@#$@# Eidos!

#1 They are corporations, they will do what's better for their bank balance, not what's good for their sub-companies or employees. I guess those are the perils of being bought by a bigger company or from game development itself.

#2 Read this a day or two ago on gamedev.net and there it says:

"IGN say they spoke to an Eidos representative who clarified that the staff reduction came with the end of development cycles. "Both Ion games have been completed and those who were hires specifically for those titles are now finished.""

So it sounds like the people who where laid off where specifically hired for the duration of the project. Personally I'm clueless about the situation but there sure seems to be a lot of outsourcing and shorter contract employments going on. It's a shame game developments is so damn much fun ;).

#3 Thanks for reminding me why I am in the middle of nowhere, worrying about making my $298 house mortgage.

#4 Wouldn't the world be a much better place if we treated others with respect?

#5 Maybe it's naive, but part of me still clings to the idea that Karma is going to bite them hard one of these days.

Eidos pushes things out the door sooner than they should (Both Thief and Deus Ex:IW should have had more time) and offer poor support.

I guess the bright side/silver lining of it is that if the Pros keep doing things like this it just creates more opportunities for Indies.

#6 Some guys who left Bungie recently (one of the founders among them) have started a new company. They are going to come up with ideas and money, and then sub-contract all the development work. I wonder if that'll work out. I wish I could find the article I read about it. I'd swear it was on Forbes' web edition.

#7 The problem with these kind of things, is that people NEVER hire "just for one game".

Or at least not openly.

Its the same thing that happened to the guys on the matrix game. Finish it up and get laid off.

Sucks, so you have to really be on your toes now when interviewing, make sure its a real gig or make sure you stiff them for more cash.

Sucks.. really.

#8 What is the big deal I have worked like this for years, when the project is done you are gone. What you think that they have some obligation to pay people when they don't need them? That is what killed the American car industry back in the 70's and they still have not recovered from it. Face it mid-level jobs are commondities. If you have top end skills you will always have work and have options, if you just want to show up get paid and go home you are in the wrong industry. I am sure these people knew that this was coming, I mean the project was over no more work, construction workers don't expect to keep getting paid once a building is completed and know that if there are no more buildings after the one they are working on they are going to have to find something else before the one they are working on is completed, and if they didn't then they learned a lesson.

#9 Jarrod: this isnt exactly the same kind of scenario like construction. Because there's no such thing as bonus, or overtime, or any of the benefits. If you know UP FRONT your going to get laid off at the end, you can plan accordingly (or pass), but most games companies do not work like that.

This isnt exactly a "jobbing" role where you can just be thrown onto the project and move from one to another, you spend a considerable amount of time getting used to the process at any given company, to have to throw that away is just wrong.

Another issue, is that its generally seen as a bad thing to leave a company during a project, if this becomes the norm, then there is no way it'll stay that way.

Basically, the industry will reap what it sows. If it starts doing this, the chances are game dev salaries will have to go up to match.

But lets face it, Ion and Eidos dont have a stellar reputation going into this, it just sucks to see guys I know out of work, even if its for a few weeks. They sweated blood on thier projects and got this kind of slap in the face in return.

#10 "when the project is done you are gone"

Not my style.

#11 From here

Quote:
We reached an Eidos representative who clarified that the staff reduction came with the end of development cycles. "Both Ion games have been completed and those who were hires specifically for those titles are now finished."

By Phil Carlisle

Quote:
The problem with these kind of things, is that people NEVER hire "just for one game".

If knew it or not, it seems they were hired for "just for one game" :-)

Quote:
Another issue, is that its generally seen as a bad thing to leave a company during a project,

This is always generally true of any programming job (game or not) Construction or other job where there are deadlines. It harms you more when its a small world.

On a personal thought or rather advice... anytime a project is nearing its end and there doesn't appear to be home for you on another project there is a good change you will get laid off.

#12

Quote:Basically, the industry will reap what it sows.

I think this is already happened - but the industry hasn't even recognized it yet because they know no other way.

We've got skyrocketing development costs right now. Part of this is because of rising demands on content, certainly. Tools & procedures haven't caught up with technology and consumer demand yet.

But there's another side of things. Right now, someone with five years of experience making games is an "old-timer" in the games industry... pretty dang senior, where in the rest of the programming world they'd be considered mid-level. There's this incredible turnover... game companies run their dev teams into the GROUND, and then find out four years later that the studios they bought for millions don't have any of the original staff anymore. They are mostly junior-level developers still learning their craft.

