TSE and shaders 3.0 !!!

#1 TSE supports 3.0 shaders out of the box. :)

#2 Isn't that what ATi said they wouldn't be supporting in their next round of 3d cards? ;)

#3 We also support the 2.b shader model, which ATI does support.

Personally, I think it's sort of lame they skipped 3.0 till their next generation of devices (assuming they don't wheel it out in some incremental upgrade). It would be nice to be able to use some of the VS3.0 stuff like texture reads on both manufacturers. :) I guess they'll be approximating 3.0 in their own special way...

Heaven forbid anyone should actually adhere to the specifications they write their hardware against. :)

#4 I can see both sides... as an ex-early-adopter (250 quid for a voodoo2?), I'm sick to death of buying the latest and greatest, only to have NOTHING support it (barring the crap free games in the box) for a good 12-18 months, I can see why they are saying 'we'll get PS2.0 and Dx9 just right, then move on', whereas Nvidia, who seemed to fumble the ball rather on PS performance, have run right on ahead saying 'we do it we do it!'

I notice that games actually started using pixel shaders only when cross platform Xbox and PC games started coming out. :)

#5 NO i dont think thats the case DJ. Their NV40 cards will obvisouly support 2.0 and before. but theres so much fast memory on these things, its gonna blow the fps through the roof (well compared to other average cards). They havnt got just sahder 3.0 support and no advancements, its a whole new architecure. And im sure you will be seeing some shader 3.0 implementation in TSE :p

#6 Fill rate becomes a non issue when you get Pixel Shaders. The old school 2/4/8 pass texture system is supplanted by a PS, thus making PS performance paramount, not sheer texture fillrate.

And, er, I'm sure it will have PS3.0 implementation. What's more important, tho, is will TSE compile PS support from 3.0 through to 1.0, or do I have to manually support the highest/lowest common denominator? No-one will have PS3.0 cards for a good 2, 3 years.

#7 That would depend on what you're doing. If you're doing a fancy custom shader... you will have to write a shader for each level of Pixel or Vertex shader you want to support.

Now that could be 2 levels for the top and the bottom, or it could be one for every single little revision. It's up to you.

#8 The shader generator stuff probably won't use VS3.0 off the bat. There aren't a lot of standardized effects that really benefit from it (you can do most everything you want in 2.0, really!) so the effort to reward those 5% of users that actually have systems that can run it is silly. :)

Of course, the shadergen is modular. It would be entirely possible to extend it to use 3.0 features as they become available and are useful.

#9 This chip gives me the chills!
Slam dunk Nvidia.

I'm watching the presentation now, waiting for Jay. ;)

That Lula demo is crazy, specifically her hair. Hair has been one of the hardest things to render ever due to it's complexity, specificly the lighting and the shadow. I want one. How much does it cost? ;)

#10 It probably costs about 80% of your frame time...

#11 What do you mean?

#12 Timothy asked 'how much does it cost?', meaning the card... tho I'm mucking about and point out that, as per usual, these amazing effects they showcase requires nearly the entire grunt of the video card and the CPU - ie it's just a tech demo, something that needs another 2 generations of video cards before you can do it in game.


Jokes are never as funny when you have to explain them. :)

#13 Yeah, that's the truth.


It's soooo awesome looking though. ;)

#14 Well, the reason for ati propably skipping 3.0 is that it wasn't developed in conjunction with them. 2.0 was developed in conjuction with ATI, that's why nvidia with a different architecture doesn't run well on 2.0.. 3.0 was developed in conjunction with nvidia which wanted a more universal approuch.. I know that my next card will be nvidia again, as my current ati 9800Pro card is just a pain in the butt, I had more problems with graphix glitches etc, than I ever had with my geforce2 gts..

#15 It looks the topic is quite old. The last reply is on May 2004.
Now it is 2006 already.

What i am wonderring is whether Torque Game Engine supports any hardware acceleration. (Question1)
What about Torque Shader Engine? (Q2)
Shader Model 3.0? (Q3)

I am using ATI X1600XT.

The evaluation of hardware acceleration will decide which engine to buy, Game Engine or Shader Engine.

Besides, what is the major difference in technical area for these two engines? (Q4)

#16 TSE is basically TGE + complete graphical overhaul, including supporting shaders, new terrain engine, etc.
As stated above, TSE supports SM3.0 out of the box, and i'd certaintly hope that both engines use some fashion of hardware accelleration(TSE moreso...i mean....geez, i cant think of it without XD )

Another thing to note, is to get TSE, you have to own TGE prior, so you're likely gunna buy TGE either way.(We're using TSE for The Third Reich, and while it's still EA, it's very nice)

If you're using the X1600XT, you've got alot of power to play with in TSE, so i'd reccomend going with that if you wanna do a next-gen sort of game.
TGE is great for current gen games that dont require or need the newer graphics, TSE's there for the pretty.

Hope that helps a bit,
-Jeff "Reno" Raab
-The Third Reich

#17 Except, what you call 'Next Gen' is now 'Current Gen' :p
TSE should be able to ctach up to 'Next Gen', but it nees lots of work! :)

#18 Westy, out of interest, what do you call next gen?

#19 VS/PS_4_0
GPU Relient Shading Model
GPU Geometry Shaders
etc.

#20 Man, I paid $400 US for my ATI X800 and it can't even handle the SM3.0 :(

I tell you what, I'm not upgrading any time soon!