Logitech to the rescue?
by Jake · in Hardware Issues · 03/07/2001 (4:34 pm) · 6 replies
http://www.labtec.com/press_room/index.cfm
I, like alot of other people, started playing games like Doom and Descent with the keyboard only. As time went on people started to sense the need for more accuracy and speed in thier aiming and migrated to joystick/keyboard and mouse/keyboard combos. I, however, went straight from keyboard only to a Spaceorb only configuration when they first came out(for a very short time a joystick for Descent.) This is how I played all 3D games for 3 years, up until my 3rd one broke, at which time I, like most other people, used mouse/keyboard for most games except Descent. I tried Joystick/keys for Descent for awhile, however, because joysticks are controlled with one's arm and wrist, they are not as fast or as accurate in terms of aiming as an orb.
A major limitation with the orb was that it required 2 hands, the hand not manipulating the ball was mostly keeping the contraption steady with only 2 of its fingers pressing buttons. A desktop is much better suited at keeping human interface devices steady. The Spaceball is basically a Spaceorb that uses a desktop for stability, freeing up a hand. This free hand can either use a keyboard or mouse at the same time, or yet another Spaceball. Even after Labtec's aquisition of the Spaceball technology from Spacetec, it still has not adopted a USB interface(still uses the old serial interface.) With a USB interface, a device can be used with most modern computers and consoles: PC, Machintosh, Xbox, and Indrema.
What does this mean for games? Well, for one, it can mean not fighting with camera control in games like 'Homeworld', 'Ground Control', and 'Evil Islands'. It is as natural as moving one's head. Like one's head, it does not have problems when looking straight up or down. For example, when one looks down with thier head then wants to look to the right they don't have to yaw around then pitch up like a tank turret(like controlled with a mouse), they simply twist thier head to the right. It would also mean that one doesn't have to take turns in these game moving the camera with the mouse then selecting/ordering units with the mouse. Instead, one can have complete camera control with the Spaceball at all times while simultaneously selecting/ordering units with the mouse, something that is already done in Computer Aided Drafting. Another thing it would do is make the Descent types games more popular, which publishers seem to be turning down lately due to lack of sales.
Since Logitech already has alot of thier Human Interface Devices with a USB interface, I am very hopefully they will do so with the Spaceball. I got my fingers crossed!
I, like alot of other people, started playing games like Doom and Descent with the keyboard only. As time went on people started to sense the need for more accuracy and speed in thier aiming and migrated to joystick/keyboard and mouse/keyboard combos. I, however, went straight from keyboard only to a Spaceorb only configuration when they first came out(for a very short time a joystick for Descent.) This is how I played all 3D games for 3 years, up until my 3rd one broke, at which time I, like most other people, used mouse/keyboard for most games except Descent. I tried Joystick/keys for Descent for awhile, however, because joysticks are controlled with one's arm and wrist, they are not as fast or as accurate in terms of aiming as an orb.
A major limitation with the orb was that it required 2 hands, the hand not manipulating the ball was mostly keeping the contraption steady with only 2 of its fingers pressing buttons. A desktop is much better suited at keeping human interface devices steady. The Spaceball is basically a Spaceorb that uses a desktop for stability, freeing up a hand. This free hand can either use a keyboard or mouse at the same time, or yet another Spaceball. Even after Labtec's aquisition of the Spaceball technology from Spacetec, it still has not adopted a USB interface(still uses the old serial interface.) With a USB interface, a device can be used with most modern computers and consoles: PC, Machintosh, Xbox, and Indrema.
What does this mean for games? Well, for one, it can mean not fighting with camera control in games like 'Homeworld', 'Ground Control', and 'Evil Islands'. It is as natural as moving one's head. Like one's head, it does not have problems when looking straight up or down. For example, when one looks down with thier head then wants to look to the right they don't have to yaw around then pitch up like a tank turret(like controlled with a mouse), they simply twist thier head to the right. It would also mean that one doesn't have to take turns in these game moving the camera with the mouse then selecting/ordering units with the mouse. Instead, one can have complete camera control with the Spaceball at all times while simultaneously selecting/ordering units with the mouse, something that is already done in Computer Aided Drafting. Another thing it would do is make the Descent types games more popular, which publishers seem to be turning down lately due to lack of sales.
Since Logitech already has alot of thier Human Interface Devices with a USB interface, I am very hopefully they will do so with the Spaceball. I got my fingers crossed!
#2
I checked around,
http://www.3dconnexion.com/spaceball5000.htm
http://www.3dconnexion.com/spacemouseplus.htm
... they dont list Blender or Torque or Milkshape or.... other low cost modelers. What would be involved in coding Torque to work with it?