This is analogous to the Pacific air war in WWII. The skill and quality of pilots on the Japanese side steadily decreased during the war, while the American forces became more and more skilled. The reason is that the Japanese kept their elite pilots in the air, fighting, and eventually dying. The Americans rotated their aces back home to train the newer pilots, and make sure those entering the war were as well prepared for what they'd be facing as possible.

I know from my own experience that the difference between a good, skilled programmer and a less-skilled, less-experienced one can be more than 10x the productivity. While I can't speak for other roles on a game dev team, I expect that while the differences might not be quite so great, they are still very significant. Since the #1 costs in game development is salaries, it makes you think... could these companies be cutting their development costs by 2x, 3x, or even more by by doing what they could to retain and motivate their experienced teams instead of running them to the ground?

#13 I kinda agree with Jarrod, and if the facts presented in that article are true then maybe part of his statement was right. Like the interview stated, they were hired for just one game, and I think that they'd know that. Besides, I whole hardily stand by the company's decision. If you work for them, you are under their instruction for what needs to get done, if they say "your not doing anything, and we're losing money" and they decide that your gone, you cant blame the company. I've said it before and I'll say it again, They know how to run THEIR company better then you.

#14 I think Phil's point is that most of the game companies doing hiring don't sign contracts with you that say "you will be fired at completion." They just hire you and then without much warning, fire you off.

If this was hourly, till-completion work, I think a lot of game developers would be overjoyed.

Anyway, I won't comment more than this. I'm a relative n00b in the field of game development. :)

#15 I was more shook up about Dynamix and Looking Glass Studios...

But I hadn't expected such a cut from the ones who brought us Thief 3...the series that Looking Glass began...

#16 I don't know the specifics of the Eidos deal, but like Phil said hiring of people for just one game is rare. The quote from Eidos was: "those who were hired specifically for those titles are now finished". They were hired specifically for those titles - fine that's pretty common, "We'll hire you and put you on this project." Very rare - "We'll hire you for JUST this project, after that you're gone." Very few experienced developers would take the job if the employer were that up front about it unless there was some good money involved.

@Chris:

Quote:They know how to run THEIR company better then you

You haven't worked in the game industry have you? I'm not saying I could run a game company better, but many many game companies are outright mismanaged. If a company repeatedly has to lay off batches of 20-40 people, they are not managing it very well. Developers raise their eyebrows when this happens and try to avoid those companies when they are looking for a new job. What's more, layoffs like this seriously affect the moral of the people who stay, especially if they have a heavier load without increased salary as a result. It's a downward spiral.

If the rumors that Warren has left are true, then it's unlikely that those people were just contractors. There's more to this than Eidos is letting on.

#17 I really doubt these guys were contractors. Though it's possible. I know some smaller studios are moving to hiring contractors as a matter of survival. Which is good for indies.

But my guess is that some or all of these guys thought they were being hired in a permanent position.

Makes it pretty hard to build a solid team when you do that. If the rumors about Warren leaving are true, there may be quite the drain of senior people after this.

But it's still all rumors and speculation.

#18 Some guys who left Bungie recently (one of the founders among them) have started a new company. They are going to come up with ideas and money, and then sub-contract all the development work. I wonder if that'll work out. I wish I could find the article I read about it. I'd swear it was on Forbes' web edition

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=3382

#19

Quote:Eidos pushes things out the door sooner than they should (Both Thief and Deus Ex:IW should have had more time) and offer poor support.

There is only one reason that all these companies keep pushing game after game long before it should be out...

YOU IDIOTS KEEP BUYING THEM.


Nearly everyone here EXPECTS when they buy a game that the first thing they will have to do is patch it. You expect it, and you accept it. If more people would put the brakes on the PC's game industry's abuse of them, it would not be as common as it is now. The console industry has to get it right or they have to resend discs. That's not cheap at all. But now, not only can companies sell you faulty products, they have you convinced that "That's just the way it is" and you all believe it. Try to get your money back on software. What? You can't? They say it's a copy risk. You say.."But it doesn't work", they say..."We can give you another disc just like it."


Would you accept that treatment on a new TV or stereo?

Bottom line is, fight with your wallet, or quit complaining about buggy games, you'll need your strength for patching.

#20 Gonzo: What? Do you know how a game will turn out BEFORE you actually buy it? Cool!