is a terrific deal at $100.00. There is a steep learning curve to get the most out of this engine. But well worth the effort.

Thanks to the entire GG staff.

#20 I think its important that people express themselves in the way thats most comfortable to them...

whether its the mushy long winded thank you's that are heartfealt... or the tough love, good job but keep it up ones.

now of course there are always the insincere over dramatic ones to get attention, though I don't think all of the deep ones are insincere... like Anton's post seems very sincere and heartfealt... I respect that if someone is comfortable enough with themselves to speak that mushy...

for others they aren't comfortable expressing themselves like that... they maybe be critics, giving a swift compilement followed by critiques... doesn't mean its less meant, just a different way of expression...

the most impressive thing about GG is that they seem to understand and accept this... too often we see people who express themselves mushy, then when someone responds the other way they take it offensively (though it simply is just the way that person expresses themself)... or when someone is a bit more critical and a tough-love type of person and someone gets mushy on them they sometimes automatically think they are insincere (even if they are being sincere)...

GG seems to respond to all of these just right, heck the times I've seen them edit posts, or aggressively mod the boards can hardly fit in my hand, which I respect.