Not that I would want to lose my trusty mouse altogether... I just thought as a supportive tool.
Let me know, cause I think they look cool, and may be intuitive to work with.
11/21/2004 (10:07 pm)
SO IS IT feasible to use a 3D mouse? I checked around,
http://www.3dconnexion.com/spaceball5000.htm
http://www.3dconnexion.com/spacemouseplus.htm
... they dont list Blender or Torque or Milkshape or.... other low cost modelers. What would be involved in coding Torque to work with it?
Not that I would want to lose my trusty mouse altogether... I just thought as a supportive tool.
Let me know, cause I think they look cool, and may be intuitive to work with.
#3
I'm on XP and I own a Logitech CYBERMAN 2 gamepad (circa. 1994).
http://www.gamersu.com/Reviews/hardware.asp?id=23
I find this:
Gametrick - http://maui-innovative.com/gt0.html
A nifty program that lets you tinker with the output of your game controller. You can take any feature of the game controller, be it a button, the HAT switch, or the axes, and make it perform keyboard & mouse functions instead. It is quite helpful for games and game emulators that don't support game controllers. Gametrick was designed to run on Windows XP and 2000. It can make use of virtually any USB game controller
My CYBERMAN has a 15-pin joystick port, NOT a USB...
QUESTION: Can I get an adapter? Can I rewire the port to be USB? Am I dead in the water with the CYBERMAN 2? I don't want to spend $500 to $600 on a new SpaceMouse.
11/21/2004 (11:17 pm)
In an effort to use a 3D Mouse like the SpaceBall....I'm on XP and I own a Logitech CYBERMAN 2 gamepad (circa. 1994).
http://www.gamersu.com/Reviews/hardware.asp?id=23
I find this:
Gametrick - http://maui-innovative.com/gt0.html
A nifty program that lets you tinker with the output of your game controller. You can take any feature of the game controller, be it a button, the HAT switch, or the axes, and make it perform keyboard & mouse functions instead. It is quite helpful for games and game emulators that don't support game controllers. Gametrick was designed to run on Windows XP and 2000. It can make use of virtually any USB game controller
My CYBERMAN has a 15-pin joystick port, NOT a USB...
QUESTION: Can I get an adapter? Can I rewire the port to be USB? Am I dead in the water with the CYBERMAN 2? I don't want to spend $500 to $600 on a new SpaceMouse.
#4
Yeah it sucks, I canned my Cyberman 2 long time ago. I do have a Microsoft Sidewinder Strategic Commander controller that is similar that is USB, it was sold as a RTS controller but it works great for FPS, and is designed much like the Cyberman2 only better I think.
one good thing is the driver is solid, and it is cheap now if you can find them, they never really caught on with the RTS crowd it seems, I got mine for like $19,.99 US and that was at least a year and a half ago. I might just get another one so if this one goes TU.
11/22/2004 (1:12 pm)
Trane: you are pretty much dead in the water, that is unless you know how to build hardware and write your own SERIAL->USB driver. The very few GAMEPORT->USB adapters that were included with some of the better selling joysticks during the brief migration to USB only work with the Joystick they were included with.Yeah it sucks, I canned my Cyberman 2 long time ago. I do have a Microsoft Sidewinder Strategic Commander controller that is similar that is USB, it was sold as a RTS controller but it works great for FPS, and is designed much like the Cyberman2 only better I think.
one good thing is the driver is solid, and it is cheap now if you can find them, they never really caught on with the RTS crowd it seems, I got mine for like $19,.99 US and that was at least a year and a half ago. I might just get another one so if this one goes TU.
#5
11/23/2004 (9:08 pm)
If you say it compared better than the Cyberman2, than that's good enough for me. Have you tried working it with modeling software? Quark, Blender, Milkshape... What about its usefulness in Torque? I just thought maybe a "3D mouse" approach would be a plus in those apps. What do you think?
#6
03/11/2007 (5:46 pm)
www.3dconnexion.com/ has a very cheap (<$100) 3D control out now (SpaceNavigator). I'd love to see it supported, it would be great for editing. I use it with Sketchup and Google Earth and it's terribly useful.
Jake
According to this article it looks like Labtec is already taking great strides with compatibility with common software and hardware interfacing! USB taking care of the universal hardware interfacing, hopefully someday in the near future there will emerge a universal software interfacing for input like OpenGL and OpenAL. It would be nice to use it on the Mac and Indrema as well.